Which Gives Most Pleasure, Black Box Upgrades or Expanding Your Music Collection?

I initially dipped my toe in Naim waters with some entry level kit via eBay, and forum members proved to most helpful in giving me advice as to where to go next.

Consequently, I would post occasionally, passing on similar advice to others starting out on their own Naim journey.

With the advent of Tidal, however, I could access members' music recommendations straight away, rather than stick them on a "to do" list, and now, it is easily the most visited topic on the forum for me.

As Nigel says above, I've been introduced to so much music which might otherwise have passed me by, and , hopefully, have brought some new music to other forum members attention.

It's a cliche, certainly, but it really is all about the music. 

Ahhh - the pinnacle of all debates - music or equipment.

I second Nigel's thoughts - it is very easy to go down the rabbit hole and chase the next illusory upgrade.

Been there, done there myself. Luckily for me and my sanity, my first addiction finally took over - music. Currently sitting, late in the evening, typing away on the iPad and listening to some MP3s of Tomasz Stanko on my Bose in-ear headphones. (ripped and created with my UnitiServe - so they surely must sound much better ). So hardly audiophile grade equipment.

But I've arrived at this stage when listening to music is so much fun, I almost don't care about the boxes. Of course they are instrumental in my enjoyment of music replay.

Perhaps there is some logic to this - Naim has tought me how to appreciate recorded music. Because music sounds so much better on Naim.

Happy days.

PS

Just ordered some more recorded music (CDs and an LP) should be with me after Easter... Oh... and Amazon did deliver something this morning...

Agreed you do need a certain level of SQ (the kit) to fully appreciate the music. But Adam enjoys listening to MP3s on Bose in-ear phones and I can enjoy a CD on my rather crappy car stereo.

It is all about getting the balance right.

Goodness this seems a trite and over-used phrase but after all is said and done, it really is about the music, isn't it?

Come on, Nigel. Do you really expect to find here anyone brave enough to admit that he rather play with toys than listen to the music?  Who do you think we are, the US Special Forces? Even if you visit the Padded Cell where some of the political topics are quite explosive, you will realize that most of us are just a bunch of wimps hurting our necks while bending backwards trying to remain politically correct..

Now, you could probably get a more honest answer by rephrasing your question (while employing the magical Fibonacci ratio) and ask who spent more than 0.382 of the cost of his/hers sound system on music. That would probably be a good indicator where one's heart lies.

Personally, I cannot speak of things I don't know (upgrades). My sound system has been in a 'park' mode since it was purchased in 1999. What I would like to say about the Music Room though is that beyond its musical wealth I was privileged to find there some very special individuals who became my friends on line, two of which I managed to meet in real life . And that's priceless.

Haim

Good thread. This upgraditis syndrome comes up once in a while in my case but it's not solely focused on black boxes. I have tried looking for new music in the past, expanding the music collection to divert the attention but somehow the temptation of trying different equipment still remains. I am pretty selective on the music that i listen to. If the music appeal to me I tend to listen continuously in prolonged sessions, sometimes throughout the whole day.

The limitation is not only with black boxes of amplification but loudspeakers, sources, cables and other tweaks. Sometimes the curiosity got the better of me but of course the issue of spending too much money on equipment upgrades do take a toll on most people. For this reason I chose not to embark on black box upgrades but instead concentrate on setting up alternative systems just for the sake of having a different musical reproduction. My current NAC 282, NAP 250 DR and Hicap DR combined with Harbeth loudspeakers served me well but sometimes it's the itch of trying new gear, not so much about the system that's lacking in certain areas.

I currently have two systems based on Naim amps (282/250DR and 202/200) both driving different speakers. I often gravitate to the better system most of the time. The lesser system doesn't get much listening as the main system is somewhat superior. If I feel like listening to a different presentation, I will just swap the speakers (instead of amplifiers since the 282/250DR are undoubtedly superior) to attain a different sound presentation. I actually have plans for another non-Naim integrated and the Proac Tablette 10 Signature. I have no intention of improving the main system but the Tablette 10s just look too cute and desirable (for me), and my previous experience with small Proac monitors(Tablette 50 Signature) although not entirely convincing was rather good. A non-Naim integrated will give me a rather different sound, I hope. I already have two Naim setups and it doesn't make much sense to have another system based on a Naim.

Lastly, I don't really subscribe to the notion that if someone derives great satisfaction and enjoyment from system A, he/she will not enjoy listening to system B. I can derive enjoyment from different sounding systems and appreciate the flexibility of swapping equipment and/or speakers between systems which may indirectly reduce the desire of hopping on the upgrade wagon.

I would say, both equipment and music give me equal pleasure but I hope the latter will prevail more at the end of the day, since buying new music is cheaper than buying new equipment.

Haim Ronen posted:

Come on, Nigel. Do you really expect to find here anyone brave enough to admit that he rather play with toys than listen to the music?  Who do you think we are, the US Special Forces? Even if you visit the Padded Cell where some of the political topics are quite explosive, you will realize that most of us are just a bunch of wimps hurting our necks while bending backwards trying to remain politically correct..

Now, you could probably get a more honest answer by rephrasing your question (while employing the magical Fibonacci ratio) and ask who spent more than 0.382 of the cost of his/hers sound system on music. That would probably be a good indicator where one's heart lies.

Personally, I cannot speak of things I don't know (upgrades). My sound system has been in a 'park' mode since it was purchased in 1999. What I would like to say about the Music Room though is that beyond its musical wealth I was privileged to find there some very special individuals who became my friends on line, two of which I managed to meet in real life . And that's priceless.

Haim

 

I take your point and maybe I am asking for a deal of honesty in my subject, but I have admitted to spending too much on upgrades and too little on music in recent times. You are clearly an exception on here as you have not spent a penny on your system since 1999. I would suggest that is unusual compared to those posting on here judging by the activity and responses on this forum.

Haim, I suspect you are hurting inside because you might have bought a cable and denied yourself a new CD. Don't sweat it, this is your chance to come clean and admit all to this caring and sharing place.

We'll love you just the same!

I sense the moderator moving this to the Padded Cell. Oh well it probably belongs there.

Haven't bought a new piece of hardware in years for my main system as I live so far away from any main dealer that it is a major effort to pop into one.

Mind you I have had the upgrade itch for a little while but have refused to scratch it.

I am kind of in both camps. I collect an enormous amount of music as I have a broad interest. And i keep myself telling to reduce the intake of new music. But at the same time I also listen a lot to music, so it's not just lying around.

I also made some massive upgrades in the last years and I am awaiting the latest upgrade in electricity Tuning in a couple of days. While I am not in the business of upgrading for the fun of exchanging boxes etc, but just to improve my experience. Right now my only upgrades which I could think of which are left are limited DR on 500, potentially some roomacoustics and as final icing on the cake a 2nd 555ps. I will not have the funds to consider statement type of level.

So bottom line I am more addicted to collecting music, than boxes.....

I'm in the process of finalizing the overhaul of my main system, which is to upgrade the interconnects once my ATC11 speakers have arrived and settled in. Once done I'm looking forward to a five year plus hiatus of black boxery to settle into listening to the music.

With Tidal it has been both a revelation and revolution in my music listening habits, often being taken out of my comfort zone to listen to some wonderful artists. However, the upgrade process has also been a revelation when listening to old favorites, often hearing instruments and /or nuances for the first time which were masked by the limitations of my old system.

So, pretty much a thumbs up for either path from me in getting to my goal of musical enjoyment.

thereis an element of truth about the naim box count and maybe the one box solution is taking effect.there seems a lot of additional boxes from all manufacturers on the 2nd hand market

Well this obsession started when I was about 6 years old when I saw Ready Steady Go on ITV, and parents that loved music played a part as well.  So music really but if I claimed I had no interest in the hi-fi it would be denial.

Regards,

Lindsay

Similarly to Haim, I haven't upgraded since buying my 82/250/Hicap in 1993 and SBLs in 1996. I have spent a lot of money since then on vinyl and cds and love discovering new music, but after discovering this forum a couple of years ago and learning about streaming and all the new products Naim have produced, I have become enthused about black boxes again and have started to get the upgrade itch. I think I can thank (blame?!) the forum for this.

Simple answer for me, I enjoy both.

Have bought a lot of new music after looking at the 'what are you listening to thread' , but must confess I do enjoy a black box addition/upgrade, just recently speaker cable upgrade.... 

It makes listening to music much more enjoyable ....

Either option is a great way to de-stress.... 

Ps good Coffee helps as well 

I've probably been more in the black box camp over the last few years, although that hasn't stopped me needing to greatly increase my vinyl storage capacity. I do have an end game in sight though after which the focus will be on ensuring the mortgage gets paid off as quickly as possible. Retirement is looming over the horizon at which point I'll no doubt have to stick with what I have or even begin to downsize.

One thing I really do enjoy with upgrades though is hearing old favourites in new ways and rediscovering my collection over and over.

I have spent a lot of money on black boxes, speakers, cables and music......the rest I have squandered... 

Both

Adam Zielinski posted:

I almost don't care about the boxes.

I think I understood how it works (or worked) for me.

First, I must specify that dealing with music through the week, the months, the year as a professor in a music conservatory, doesn't necessarily favour feeling like listening to more music (and in reproductions, whose quality varies greatly from disc to disc) when at home. And – as it happens in any work environment – even music can be the cause of discomfort, arguments, bad moods if it's the chore of one's work. Only pure listeners, possibly with an innocent and open mind about music, can enjoy listening for extended sessions at home. Professionals can't.

That said, I have been pray to the system vs music trap for a long time, and, as someone may recall, I have changed a number of boxes that now, thinking of it, leaves me incredulous. For all of the time I have been concentrated on gear, taken by the game, deluded by the idea of sound, I have basically been bored by the music I replayed. Nothing was of real interest, and I used to spend minutes in front of the bookshelf containing my CDs trying to decide what to listen to. And, as has been proved by experiments, I ended up choosing the type of music that made my system sound best.

Now I have contrived a simple way to balance things reasonably: I have chosen the equipment by limiting the possibility of upgrading, and adding a small amount of personal dislikes to help keeping the limits impassable; as an example, my rack is made of three shelves and it can host two boxes, the top shelf being voluntarily limited to an aesthetic function; the SuperNait won't be upgraded with an external PSU because I have focalized my dislike on SNAICs and made it a sine qua condition: everything requiring SNAICs will be avoided. The CDX2 is ok as it is, and no XPS will be added because a), I wouldn't know where to put it (the top shelf is off limits), and anything requiring a Burndy will be equally avoided. The thought that a CDP and an integrated amp whose current retails are, respectively, €6990 and €4900 are expected to do their job well without the help of costly addendum has had a part in the process.

I have considered (human flesh is weak and human mind is weaker) those 3rd party PSUs that some use (and come from Israel) because they are small and could be hidden under the lower shelf of the rack; but a), they require SNAICs and fall into the aforementioned category; and, b) I would feel like those who eat soy steaks shaped to look like meat steaks: a fool and a hypocrite. As for the speakers, a 12 years quest has proven that the only sensible choice (scale, extension, design, quality, good sound, being called Naim) was the last release of the S-400, so I went for that. Simple.

This way my system is virtually unchangeable, and I have finally discovered that since I cannot speculate and fantasize anymore on changes, alternatives and upgrades, I finally enjoy music.

(My source of inspiration – I admit it easily – was Haim Ronen's statement that his system is the same since 1999. That made me realize that even in the world of audio a degree of sanity is possible. Thanks, H.)

M

ChrisSU posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

I almost don't care about the boxes.

That guy isn't going anywhere near my speakers..

ChrisSU posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

I almost don't care about the boxes.

He got them all they are everywhere!

Neither for me. It's all about the cables 

Both. Although music has always been in pole position and always will be. There is a third source of pleasure not covered in the OP. The reward of repeated listening to what I have already.

ChrisSU posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

I almost don't care about the boxes.

ALMOST was the key word in that sentence 

Both can be right, depending on the circumstances.

 If you dislike the sound your system, no amount of new music can cure it. Actually I think it can be detrimental, as it can lead to a growing dislike of listening to music as such.

On the other hand, if you have a settled on a good and well balanced setup, like Haim obviously has, spending money on black boxes, cables or whatever will most likely ruin the balance. 

For me it is boxes etc. now. I already have more music sitting on shelves and inside my computer than I have time to listen to it. Having small children might have to do something with the scarcity of time. As my current system doesn't send my mind into standby mode to loose myself into music, I'll spend some more money until I have reached that level again