Focal or ATC Speakers for NAC272/NAP250 DR

Room Size?
Preferred musical genres?
Sonic Preferences?

Why just these two?  Why not Focal Electra?  Why not others?

A 250DR will drive all these OK.

Why not keep your speakers and consider an XPS DR for the 272?

Hi Huge,

Room size: 50 m2 (living room)
Preferred musical genres: 40% jazz, 40% rock, 20% classical (my wife )
I like a good bass, but obviously in classical music that doesn't work too well!

Focal Electra - I just didn't know, sorry. I'm a humble student here...

I read that the ATC SCM and Focal Aria drive Naim well, that's why I mention them. I am aware that there are a gazillion options out there, but I'm trying to leverage others' experience here rather than reinventing the wheel.

I already have XPS and will upgrade to 555PS DR when I find the right used device.

I've never heard Focal speakers but I've some experience with ATC. Their sealed cabinet design and custom home made top drawer quality drivers imo make them a very difficult speaker to beat regardless of cost. They are a very honest speaker in that they attempt to add nothing and take nothing away and just present the music as it is as accurately as possible with as little distortion and noise as possible. That's why the are are so popular not just with hifi enthusiasts but also with recording studios around the world. Don't get the Focal's without trying a side by side comparison with ATC's. SCM40 or active SCM40A are very special speakers but you need a room large enough to cope with the extended bass.

ATC SCM11

Hi Jon,

Why SCM 11 rather than SCM 19 (or maybe even SCM 40 as 50m² is quite large)?

because it gets you started with a staggeringly good speaker that hits way way way waaaaaay above its weight. I mean, *stupidly* so. And they are a perfect match to the 250DR, which is how i use mine. 

And I noticed the comment "20% classical (my wife )" -- SCM11s have huge WAF (wife appreciation factor) because they are small. SCM40s are huge monsters.

I've had the Aria 926 and the Electric 1028be, both excellent speakers in their respective price brackets.

What is your budget? 

Thank you all  

budget is max 7-8k euro

the ATC SCM 40 are unfortunately too large I just checked.

I only have 31 cm wide.

what is the difference between the ATC SCM 11 and 19?

The Focal 1028be, as suggested by Wenger2015, is 264mm wide so within your limit. I too can vouch for how well they work with Naim gear. That said, they do need room around them to work at their best. The Focals above and below the Electra range, Aria& Sopra respectively, are also excellent - easy to drive and again well-matched to Naim.  You do need to listen though.      

With the budget you have available,  then definitely have a dem of the Electra 1028be. As MDS says they need a little room, but they really are exceptionally good speakers.

A 50m2 room is really big, so I wonder why speakers can only be 31cm wide. What are the current speakers? 

I had an audition of the Focal Electra 1008be stand mounts and loved them.  Very energetic and fun sounding for the electronic music I listen to.  I'm not sure how that would translate to jazz, but they should be well worth an audition at least. In the end, I went for PMC Twenty5.23 as the dog and stand mounted speakers wouldn't mix well. 

I have 272/XPS/250 coming this week. There is a pair of 1028be for sale at a nice price but no way to demo in house. I do have Focal speakers in the car. Are the home speakers and car speakers similar?

hello, just have a demo, with your gear you can try electra, sopra , diablo utopia...

Manu68 posted:

Thank you all  

budget is max 7-8k euro

the ATC SCM 40 are unfortunately too large I just checked.

I only have 31 cm wide.

what is the difference between the ATC SCM 11 and 19?

If you decide ATC, their active models are really good even you have a great amp allready I guess active win hands down

The ATC 11 (litre) will most likely become too small in such large room

Both 11 or 19 are great speakers provided driven by beefy amps

These speakers are non ported and works well against wall

Can't really recommend Focal speakers, those Ive heard were not my cup.

They are only recent becoming popular here because they took over Naim and later Naim-Focal were taken over by investors

Seem as their latest range are voiced to perform in a Naim setup.

Another point is how far from wall do you manage to have in play for new speakersb?

Very important

Get a homedem if at all possible

I'd look at other brand speakers too, such as Kudos, PMC, Rega, Spendor, Harbeth, but there are hundreds out there and price is not really an indication how good they are. I've heard some speakers at insane prices sounded awfull and affordable sounded suprisingly good.

b_lund posted:

Can't really recommend Focal speakers, those Ive heard were not my cup.

They are only recent becoming popular here because they took over Naim and later Naim-Focal were taken over by investors

Seem as their latest range are voiced to perform in a Naim setup.

 

Another point is how far from wall do you manage to have in play for new speakersb?

Very important

Get a homedem if at all possible

 

I'd look at other brand speakers too, such as Kudos, PMC, Rega, Spendor, Harbeth, but there are hundreds out there and price is not really an indication how good they are. I've heard some speakers at insane prices sounded awfull and affordable sounded suprisingly good.

 

 

I agree that Focals are not to everyone's taste. Speakers are very subjective. But they have been popular with me, and a few others on here, well before Focal invested in Naim. 

Very much agree about the importance of a home demo. While you can get an idea if a speaker's presentation is to your liking from a demo in store, they always sound different in your own listening room. Room interaction can make or break a speaker, even one that sounds good in a store demo. So while a store demo is useful in narrowing down the choice, a home demo is still needed before you can be really confident that a speaker will please you.  

"Both 11 or 19 are great speakers provided driven by beefy amps"

Indeed

"These speakers are non ported and works well against wall"

I wouldnt. My 11s go plummy and slow when i tried that

Absolutely, sealed enclosures make speakers somewhat less dependant on position, but certainly not immune from the effects of position.

As the happy owner of Aria 926's with the Uniti 2 I'm clear on my needs and expectations from my system. I mostly use it to play TV, films and Spotify through and couldn't be happier with my system with these less than perfect sources. 

Out of curiosity I've just played some 192 and 96 kHz material from a USB source to remind me what this sounded like. It sounded sensational and reminds me of what the setup is capable of when fed with perfect material. Could I do better? I hope so as it's always nice to dream, and your setup is one I might aspire to in the future if I find myself spending more time listening seriously. 

However, what I now have is capable of sounding superb and I'd therefore recommend the old advice of listen to the material you will most spend time with in your own room before buying. Do not invest based on other people's views which can be driven by all sorts of motivations, including a need to get affirmation of a substantial investment. 

I am interested to hear how you get on with what should be an enjoyable experience :-)

[@mention:1566878603901653] I had not thought the space I have behind the speakers would be that determinant. Probably naive from me...
Currently I have 10 cm behind them, I can go up to 20 cm but not much more. Is this not enough?

thanks for the recommendation re ATC. I will definitely try them but in active version, I guess it would be redundant with my NAP 250 DR...

thanks to all for your expert inputs

...and I will most definitely share my upgrade experiences, including switching to a 555PS DR

At the risk of being moaned at for suggesting the speakers I own, have you thought about SL2s. You can get them for about £2,000 and 10cm from the wall is perfect. All of the Focals you are thinking of need a lot more space. For something current, the Kudos Super 20 is highly thought of, looks good and is very compact. About 25cm from the wall is probably the minimum. The Active ATC 19 is another idea. 

[@mention:4804681823084713] thanks. SL2s on my list of "to try" now price is for sure enticing.

Manu68 posted:

[@mention:1566878603901653] I had not thought the space I have behind the speakers would be that determinant. Probably naive from me...
Currently I have 10 cm behind them, I can go up to 20 cm but not much more. Is this not enough?

It will be enough for most Naim, early Linn and some ATC and Audiovector speakers but rear ported is a no go, apart from very few, such as Rega One amo, you often need at least double that, but very room dependant

I never really got it why many speaker brands design their range to be placed way out in room.

Maybe try to narrow in search for non ported or front ported speakers, indeed not easy but do a google search perhaps or ask here and there.

Notice early Naim speakers are not plug and play, I guess later Ovators are easier to put in than say SBL or NBL

jon honeyball posted:

"Both 11 or 19 are great speakers provided driven by beefy amps"

Indeed

"These speakers are non ported and works well against wall"

I wouldnt. My 11s go plummy and slow when i tried that

What I should have said, close to wall, depending on room

I had my "7" something like 10-12 cm out, maybe a bit more, so not straight up against wall