vinyl buying frustrations

Hi,

Yes quality control in some plants seems to be appalling and I'm not sure about the quality of the vinyl they use.

But I have some stunningly good modern pressings - Jeff Beck at Ronnies, the double album of Eric Clapton  Unplugged.

It takes perseverance - incidentally I tend not to buy from Amazon but use the more specialist suppliers - Diverse are very good chaps and you can talk to them too!!

Good luck.

Lindsay

Hi There, I also have been using Diverse for many years and although not the cheapest whenever a problem has occurred a replacement is sent without a problem.

i have over the years had problems with a particular record for example Scott Walkers Tilt. In the end after 3 different copies I gave up. I suspect poor quality control at pressing plant which meant the whole batch was faulty.

i don't think it's got any worse recently. I enjoy buying second hand records from various sources but then you really need access to a decent record cleaner.

Enjoy your new hobby. 

Prem.

Thanks ... whats a suitable record cleaner?

Back in my LP buying years every now and then there would be a duff one - I recall warped, eccentric hole a d sound quality issues. Latter sometimes better on replacement, sometimes not, and I seem to recall with one record changing three times. 

I wish I had known the importance of having a good record cleaner when I had a collection, because, based on responses on this forum when I was once discussing deterioration causing increasing surface noise and attributing it to wear, it seems possible that it was just due to increasing ingrained dust/dirt despite my normal attention to cleaning by hand before every play.

Well I'm no expert but I have had a VPI 16.5 vacuum cleaner for approx 15 years and it does the job well. There are various other makes around and I guess improvements during the last 15 years. I paid about £450 for mine but I suspect they cost more now. I have over 3,000 records so a worthwhile investment for me. If you only have a few records there are places that will clean records and charge per item which may be a cheaper option.

Prem

The quality of new vinyl from all sources is erratic.  I've recently had some great new pressings and several poor quality ones . . . Returning several records to Amazon and Diverse because they were warped.  Apparently this is caused by pulling the vinyl off the pressing machine before it has cooled down.

I think there's a opening for a vinyl quality checking service from companies like Diverse (Amazon could never do this), just put the the record on a turntable and check its flat and free of visual scratches. . . Of course, 'back in the day' a visual check was normally done when you bought the vinyl from your local record shop. . .

As a fellow vinyl returnee of 50-something, I have to agree with SJW as the problem seems worse than the first time round - very frustrating.

sjw posted:

Thanks ... whats a suitable record cleaner?

I have the Audio Desk Systeme Vinyl Cleaner Pro ultrasonic cleaner. Very expensive, but produces superb results, both on new and secondhand vinyl. It's like having an upgraded TT/cart or a whole new record collection.

The dark side of the vinyl resurgence is that pressing plants are running overcapacity. Also much of the equipment used to press vinyl is rather old. I'd say this has led to lots of defects and long, long lead times as plants strain to keep pace with demand.

That said, with many more labels pressing vinyl for quality rather than sales I think the overall quality of vinyl today is much greater than I remember it being as a kid.

Naijeru posted:

The dark side of the vinyl resurgence is that pressing plants are running overcapacity. Also much of the equipment used to press vinyl is rather old. I'd say this has led to lots of defects and long, long lead times as plants strain to keep pace with demand.

That said, with many more labels pressing vinyl for quality rather than sales I think the overall quality of vinyl today is much greater than I remember it being as a kid.

if you want to find mint or near mint records, original pressings or reissues, go to DISCOGS. It is the best worldwide site for lps. You choose the album, the year of pressing, the state of media and cover conditions...  it is a fabulous site and a choice you will never find elsewhere.

Mind you it is wonderful when you replicate a CD with a well pressed vinyl version and you get to hear how good the music really was.   Just loving EC's Unplugged. 

Keler Pierre posted:

Naijeru posted:

The dark side of the vinyl resurgence is that pressing plants are running overcapacity. Also much of the equipment used to press vinyl is rather old. I'd say this has led to lots of defects and long, long lead times as plants strain to keep pace with demand.

That said, with many more labels pressing vinyl for quality rather than sales I think the overall quality of vinyl today is much greater than I remember it being as a kid.

if you want to find mint or near mint records, original pressings or reissues, go to DISCOGS. It is the best worldwide site for lps. You choose the album, the year of pressing, the state of media and cover conditions...  it is a fabulous site and a choice you will never find elsewhere.

I think it all rather depends on the honesty of the vendor. Honest descriptions are essential for that site to work. I tried that site, buying a record which was described as 'excellent' and a 'minor scuff' on the sleeve. When I received it the disc was inserted between the outer and inner sleeve, the outer sleeve was ripped, the inner scrunched up and the record deeply scratched. I didn't even bother cleaning it, but took it straight to the charity shop. I gave accurate feedback and the seller tried to persuade me to delete feedback for a refund. I decided it ws more important for other buyers to know about this charlatan than to receive a refund. Discogs, like eBay: caveat emptor. 

I wouldn't do without the record clamp on my michel turntable for warped 180gm vinyl. I wish they'd stick with the old thickness.

The warped vinyl I have is most often warped towards the outer edge, typically from the press release and goes away within the first track. I can't see where a clamp applied to the label area does much to remediate that. As for 180-g vinyl - I find it a marketing gimmick. All the added thickness can do is throw off the optimal VTA and I see no reason it offers any improvement in SQ versus a well-pressed 120-140-g LP.

joerand posted:

All the added thickness can do is throw off the optimal VTA and I see no reason it offers any improvement in SQ versus a well-pressed 120-140-g LP.

Agreed.

Clive B posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Naijeru posted:

The dark side of the vinyl resurgence is that pressing plants are running overcapacity. Also much of the equipment used to press vinyl is rather old. I'd say this has led to lots of defects and long, long lead times as plants strain to keep pace with demand.

That said, with many more labels pressing vinyl for quality rather than sales I think the overall quality of vinyl today is much greater than I remember it being as a kid.

if you want to find mint or near mint records, original pressings or reissues, go to DISCOGS. It is the best worldwide site for lps. You choose the album, the year of pressing, the state of media and cover conditions...  it is a fabulous site and a choice you will never find elsewhere.

I think it all rather depends on the honesty of the vendor. Honest descriptions are essential for that site to work. I tried that site, buying a record which was described as 'excellent' and a 'minor scuff' on the sleeve. When I received it the disc was inserted between the outer and inner sleeve, the outer sleeve was ripped, the inner scrunched up and the record deeply scratched. I didn't even bother cleaning it, but took it straight to the charity shop. I gave accurate feedback and the seller tried to persuade me to delete feedback for a refund. I decided it ws more important for other buyers to know about this charlatan than to receive a refund. Discogs, like eBay: caveat emptor. 

yes it sometimes happens, and i send it back.  But on ten years i perhaps sent back ten on 300 lps...

The Strat (Fender) posted:

joerand posted:

All the added thickness can do is throw off the optimal VTA and I see no reason it offers any improvement in SQ versus a well-pressed 120-140-g LP.

Agreed.

Oops...gotta get my sh!t together. Posting on an iPad after too many cervesas on the beach in Ixtapa is tricky business.

Completely agree regarding the "heavy vinyl pressing" issue. They should have just stayed with the 120/140 gm pressings. 

Three weeks ago, I got an Okki Nokki RCM and I can't believe the difference it has made. So much so, that I don't think I would even bother with vinyl without it. 

I noticed that I had been spending less time listening to vinyl as time went on. I thought it was due to my taste in music changing as I aged. While that's true to a point, I now find myself listening more to vinyl than cd. I have rediscovered my jazz collection, and although classical music is still my great passion, I have achieved a better balance between the two genres. All because of a vacuum cleaner.

BB

Naijeru posted:

The dark side of the vinyl resurgence is that pressing plants are running overcapacity. Also much of the equipment used to press vinyl is rather old. I'd say this has led to lots of defects and long, long lead times as plants strain to keep pace with demand.

 

Yup - agreed. I've pretty much had it with new vinyl. QC is generally poor with mass-market releases for the reasons stated above. The music industry has realised that there is a lot more profit in vinyl than downloads, so they are keen to get product out as quickly as possible. The existing pressing plants must be struggling with demand - to do it properly. And I wonder if recycled vinyl is now used. It would explain why a lot of new pressings are unacceptably noisy and/or warped.

On a positive note; I use Discogs for old vinyl and concur with the opinion of the poster above. Condition is generally accurately described and I am normally happy with my purchases.

John.

Welcome back to the physical world!  Vibrations and stuff like that mean a lot with rekkid players I've also learned recently.  Before when I had some skips my turntable was not set up properly and my weights and balances were off.   Where is your deck sitting?  Is it near speakers? All sorts of realistic physical things can get ya...compared to digital its like setting up a Rube Goldberg machine...once its set right its good, though. 

Nowadays I rarely ever have any skips...since I got the Rega RP6 and the Vulcan Tiger Paw wall mount...it has to be a bad record for sure then.  Only specific records I own skip in the same spot every time.

I do get records with bumps, 180gram, etc...it angers me.  But in my opinion most 180g when cleaned up is black quiet compared to older, thinner, flimsier used records.  That said Pink Floyd - The Final Cut 2016 I just got is flat as can be and quiet and beautiful...my newer 180g, when they are good are really good.

It took me a few months of hustling, buying, returning wall mounts and decks until I found the sweet spot and eliminated all issues with vibrations and stuff.

For RCM I like my Loricraft, and it's ancient, but still good.

don't think ive had a warp record for years my issue is that some are digital masters. phil Collins highlight the issue

Tried Diverse... Sadly, it really wasn't a good experience at all! 

A lot of fuss and bickering by quite long emails from them over the return of a S/H album which came with a large surface scratch/scuff. They quoted  "record collector" grading guidelines which they don't refer to at all on the site until after they event . It certainly didn't seem to be in Very good condition to me. Also 2/3 of an order wasn't in stock after 17 days when it was quoted as  4-7 days and they seemed pissed when I cancelled.Yes there was Easter but I'd lost interest as it was nowhere near the quoted timescale.

I just don't have a habit of moaning on forums and tend to praise really good service / helpful dealers etc -such as  Brian and Trevor's/Ripcaster/Audio T Reading , but in the case of Diverse........ NEVER , EVER AGAIN!