Hi,

How does it seem that Naim does not care about this problem? WiFi (and Ethernet over Mains) are technologies that are inherently unable to be guaranteed reliable so if your issue is caused by a limitation in WiFi or Ethernet Over Mains then there is little that we will be able to do about it.

So, with that in mind, if you connect your Uniti2 via a wired Ethernet (not via Ethernet Over Mains) connection to your router do you have the same issues...?

Best

Phil

The wifi is very likely flaky. Just run a wire. 

Zui posted:

My NAIM unity2 keeps on reconnecting and loosing wifi signal. I cant listen to any streamed music. Spotify, Tidal, upnp keeps stoping. Naim APP on ipad keeps reconnecting and so on. I know that many of you have had this problem for ages. Is there any sollution of this? As it seems to me that NAIM does not care about this problem. Please help, because i am loosing hope on this. Thanks in advance.

Hi mate,

I know your pain, my Mu-So is at it  all the time!! Many of us appear to be out there!!

I will watch replies with interest.

RR

Red Rooster posted:

Zui posted:

My NAIM unity2 keeps on reconnecting and loosing wifi signal. I cant listen to any streamed music. Spotify, Tidal, upnp keeps stoping. Naim APP on ipad keeps reconnecting and so on. I know that many of you have had this problem for ages. Is there any sollution of this? As it seems to me that NAIM does not care about this problem. Please help, because i am loosing hope on this. Thanks in advance.

Hi mate,

I know your pain, my Mu-So is at it  all the time!! Many of us appear to be out there!!

I will watch replies with interest.

 

RR

Hi Red Rooster,

You didn't say in your posting that your Mu-so was loosing WiFi signal and that the Naim app was reconnecting ...

This is very good additional information - please connect your Mu-so directly to your router via a wired Ethernet connection rather than WiFi.

Best

Phil

Red Rooster posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

The wifi is very likely flaky. Just run a wire. 

Please change the record mate.

 

ttfn

 

RR

Hi Red Rooster,

HungryHalibut was trying to help here - your reply could be taken as being abusive so please be respectful.

Best

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

Hi,

How does it seem that Naim does not care about this problem? WiFi (and Ethernet over Mains) are technologies that are inherently unable to be guaranteed reliable so if your issue is caused by a limitation in WiFi or Ethernet Over Mains then there is little that we will be able to do about it.

So, with that in mind, if you connect your Uniti2 via a wired Ethernet (not via Ethernet Over Mains) connection to your router do you have the same issues...?

Best

Phil

The reason why im saying NAIM doesnt care is because this problem had been stated here on forum in 2014 the latest i found. And that still the problem in 2017. 

Once i swaped my uniti2 on marantz with the friend of mine. For a months. Guess what? It worked perfectly for a months. My friend reported the same problem to me in after a week of continuous torcher he connected internet with a wire and, problem solved. I cant make a wired connection to my uniti2 due to a completely renovated flat and my wife will kill me if see any wires on the floor or ceiling. 

I had my uniti being sent for maintenance to the factory. The answer was "no problems found". But it is a massive bloody problem because that equipment costs a massive amount of cash it itdoesnt work properly. Look at the net and you will  find a lot of complaints on that issue. I know im not the only one. People from Australia, uk, Russia, Latvia and more has the same problem and it is not down to router (mine is linksys and myself is the network specialist, internet is a massive 1gbit). 

Let me make it clear i love my naim. Its brilliant but the problem with WIFI connection exists and u cant deny it. Thats what i mean NAIM doesnt care about this problem. 

Phil Harris posted:

Red Rooster posted:

Zui posted:

My NAIM unity2 keeps on reconnecting and loosing wifi signal. I cant listen to any streamed music. Spotify, Tidal, upnp keeps stoping. Naim APP on ipad keeps reconnecting and so on. I know that many of you have had this problem for ages. Is there any sollution of this? As it seems to me that NAIM does not care about this problem. Please help, because i am loosing hope on this. Thanks in advance.

Hi mate,

I know your pain, my Mu-So is at it  all the time!! Many of us appear to be out there!!

I will watch replies with interest.

 

RR

Hi Red Rooster,

You didn't say in your posting that your Mu-so was loosing WiFi signal and that the Naim app was reconnecting ...

This is very good additional information - please connect your Mu-so directly to your router via a wired Ethernet connection rather than WiFi.

Best

Phil

Phil,

Apologies but I thought I made it very clear in my posting that the Mu-So goes into buffering mode in both wired and wireless modes(over several weeks/year of trying to resolve this problem) I have to press the reconnect on the iPad to reconnect. Any reason the Mu-So couldn't be programmed to auto reconnect?

My Mu-So is downstairs, my Router is upstairs and my Linn KDS has no issue with this. I cannot wire my Mu-So to the router direct.   My system was professionally installed by Phil Mulvaney at Cymbiosis.  Understand they have experienced  Naim streaming devices at their shop also buffering with a bespoke wired ethernet network.

Must say I am a bit confused, are you saying the Mu-So is not really designed to wirelessly operate streamed Radio?

Kind Regards

RR

Phil Harris posted:

Red Rooster posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

The wifi is very likely flaky. Just run a wire. 

Please change the record mate.

 

ttfn

 

RR

Hi Red Rooster,

HungryHalibut was trying to help here - your reply could be taken as being abusive so please be respectful.

Best

Phil

Apologies Phil point taken. Just thought it an unhelpful response. 

RR

Hi,

As you are a network specialist I am sure that you will be only too aware that you cannot guarantee a reliable wireless network using consumer grade networking hardware (and, of course, that your internet connection speed has no relevance to your WiFi issue). Unfortunately WiFi cannot be guaranteed to be reliable in all circumstances. If the Uniti works wired but not wireless and you cannot run a network cable then you could try running a remote WiFi antenna or you could use an alternative WiFi bridge that could be relocated for better signal or to connect to your 5GHz network if that is more reliable.

Your connectivity issue by WiFi is unfortunate but is not indicative of an inherent product failing and certainly does not constitute a "Naim doesn't care about this problem".

Best

Phil Harris

Red Rooster posted:

Phil,

Apologies but I thought I made it very clear in my posting that the Mu-So goes into buffering mode in both wired and wireless modes(over several weeks/year of trying to resolve this problem) I have to press the reconnect on the iPad to reconnect. Any reason the Mu-So couldn't be programmed to auto reconnect?

The original poster here is having very different issues to yours - you are having streaming issues - he is having connectivity issues.

You are telling your unit to reconnect to an internet radio station - he is having to reconnect his unit back to his WiFi network. Your Mu-so will try to reconnect to a radio station if it can however if it loses the stream completely then you may need to manually reconnect to the station feed.

Red Rooster posted:

My Mu-So is downstairs, my Router is upstairs and my Linn KDS has no issue with this. I cannot wire my Mu-So to the router direct.

It is always possible to hard wire a connection however it may not be convenient (or something that you are prepared to do) and I do accept that - however I have simply asked for it to be hard wired to the router as a test and for that it would be possible to simply move the Mu-so to where your router is and connect it using one of the many freebie Ethernet cables that come with devices or that you are currently using to connect your router to your Devolos.

Red Rooster posted:

My system was professionally installed by Phil Mulvaney at Cymbiosis.

I am afraid that I would have issues with the use of the term "Professionally installed" being applied to any network installation using Ethernet Over Mains devices - they are convenience devices (in the same way that Wireless Repeaters are) but they have no part in any kind of reliable network infrastructure and cannot be guaranteed to provide a minimum level of service - as long as this was specified by the installer and accepted by you (the customer) at the time the system was being planned then that is fine  ...

Red Rooster posted:

Understand they have experienced Naim streaming devices at their shop also buffering with a bespoke wired ethernet network.

Many things can be understood if they are examined and worked through logically ... as I have already said, I have set up a stable network at my partners home that works perfectly for internally streamed audio and video but I cannot get TIDAL to work reliably there due to the very poor "OpenReach" infrastructure that feeds the local FTTC network.

Red Rooster posted:

Must say I am a bit confused, are you saying the Mu-So is not really designed to wirelessly operate streamed Radio?

Not at all ... I am saying that for 99%+ of users the Mu-so and Uniti products will operate perfectly both wired and wireless.

However - both WiFi and Ethernet Over Mains are not transport mediums that can have a guaranteed quality of service and in our experience are always the first place to start looking when issues are reported.

In the OP's instance it looks like his issue is related to WiFi performance in the location where he has his Uniti - in yours it appears that your issue is caused by excessive latency on your local infrastructure during busy periods - interestingly you say that TIDAL works fine for you which is normally much more demanding on streaming than Internet Radio.

Best

Phil

An interesting discussion here.

From a number of times HH, several estemeed forum members and I,  helped other forum members it became very clear that in all (bar one) instances 'problems with NAIM streamers' were really problems caused by poorly implemented networks - wired or wi-fi.
Of course - it's frustrating when our toys don't work as intended. But to Naim's defence - it's rarely their fault.

Reliable network streaming, including external streaming services like Tidal, does require a good, stable network. Quality router is essential, as is a wired connection.

Adam

Adam Zielinski posted:

An interesting discussion here.

From a number of times HH, several estemeed forum members and I,  helped other forum members it became very clear that in all (bar one) instances 'problems with NAIM streamers' were really problems caused by poorly implemented networks - wired or wi-fi.
Of course - it's frustrating when our toys don't work as intended. But to Naim's defence - it's rarely their fault.

Reliable network streaming, including external streaming services like Tidal, does require a good, stable network. Quality router is essential, as is a wired connection.

Adam

Thanks Adam. I think I have a stable network. I have quality Netgear Routers. I have an additional Devolo Wireless booster downstairs for belt and braces coverage. 

I understand the "wire it to the router" mantra and have no problem with that particular advice. 

My rather simple and naive comment is effectively two fold and based purely on trying to undertake a  simple task of streaming Radio 2 on my Mu-So for over a year now.

1) My other equipment will stream wirelessly in my house (iPhones, Macbook ,iPad ,Dell laptop , Sonos Soundbar, Sony TV, Sony DVD player, Roberts iStream radio). I stream TV/Sky programmes on catchup and live with no issues. Why will my Mu-So not do the same reliably on Radio 2?

2) Given the limitations of using devolos on the mains for ethernet connection (not professionally installed apparently)  which I have to use. Why does my Linn KDS and Roberts iStream radio work perfectly over this wired system without batting an eyelid. To check this recently, every time the Naim buffers in the kitchen, I check on the KDS in the day room and the Roberts upstairs in the bedroom to find them paying along nicely. Mu Mu-So streams Tidal no problem in the kitchen in both devolo wired and wireless.

If that's my lot then I suppose I'm back to my Pure Evoke DAB radio in the kitchen.

Kind Regards

RR

Adam Zielinski posted:

An interesting discussion here.

Interesting, I agree as I read Red Rooster's related post.

The first line of Naim's product page for the Muso states "Mu-so^® is our first wireless music system." Further down the Muso page states "Our dedicated team of software engineers designed it to be so easy to use you’ll be listening to and discovering more music than ever before. " The Muso product specification for Networks reads "Ethernet (10/100Mbps), Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) 2.4GHz" Other than that requirement, I found no caveat emptor on the page stating that the buyer may, in fact, not be able to satisfactorily use the wifi (UPnP). That said, I realize home networks are variably complex and ISP services may not at all times deliver stated upload rates.

Then there's the "just run a wire response". Why have to? The Muso and Uniti2 are convenience and lifestyle devices with a wifi option included. I'd suspect the very reason one doesn't "run a wire" is for the very fact that it is not convenient and they want to utilize the wifi aspect.

When I had the Uniti2 on home demo years ago my wife and I both loved it. Internet radio was a lot of fun. Due to the construction of my house it would have been very difficult/costly to run a wired connection to my listening room. We accepted the SQ compromise of the wifi connection, but couldn't live with the drop outs despite meeting the stated requirements.

I don't doubt other manufacturers meet the same pitfalls with their wifi devices, just suggesting Naim shouldn't advertise it as being so seamless. As well, I don't find the "just run a wire" response constructive to a user intent on wifi connectivity. In the case of a Muso, it's likely the user may want to pick up the unit and use it a various locations about the house. Out on the deck on a warm summer evening as one example.

I have the same problems as described here:  https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...g-network-connection 

We were all hoping for a new firmware to solve it but it seams like NAIM just doesnt recognize the problem at all. I use my wifi network for streaming 3D VIDEOS, Netflix and all that stuff with a massive data amount sent works just fine. Marantz at the same place and with the same wifi router just sings. I know its better to have wired connections instead of wifi but what if i dont have it?! Uniti2 is equiped with the wifi module and if it is so it must work or just say we dont provide wifi connections. 

Once againe, i love my naim, im a big fan of all the high grade audio equipment you provide but that network stuff just dont work properly. Recognize the problem and together we will find the solution. 

[@mention:1566878603979021]

You've mentioned you have an Apple infrastrucuture (except for a router as I understood). Could you try to run a network analysis (there is a good app available from the App Store called 'Net Analyzer'. Get a PRO version - I think it's EUR 1.99. Always comes in handy.

Once installed try to scan your home network. NAIM streamers should be seen as available with status icons: WUP, your router and NAS (if you have one) woud have a B (for Bonjour) broadcasted.

At some stage, if you have a chance, I woudl recommend testing an Apple Airport Extreme - it works very well for me and provides an extremely stable home network. 

There is one thing which I found with regards to iRadio - dropouts in my case were cause by ISPs network overload. I complained to them and the problem 'went away'.

By the way, I had been so desperate to find solution for this problem so i took uniti2 to my work place. We got network system installed with professional CISCO equipment. All of it, even wifi routers. At first uniti2 played well so i was really happy i found a problem (since router upgrade is not a biggy even though i use Linksys EA6400 which is very good). Gues what? After 3 hours of clear playing the problem started to appear! And the longer it plays the more often it gets. After week playing i had the same result as i have at home. Naim app on iPad always "reconnects" with "no rooms found" result. 

We can play network blame game but its not. I speak lithuanian, german and russian languages and i found the same problem about naim dropping connection and app constantly reconnecting in all three of those laguages audiophilles forums. The faster we recognize the problem the better it would b for all of us since i was quite sure that will not be an issue on new range of Naim products. But looks like it is. 

I take it that WE denotes a 'royal WE' I also speak Russian and I forgot my Lithuanian, but I never rememebr refering to myself in plural 

One question - do you run DHCP with auto-renewal or static IP assignment on your network?

Adam Zielinski posted:

[@mention:1566878603979021]

You've mentioned you have an Apple infrastrucuture (except for a router as I understood). Could you try to run a network analysis (there is a good app available from the App Store called 'Net Analyzer'. Get a PRO version - I think it's EUR 1.99. Always comes in handy.

Once installed try to scan your home network. NAIM streamers should be seen as available with status icons: WUP, your router and NAS (if you have one) woud have a B (for Bonjour) broadcasted.

At some stage, if you have a chance, I woudl recommend testing an Apple Airport Extreme - it works very well for me and provides an extremely stable home network. 

There is one thing which I found with regards to iRadio - dropouts in my case were cause by ISPs network overload. I complained to them and the problem 'went away'.

Thanks.

My infrastructure in not Apple. Some of my devices are

Regards

R

Scanning the netowrk is still advisable. If you manage to run the test please post the results. 

Adam

Static

Zui posted:

Static

If I may recommend chnging it all to DHCP and power-cycling all the equipment, especially the network parts.'Start them up: network first, wait few minutes and start switching the rest on.

DHCP is generally a safer bet for stable home networking.

Ithink i tryed once already but ill do it tonight once at home.

Dziękuję Ci, Adamie

Hi

Sorry to hear about your problems.

I moved 1 3/4 year ago into a pretty large house. The first problem was that my previous amp was undersized. That's how I came in the Naim world.

Then, I started streaming using Spotify into a ChromeCast Audio when it was released and I had frequent dropouts. Not only the ChromeCast Audio (wireless) had issues, also in certain places in my house the tables / pc's etc did not make good connections or to slow to stream movies or so.

So a MasterPlan had to be made.

The golden rule for me was to connect all devices to cables where possible. I fully understand that not every device can be hardwired, but in my experience, there are loads of devices (many of my Philips Hue lightbulbs e.g) these days having a connection so reducing them made quite a difference. E.g. my TV. MacMini, ChromeCast (video), Apple TV are all hardwired and wifi is switched off if possible.

I've also disabled my wifi antenna on the modem from my fiber internet provider. From that modem, a utp cable is going to the design fireplace in my house which has loads of redundant space. there is my wifi router - at the very most central place in my house. This has the additional benefit that my providers modem is now acting as a firewall and on my own local network, I have no limitations.

Moving your wifi router only a few centimeters could make your connection two times better.

I've done more tweakery like re-terminating all my utp cables (don't trust your licensed (!) electricians - they are pretty overrated), or moving large metal objects / cables.

Since all this, I have not spend a minute on my network anymore. In a year time, I've maybe restarted my wifi router once or so.

No dropouts, and what is also important, better security and no fuzz on other devices too. PC's tablets, it's all fine.

I might as a question here which is not allowed, but can you get a better antenna for the Uniti (does Naim provide such)? Based on images I've seen, the antenna is pretty small.

Adam Zielinski posted:

DHCP is generally a safer bet for stable home networking.

100% on that.     DHCP is designed for home network use & going for static can get you into a bad place if you don't get it all set up correctly.  However I'm not convinced this is the problem in this particular case,  although absolutely no harm & maybe some advantages in trying DHCP.      I've played with static & found I had more network discovery issues than when set for DHCP.   I found that fixing a number outside the ISP licence range was not helping so I moved all the units back to DHCP & then fixed the IP address (use only this number) for Naim, NAS & iPad to IP numbers within the ISP licence range,  this fixed my specific net discovery issue with Naim & NAS.  I must add that it was not helped by the ISP hub constantly changing IP address numbers, a new one every time it switched on,  I had the ISP hub replaced & it now allocates an IP address against a MAC address & keeps it.  I still have the Naim, NAS & iPad IP addresses fixed.  

joerand posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

An interesting discussion here.

Interesting, I agree as I read Red Rooster's related post.

The first line of Naim's product page for the Muso states "Mu-so^® is our first wireless music system." Further down the Muso page states "Our dedicated team of software engineers designed it to be so easy to use you’ll be listening to and discovering more music than ever before. " The Muso product specification for Networks reads "Ethernet (10/100Mbps), Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) 2.4GHz" Other than that requirement, I found no caveat emptor on the page stating that the buyer may, in fact, not be able to satisfactorily use the wifi (UPnP). That said, I realize home networks are variably complex and ISP services may not at all times deliver stated upload rates.

Then there's the "just run a wire response". Why have to? The Muso and Uniti2 are convenience and lifestyle devices with a wifi option included. I'd suspect the very reason one doesn't "run a wire" is for the very fact that it is not convenient and they want to utilize the wifi aspect.

When I had the Uniti2 on home demo years ago my wife and I both loved it. Internet radio was a lot of fun. Due to the construction of my house it would have been very difficult/costly to run a wired connection to my listening room. We accepted the SQ compromise of the wifi connection, but couldn't live with the drop outs despite meeting the stated requirements.

I don't doubt other manufacturers meet the same pitfalls with their wifi devices, just suggesting Naim shouldn't advertise it as being so seamless. As well, I don't find the "just run a wire" response constructive to a user intent on wifi connectivity. In the case of a Muso, it's likely the user may want to pick up the unit and use it a various locations about the house. Out on the deck on a warm summer evening as one example.

Hi there,

Many thanks for this. You seem to have succinctly summed up my comments better than me. Yes this is the real issue. Is it wireless or not?  Everyone with a problem with a Mu-So etc can't have a rubbish wireless network. It's not that simple Naim IMHO.

Kind Regards

RR