Naim Mu-So Buffering is a complete pain

Hi,

Well, we'll help you to try to identify your issue and if possible find you a solution however with any streaming there will always be some users who have issues that cannot be worked around - for example my partner has a brand new build house in Weymouth and it simply isn't possible for me to get lossless TIDAL working there without dropouts and the only people that will be able to fix that will be BT getting the service there sorted... :-)

I don't remember seeing any emails from your registered email address on here but I see that you state that you know that your Devolos / WiFi aren't the issue - so if you connect your Mu-so to your router via a direct ethernet cable connection do you have the same issue?

Does the issue get better / worse dependent upon time of day?

Do lower bitrate stations suffer the same way as higher bitrate stations?

Do Spofify and TIDAL suffer the same issues?

Best

Phil

When I first got my Qb for the kitchen it wouldn't play BBC radio reliably over a wireless connection, despite being only four metres from the router. As soon as I got a wire - no problem. The general view of Ethernet over mains is that it is the spawn of the devil, so I wouldn't be too confident in its efficacy. 

Phil Harris posted:

Hi,

Well, we'll help you to try to identify your issue and if possible find you a solution however with any streaming there will always be some users who have issues that cannot be worked around - for example my partner has a brand new build house in Weymouth and it simply isn't possible for me to get lossless TIDAL working there without dropouts and the only people that will be able to fix that will be BT getting the service there sorted... :-)

I don't remember seeing any emails from your registered email address on here but I see that you state that you know that your Devolos / WiFi aren't the issue - so if you connect your Mu-so to your router via a direct ethernet cable connection do you have the same issue?

Does the issue get better / worse dependent upon time of day?

Do lower bitrate stations suffer the same way as higher bitrate stations?

Do Spofify and TIDAL suffer the same issues?

Best

Phil

Thanks for taking the time to reply Phil,

As per my post, Tidal works just fine on both Linn KDS and Mu-So. It is not a BT issue as I have said. On both wireless and wired the Mu-so buffers far too often. My Linn KDS, Roberts Stream and Apple products work a treat.

I have no issues watching catch up Tv on my iPad which uses far more bandwidth etc than a simple radio music stream.

I will ask Phil at Cymbiosis to again send the full details to Naim. I'm fed up with this and in the kitchen will revert back to my iPad streaming  Tidal and radio into my Ruark R4 (which is how I run music in my dining room btw). At least i can enjoy Johnny Walker in peace at the weekend.

I have in the past received replies from Naim direct and on the forum, blaming everything down to my inside leg measurement  rather than address the issue, which is why I have posted this time. I love there Mu-So sound and have been a Naim user for 25 years previously, which is why I purchased one. Doesn't sound so good when its switched off though.

I have had the unit wired into the devolo right next to my KDS. The KDS runs perfectly and the Mu-So buffers.

King Regards

Hungryhalibut posted:

When I first got my Qb for the kitchen it wouldn't play BBC radio reliably over a wireless connection, despite being only four metres from the router. As soon as I got a wire - no problem. The general view of Ethernet over mains is that it is the spawn of the devil, so I wouldn't be too confident in its efficacy. 

My Linn KDS and Roberts iStream radio love the spawn of the devil.

Are you really happy that your £1000 unit is shite over the wireless when its designed to operate like that?

ttfn

RR

Phil Harris posted:

Hi,

Well, we'll help you to try to identify your issue and if possible find you a solution however with any streaming there will always be some users who have issues that cannot be worked around - for example my partner has a brand new build house in Weymouth and it simply isn't possible for me to get lossless TIDAL working there without dropouts and the only people that will be able to fix that will be BT getting the service there sorted... :-)

I don't remember seeing any emails from your registered email address on here but I see that you state that you know that your Devolos / WiFi aren't the issue - so if you connect your Mu-so to your router via a direct ethernet cable connection do you have the same issue?

Does the issue get better / worse dependent upon time of day?

Do lower bitrate stations suffer the same way as higher bitrate stations?

Do Spofify and TIDAL suffer the same issues?

Best

Phil

Sorry Phil,

Forgot to add.

Whenever it buffers I check my internet connection, speed and ping rate. All are fine

Saturday/Sunday mornings and early evenings for Radio 2 are terrible for the Mu-so(wired and wireless) but fine for the KDS.

Radio Paradise also on 320kbs like Radio2 HD in generally fine.

Are Naim coping with BBC coding?

Does Naim firmware cope well with any latency? Is the way it reads "digital packets" as per industry norm or different to Linn/Roberts/Apple?

I stream files from my NAS to the Mu-So no problem at all (both in wired and wireless mode)

Thanks

Red Rooster posted:

Phil Harris posted:

Hi,

Well, we'll help you to try to identify your issue and if possible find you a solution however with any streaming there will always be some users who have issues that cannot be worked around - for example my partner has a brand new build house in Weymouth and it simply isn't possible for me to get lossless TIDAL working there without dropouts and the only people that will be able to fix that will be BT getting the service there sorted... :-)

I don't remember seeing any emails from your registered email address on here but I see that you state that you know that your Devolos / WiFi aren't the issue - so if you connect your Mu-so to your router via a direct ethernet cable connection do you have the same issue?

Does the issue get better / worse dependent upon time of day?

Do lower bitrate stations suffer the same way as higher bitrate stations?

Do Spofify and TIDAL suffer the same issues?

Best

Phil

Thanks for taking the time to reply Phil,

As per my post, Tidal works just fine on both Linn KDS and Mu-So. It is not a BT issue as I have said. On both wireless and wired the Mu-so buffers far too often. My Linn KDS, Roberts Stream and Apple products work a treat.

I have no issues watching catch up Tv on my iPad which uses far more bandwidth etc than a simple radio music stream.

I will ask Phil at Cymbiosis to again send the full details to Naim. I'm fed up with this and in the kitchen will revert back to my iPad streaming  Tidal and radio into my Ruark R4 (which is how I run music in my dining room btw). At least i can enjoy Johnny Walker in peace at the weekend.

I have in the past received replies from Naim direct and on the forum, blaming everything down to my inside leg measurement  rather than address the issue, which is why I have posted this time. I love there Mu-So sound and have been a Naim user for 25 years previously, which is why I purchased one. Doesn't sound so good when its switched off though.

I have had the unit wired into the devolo right next to my KDS. The KDS runs perfectly and the Mu-So buffers.

King Regards

Hi,

I understand that you are frustrated and I'm happy for you to mail me directly but I really do need to find out the answers to the specific questions so that I can try to help you ... 

If you connect your Mu-so to your router via a direct ethernet cable connection (not via Ethernet Over Mains) do you have the same issue?

Does the issue get better / worse dependent upon time of day?

Do lower bitrate stations suffer the same way as higher bitrate stations?

Just because one streaming service works for you that doesn't mean they all will so we do need to identify the cause of your issues.

Best

Phil

Red Rooster posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

When I first got my Qb for the kitchen it wouldn't play BBC radio reliably over a wireless connection, despite being only four metres from the router. As soon as I got a wire - no problem. The general view of Ethernet over mains is that it is the spawn of the devil, so I wouldn't be too confident in its efficacy. 

My Linn KDS and Roberts iStream radio love the spawn of the devil.

Are you really happy that your £1000 unit is shite over the wireless when its designed to operate like that?

ttfn

 

RR

Hi Red Rooster,

Again, another reply that could be seen as agressive to someone that is trying to help ... please try to be respectful.

Best

Phil

Red Rooster posted:

Sorry Phil,

 

Forgot to add.

Whenever it buffers I check my internet connection, speed and ping rate. All are fine

Can I ask how you are checking your internet connection speed and ping rate back to the specific streaming servers? If you are relying on one of the recognised "Speedtest.net" type services then these are testing to specific servers which are generally prioritised by ISPs to make their numbers look good - not generally to the servers that are being used by streaming service providers...

Red Rooster posted:

Saturday/Sunday mornings and early evenings for Radio 2 are terrible for the Mu-so(wired and wireless) but fine for the KDS.

This would tend to indicate that your issues are being exacerbated by a local infrastructure that is becoming saturated in the usual "busy times" for internet usage and it could well be that traffic shaping may be being applied however this is unlikely...

Red Rooster posted:

Radio Paradise also on 320kbs like Radio2 HD in generally fine.

So generally both these services are fine but have issues at times? What if you chose a lower bitrate version of those streams?

Red Rooster posted:

Are Naim coping with BBC coding?

Yes...

Red Rooster posted:

Does Naim firmware cope well with any latency?

With any streaming device there will always be a point where the device cannot buffer past the host network connections latency and this will vary between devices.

Red Rooster posted:

Is the way it reads "digital packets" as per industry norm or different to Linn/Roberts/Apple?

I don't understand the actual question you are asking here - we don't use a proprietary way of accessing online services.

Red Rooster posted:

I stream files from my NAS to the Mu-So no problem at all (both in wired and wireless mode)

Which would tend to tie in with the statement above that there is more likely to be an issue outside of your network that is causing the problem.

Best

Phil

Initially I got a lot of troubles of getting Tidal even over network cable. I always thought it had to do with the fact that it was a secondary connection via electricity. Since the last updates on Firmware I am in good condition and haven't faced any issues anymore. However I will always avoid connections through the air.

Phil Harris posted:

Red Rooster posted:

Sorry Phil,

 

Forgot to add.

Whenever it buffers I check my internet connection, speed and ping rate. All are fine

Can I ask how you are checking your internet connection speed and ping rate back to the specific streaming servers? If you are relying on one of the recognised "Speedtest.net" type services then these are testing to specific servers which are generally prioritised by ISPs to make their numbers look good - not generally to the servers that are being used by streaming service providers...

Red Rooster posted:

Saturday/Sunday mornings and early evenings for Radio 2 are terrible for the Mu-so(wired and wireless) but fine for the KDS.

This would tend to indicate that your issues are being exacerbated by a local infrastructure that is becoming saturated in the usual "busy times" for internet usage and it could well be that traffic shaping may be being applied however this is unlikely...

Red Rooster posted:

Radio Paradise also on 320kbs like Radio2 HD in generally fine.

So generally both these services are fine but have issues at times? What if you chose a lower bitrate version of those streams?

Red Rooster posted:

Are Naim coping with BBC coding?

Yes...

Red Rooster posted:

Does Naim firmware cope well with any latency?

With any streaming device there will always be a point where the device cannot buffer past the host network connections latency and this will vary between devices.

Red Rooster posted:

Is the way it reads "digital packets" as per industry norm or different to Linn/Roberts/Apple?

I don't understand the actual question you are asking here - we don't use a proprietary way of accessing online services.

Red Rooster posted:

I stream files from my NAS to the Mu-So no problem at all (both in wired and wireless mode)

Which would tend to tie in with the statement above that there is more likely to be an issue outside of your network that is causing the problem.

Best

Phil

Hi Phil,

I will try and work my way through al this. Looking back at previous forum post back to 2015, seems a lot of people raised this issue then. 

Naims web site page for the Mu-So has the lead statement that it is Naim's first wireless music system etc etc. I then get told it needs wired connection. You can see why I'm a bit miffed can't you!

Kind Regards

RR

all my probs were solved when I installed the latest bt router for wireless application,even the muso qb works on a table in garden.  no drop outs at all any were in the house.  one of the main reasons for the qb is for ability of moving it aroud.  my main sytsem is wired ...By the way the aries mini sstreams everything wirelessly perfect no drop outs

My son had streaming dropouts with various family devices,  the BT HH6 'Smart' hub fixed them all,  That said I'm not supporting wireless for Hi-Res audio,  it really starts to show its limitations with 24-bit.  

I'm looking forward to getting a new BT hub in a few weeks to see what all the fuss is about.  (not that I use it for streaming audio)  

audio1946 posted:

all my probs were solved when I installed the latest bt router for wireless application,even the muso qb works on a table in garden.  no drop outs at all any were in the house.  one of the main reasons for the qb is for ability of moving it aroud.  my main sytsem is wired ...By the way the aries mini sstreams everything wirelessly perfect no drop outs

Thanks. I heard many horror stories about previous BT home Hub routers so I am pleased they have got a product working correctly. Currently got my Mu-So right next to the router upstairs in a bedroom hard wired . Obviously it can't stay there but it has been working continuously for 18 hours and through the night connected to BBC Radio2HD without a blip. Deep joy but it is of no use there and not what I bought the unit for !!! My Linn KDS connected downstairs via devolo 650 has also been running for the same period on BBC Radio2HD without a blip as has my Roberts iStream radio running wirelessly in the kitchen (where the Mu-So normally sits)

Is this what's called a bake-off? Going to run it for a further few days and over the critical weekend period and then unplug the cable and run in wirelessly as intended!

Hey Ho

Kind Regards

RR

Mike-B posted:

My son had streaming dropouts with various family devices,  the BT HH6 'Smart' hub fixed them all,  That said I'm not supporting wireless for Hi-Res audio,  it really starts to show its limitations with 24-bit.  

I'm looking forward to getting a new BT hub in a few weeks to see what all the fuss is about.  (not that I use it for streaming audio)  

Thanks. I had actually been streaming some of my files from my QNAp NAS to the Mu-So wirelessly without any problem. Mainly ripped CD's though. Will try some Hi-Res 192/24 soon I think. I also streamed Tidal wirelessly just fine. It just seem to internet Radio the Mu-So will not sustain reliably and hasn't dome since I bought it over a year ago.

My friend in the next village has the same broadband performance (usually about 5mbs) and he steams all hi-res stuff wirelessly to his Auralic Streamer with the same recent hi spec Netgear router as I have. He also uses the same devolo wireless booster as myself and lives in a 16th century cottage with thick walls , unlike my 15 yearly new build.

His streamer works perfectly without a blip wirelessly (Auralic actually recommend wireless running !!!!) and he chuckles every time we meet when i tell him my Mu-So tales.

Glad BT have developed a decent product. Previous home hubs were horror stories.

Kind Regards

RR

If it streams locally (from NAS) but buffers with broadband it makes you suspect the 5mbs, but that speed should be OK, maybe it's a latency issue, have you involved BT.   I'm fortunate living in a fully fibre' village & get 74mbs.

Mike-B posted:

If it streams locally (from NAS) but buffers with broadband it makes you suspect the 5mbs, but that speed should be OK, maybe it's a latency issue, have you involved BT.   I'm fortunate living in a fully fibre' village & get 74mbs.

Hi there,

Yes I'm always on to BT for a rubbish service. They guarantee me at least 1mbs which is completely ridiculous and I am constantly monitoring the speed etc with about 3/4 software packages. When the Mu-So buffers I am generally still getting 4-5mbs. I get good ping rates too generally less than 50ms. But when internet speed oops to less than 1mbs and doing rate goes over 300ms i really notice it because my phones/laptops etc drop from the internet.

The Mu-So buffers way way before this happens

I dream of 74mbs but only last week the local village forum informed be that super fast broadband is on its way to my little village later this year.

Deep joy. Perhaps running water and gas will follow soon after!

TTFN

RR

It does seem like rubbishy service ... Not enough Bits coming down the pipe & seems like getting lost on the way with 300ms pings.  I'm at daughters house at mo who has just moved from BT to Sky because of similar symptoms as yours, Sonos was OK but it was impossible to work from home on a remote server & forget conference video links etc..   It's so much better not so much for Bit count which has gone from 4-5mbs & is now 15mbs but more with ping speed that has gone from 50-100ms to 14-16ms.     I get 12ms at home on 74mbs over 5GHz wireless 

Red Rooster posted:

Mike-B posted:

My son had streaming dropouts with various family devices,  the BT HH6 'Smart' hub fixed them all,  That said I'm not supporting wireless for Hi-Res audio,  it really starts to show its limitations with 24-bit.  

I'm looking forward to getting a new BT hub in a few weeks to see what all the fuss is about.  (not that I use it for streaming audio)  

Thanks. I had actually been streaming some of my files from my QNAp NAS to the Mu-So wirelessly without any problem. Mainly ripped CD's though. Will try some Hi-Res 192/24 soon I think. I also streamed Tidal wirelessly just fine. It just seem to internet Radio the Mu-So will not sustain reliably and hasn't dome since I bought it over a year ago.

My friend in the next village has the same broadband performance (usually about 5mbs) and he steams all hi-res stuff wirelessly to his Auralic Streamer with the same recent hi spec Netgear router as I have. He also uses the same devolo wireless booster as myself and lives in a 16th century cottage with thick walls , unlike my 15 yearly new build.

His streamer works perfectly without a blip wirelessly (Auralic actually recommend wireless running !!!!) and he chuckles every time we meet when i tell him my Mu-So tales.

Glad BT have developed a decent product. Previous home hubs were horror stories.

Kind Regards

 

RR

 

 

at last the latest bt hub works fine even in front and back garden.  10/10

I had exactly the same problem regarding internet radio with my muso and i was one complaining about it on these forums a few years ago. I tried everything, wi fi, direct ethernet connection to the router, changing the ethernet cable to a chord stream cable (cat 7) and i was still getting dropouts. Towards the end of last year i had a new super hub 3 router but i was still getting it. But over the last couple of years it has got better though , it can go for a couple of months without hardly any drop outs, then for about a week it's pretty bad, sometimes it drops outs 2 or 3 on a record track. Weird eh, i have numerous other devices and have no trouble with them.

My Muso-QB is wireless and never buffers. I listen only to BBC Radio 2 and tunes stored on a NAS drive. In my opinion, there is no "problem" with the Muso and the way it handles the BBC broadcast.

I did used to have some issues which was solved by moving the cordless mobile phone base away from the wifi access point.

Hopefully you'll get your issue resolved quickly.

no trouble with Qb  since latest bt router, wireless in garden that works good