Naim vs Devailet

Damon posted:

SNIP

I would not go back to Naim, or to tube gear (which I've also had). But I do not bash Naim or ridicule those who prefer it, either for the way it looks, or sounds, or the extensive upgrade path. In fact I'd recommend Naim to anyone in spite of my personal preference, because I think it is excellent equipment.

SNIP

Despite your last sentence above, I can't help feeling this sounds a little condescending. You have moved on to Devailet and that is your choice. But why do you feel the need to justify it on the Naim forum?

NigelB,

Condescending? Really? Hmmm, well, I'm sorry you feel that way. That was not my intent. One of the drawbacks of text is the absence of tone or inflection. But no matter. But perhaps re-read my post and highlight the sentence, ' In fact I'd recommend Naim to anyone in spite of my personal preference, because I think it is excellent equipment.' Or the last sentence of my post. 

I'm here because I post occasionally on this forum as I'm still a member. I'm not the only non-Naim owner who does so. And I think my post is relevant to the thread. And BTW, I've had correspondence elsewhere with jukemark which was totally cordial, so I don't feel that I'm barging in to this thread. 

There are plenty of threads and posts in this forum that discuss other manufacturers, both positively and negatively. I think it is part of most forums and ideally has nothing to do with justification. Or condescension. 

Finally, I post with my real name, and anyone can easily find me in the world. As such, I edit my posts as carefully as I can, and try not to say anything on forums that I would not say to someone face-to-face. 

Damon posted:

NigelB,

Condescending? Really? Hmmm, well, I'm sorry you feel that way. That was not my intent. One of the drawbacks of text is the absence of tone or inflection. But no matter. But perhaps re-read my post and highlight the sentence, ' In fact I'd recommend Naim to anyone in spite of my personal preference, because I think it is excellent equipment.' Or the last sentence of my post. 

I'm here because I post occasionally on this forum as I'm still a member. I'm not the only non-Naim owner who does so. And I think my post is relevant to the thread. And BTW, I've had correspondence elsewhere with jukemark which was totally cordial, so I don't feel that I'm barging in to this thread. 

There are plenty of threads and posts in this forum that discuss other manufacturers, both positively and negatively. I think it is part of most forums and ideally has nothing to do with justification. Or condescension. 

Finally, I post with my real name, and anyone can easily find me in the world. As such, I edit my posts as carefully as I can, and try not to say anything on forums that I would not say to someone face-to-face. 

Hi Damon, I am happy that you are happy with your Devialet setup. And I think you touched the kernel of the topic. You like the sound signature of Devialet. I have a friend who prefers the Linn signature over the Naim one, and another one who also owns Devialet. As we all like to concentrate on different aspects of reproduction we all land at different choices. I respect that and have also made myself choice and I am happy with that, while I am open and hear sometimes things which make me wonder if I would make different choices when I would start all over again or not.....

I appreciate that you have contributed your view, as it enriches the discussion.

nigelb posted:

Damon posted:

SNIP

I would not go back to Naim, or to tube gear (which I've also had). But I do not bash Naim or ridicule those who prefer it, either for the way it looks, or sounds, or the extensive upgrade path. In fact I'd recommend Naim to anyone in spite of my personal preference, because I think it is excellent equipment.

SNIP

Despite your last sentence above, I can't help feeling this sounds a little condescending. You have moved on to Devailet and that is your choice. But why do you feel the need to justify it on the Naim forum?

I have to say I found the post to be interesting and informative, consistent with the thread and not at all condescending.

From this forum I have a shortlist of equipment I would be very interested in hearing out of curiosity or in the hopefully unlikely event of getting an urge to change, equipment failure or loss, or a major lottery win. This post isn't the reason for including Devialet, however the information in it does reinforce my interest as my aim in a system is realism, and interestingly although this post doesn't use that word, it is clear that to Damon it does achieve that better than alternatives he has heard, including Naim. This tends to reinforce the impression I already had, given Naim's apparent (from everything I've read) tendency to emphasise certain aspects of the sound in its pursuit of a toe tapping trigger makes me wary - though I do find aspects of Naim's power amp design to be interesting and I would include NAP 300 or 500 in that shortlist.

jukemark posted:

Guys I need some views...
I am about to change my Naim 272/250DR combo for a 220pro, hopefully to get a smoother sound. Speakers are PMC 25.24's, anyone have any thoughts?
Thanks.

If you want to change then change it and will see the result. You don't need to discuss much here.

If you are having brightness / harshness problems...

1   first look to your room acoustics, it may simply need a bit more acoustic damping.

2   Are your speakers 'toed in', if so move them so they fire straight across the room.  Some speakers are designed to work with 0° toe in angle, and sound bright and hard when 'toed in'.

These options are a lot cheaper than an electronics swap.

Eleven days ago, the OP stated that they would persevere with the 272. I mentioned before the thought of trying other speakers. There seem to be quite a few people having issues with the top end of the new PMC 25 series. Depending on how the period of perseverance is going it may yet be worth trying other speakers. There's no guarantee the Devialet would remedy the issue. 

It would be interesting to hear the OP's latest thoughts. 

nigelb posted:

Damon posted:

SNIP

I would not go back to Naim, or to tube gear (which I've also had). But I do not bash Naim or ridicule those who prefer it, either for the way it looks, or sounds, or the extensive upgrade path. In fact I'd recommend Naim to anyone in spite of my personal preference, because I think it is excellent equipment.

SNIP

Despite your last sentence above, I can't help feeling this sounds a little condescending. You have moved on to Devailet and that is your choice. But why do you feel the need to justify it on the Naim forum?

i am mostly agree with you, and reading the profile of damon there is no more naim stuff left inside. So i don't see why continue to post on naim forum.  Some prefer also linn vs naim and it is also tiring when these people try to convince that linn is better than naim....or devialet now...   sorry for damon, but there is devialet chat for this.

Keler Pierre posted:

i am mostly agree with you, and reading the profile of damon there is no more naim stuff left inside. So i don't see why continue to post on naim forum.  Some prefer also linn vs naim and it is also tiring when these people try to convince that linn is better than naim....or devialet now...   sorry for damon, but there is devialet chat for this.

 

The chap's just stating an opinion - the OP did ask the question...

Whats wrong to hear from an old friend who left us for whatq he thinks is a better choice?

Ok he got a bad test of stereo, ok hearing is not so good but still��

Jokes aside

it is naim forum 99%, we can tolarate %1 

the thing i dont get it in this forum is the lp12 cult which is as strong as naim, it is a good deck ok but there are many good brands offering a better/similar performance and value, design as well! 

brinkmann, dr ficker, transrotor, clearaudio....

maybe it is a british brotherhood or something

There is a life outside lp12 and rega as well as naim

Keler Pierre posted:

nigelb posted:

Damon posted:

SNIP

I would not go back to Naim, or to tube gear (which I've also had). But I do not bash Naim or ridicule those who prefer it, either for the way it looks, or sounds, or the extensive upgrade path. In fact I'd recommend Naim to anyone in spite of my personal preference, because I think it is excellent equipment.

SNIP

Despite your last sentence above, I can't help feeling this sounds a little condescending. You have moved on to Devailet and that is your choice. But why do you feel the need to justify it on the Naim forum?

i am mostly agree with you, and reading the profile of damon there is no more naim stuff left inside. So i don't see why continue to post on naim forum.  Some prefer also linn vs naim and it is also tiring when these people try to convince that linn is better than naim....or devialet now...   sorry for damon, but there is devialet chat for this.

For what it's worth, I think Damon's post was totally appropriate and most useful. He was not pushing Devialet, just offering his experience. James N has no Naim boxes (only a Naim wire) nor does Innocent Bystander and a number of others. Do you want to throw them off the Forum in some form of Hifi ethnic cleansing? We should celebrate diversity. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Eleven days ago, the OP stated that they would persevere with the 272. I mentioned before the thought of trying other speakers. There seem to be quite a few people having issues with the top end of the new PMC 25 series. Depending on how the period of perseverance is going it may yet be worth trying other speakers. There's no guarantee the Devialet would remedy the issue. 

It would be interesting to hear the OP's latest thoughts. 

My last system was a Dev200 with PMC 20.26's...it was much smoother and easier to listen to, but also in a different room!

So many variables.

I am at the point of selling it all and having a break then try again in a while.

I used to be happy sitting all evening listening to music, at the moment with this system I am lucky to do an hour!

I dont think its the room as I have a separate AV system and that sounds very smooth. I do have a sneaking suspicion that the speakers may be to blame...but they image so well, and thats important to me. And also nice tight and deep bottom end...

Thats why I was going to swap the amp, hopefully to calm the top end down a bit. 

Its mostly the same across all sources, they are Sony 9000ES SACD, Clearaudio Concept TT and Roon via Pi-digi+ playing Tidal/hi-res from Qobuz.

Going out now, but I will be back on in the morning.

As recommended, I will try aiming the speakers straight ahead tomorrow.

Thanks for everyones input.

Mark

Do let us know how you get on. And if you fancy listening to a 272/250 that (to me anyway) sounds ok, do let me know. We are between Portsmouth and Chichester. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

nigelb posted:

Damon posted:

SNIP

I would not go back to Naim, or to tube gear (which I've also had). But I do not bash Naim or ridicule those who prefer it, either for the way it looks, or sounds, or the extensive upgrade path. In fact I'd recommend Naim to anyone in spite of my personal preference, because I think it is excellent equipment.

SNIP

Despite your last sentence above, I can't help feeling this sounds a little condescending. You have moved on to Devailet and that is your choice. But why do you feel the need to justify it on the Naim forum?

i am mostly agree with you, and reading the profile of damon there is no more naim stuff left inside. So i don't see why continue to post on naim forum.  Some prefer also linn vs naim and it is also tiring when these people try to convince that linn is better than naim....or devialet now...   sorry for damon, but there is devialet chat for this.

For what it's worth, I think Damon's post was totally appropriate and most useful. He was not pushing Devialet, just offering his experience. James N has no Naim boxes (only a Naim wire) nor does Innocent Bystander and a number of others. Do you want to throw them off the Forum in some form of Hifi ethnic cleansing? We should celebrate diversity. 

i understood, but with my poor english, that damon was pushing a little too much the devialet stuff.  With Devialet , all was so more musical and better than naim for damon....Sorry but i don't share this . Devialet is very HIFI staff and it is a shame that this company pretends that their phantom speakers are the best speakers in the world!     But i have nothing against Damon, it is just my point of view....

Now I want one.

The classic naim range is classic, will hold its value and it's looks in next 10 year can anybody say that in today's most hifi designs and brands

They all will age ugly and look like back to the future car someday...and naims will be 50s mustang

Emre posted:

The classic naim range is classic, will hold its value and it's looks in next 10 year can anybody say that in today's most hifi designs and brands

They all will age ugly and look like back to the future car someday...and naims will be 50s mustang

True to a degree, but I dont keep anything that long to worry about it!

Hungryhalibut posted:

Do let us know how you get on. And if you fancy listening to a 272/250 that (to me anyway) sounds ok, do let me know. We are between Portsmouth and Chichester. 

That is very kind of you, I may take you up on that...

Hello again, naim vs devialet...naim win...it's something that is mesurable, but isn't really great to compare apples with peaches, class ab vs class d, it's more what you like to hear and very important is how is implemented. Once again, if u like devialet go for it, it's your money.

Adi,

Without headings, context, or a citation the table you posted above reads entirely conjected to me.

I will agree, however, with your statement "it's more what you like to hear and very important is how is implemented"

Furthermore, Naim sells gear that use class D amplification.

jukemark posted:

Emre posted:

The classic naim range is classic, will hold its value and it's looks in next 10 year can anybody say that in today's most hifi designs and brands

They all will age ugly and look like back to the future car someday...and naims will be 50s mustang

True to a degree, but I dont keep anything that long to worry about it!

Why not keep something that long if it is good?

(BTW to me, the 'back to the future' De Lorean looks better than a Mustang, even though now dated!)

Keler Pierre posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

nigelb posted:

Damon posted:

SNIP

I would not go back to Naim, or to tube gear (which I've also had). But I do not bash Naim or ridicule those who prefer it, either for the way it looks, or sounds, or the extensive upgrade path. In fact I'd recommend Naim to anyone in spite of my personal preference, because I think it is excellent equipment.

SNIP

Despite your last sentence above, I can't help feeling this sounds a little condescending. You have moved on to Devailet and that is your choice. But why do you feel the need to justify it on the Naim forum?

i am mostly agree with you, and reading the profile of damon there is no more naim stuff left inside. So i don't see why continue to post on naim forum.  Some prefer also linn vs naim and it is also tiring when these people try to convince that linn is better than naim....or devialet now...   sorry for damon, but there is devialet chat for this.

For what it's worth, I think Damon's post was totally appropriate and most useful. He was not pushing Devialet, just offering his experience. James N has no Naim boxes (only a Naim wire) nor does Innocent Bystander and a number of others. Do you want to throw them off the Forum in some form of Hifi ethnic cleansing? We should celebrate diversity. 

i understood, but with my poor english, that damon was pushing a little too much the devialet stuff.  With Devialet , all was so more musical and better than naim for damon....Sorry but i don't share this . Devialet is very HIFI staff and it is a shame that this company pretends that their phantom speakers are the best speakers in the world!     But i have nothing against Damon, it is just my point of view....

FWIW I do not own Phantoms. However I 'treated' my extremely sceptical sons to a day at the Bristol HiFi show where they had a good roll around the aisles at comparisons between £20 and £2,000 cables. Nevertheless, they have 'good' ears and I have used them as sounding boards when indulging myself over the years. They both thought the Phantoms were the best sounding things at the show at the  price. We could not get to the Uniti demonstration at an appropriate time as the demos were all full. They also thought the Phantoms were ugly as sin!

Keler Pierre posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

nigelb posted:

Damon posted:

SNIP

I would not go back to Naim, or to tube gear (which I've also had). But I do not bash Naim or ridicule those who prefer it, either for the way it looks, or sounds, or the extensive upgrade path. In fact I'd recommend Naim to anyone in spite of my personal preference, because I think it is excellent equipment.

SNIP

Despite your last sentence above, I can't help feeling this sounds a little condescending. You have moved on to Devailet and that is your choice. But why do you feel the need to justify it on the Naim forum?

i am mostly agree with you, and reading the profile of damon there is no more naim stuff left inside. So i don't see why continue to post on naim forum.  Some prefer also linn vs naim and it is also tiring when these people try to convince that linn is better than naim....or devialet now...   sorry for damon, but there is devialet chat for this.

For what it's worth, I think Damon's post was totally appropriate and most useful. He was not pushing Devialet, just offering his experience. James N has no Naim boxes (only a Naim wire) nor does Innocent Bystander and a number of others. Do you want to throw them off the Forum in some form of Hifi ethnic cleansing? We should celebrate diversity. 

i understood, but with my poor english, that damon was pushing a little too much the devialet stuff.  With Devialet , all was so more musical and better than naim for damon....Sorry but i don't share this . Devialet is very HIFI staff and it is a shame that this company pretends that their phantom speakers are the best speakers in the world!     But i have nothing against Damon, it is just my point of view....

A lot of shooting the messenger going on here. It is said people react most vehemently to statements they believe just might be true. 

There is a world beyond Naim and strange as it may seem to some members, people can prefer other brands without becoming pariahs on here by letting in some of their fresh air now and again. 

probably a misquote but

there is more in heaven and earth, Horatio, than is dreamt of in your philosophy 

( mind you I'm  very happy with my Naim and have no intention of heading towards Deliavet and know of a few that moved the opposite way)

.sjb

Hungryhalibut posted:

For what it's worth, I think Damon's post was totally appropriate and most useful. He was not pushing Devialet, just offering his experience. James N has no Naim boxes (only a Naim wire) nor does Innocent Bystander and a number of others. Do you want to throw them off the Forum in some form of Hifi ethnic cleansing? We should celebrate diversity. 

Love all these witty responses.

i am vehement sometimes and regret 5 minutes after. I don't like devialet company nor the sound, but i have not the right to discredit other who don't share my opinion. You are all right .

If Damon believes devialet is more musical than naim, he has the right and freedom to think that.