Focal or ATC Speakers for NAC272/NAP250 DR

Manu68 posted:

[@mention:4804681823084713] thanks. SL2s on my list of "to try" now price is for sure enticing.

They are great speakers if correct setup

Not many manufactured I guess, they do come up occasionally and maybe grabbed fast too.

On pace and timing they trounce the later Ovators and many others, provided you have good room, rack, cables, mains and have taken care of setting up procedure, not for amateurs.

Large deep soundstage - maybe better than older SBL's but not what many people search, maybe thats why they never became a sales succes and were replaced with Ovator, a pity.

Hi. Besides Focal Electra and ATC SCM 19, i strongly suggest auditioning Piega Premium 3.2 or 5.2 - they are amazing speakers (unlike their Classic range) and work well close to walls.

Your room is very large.  I believe Focal Sopra 2 or above would be necessary depending on the listening volume.  To fill that room at a SPL around 80 to 85 db  would demand large speakers.

BPou posted:

Your room is very large.  

Exactly my thoughts

b_lund posted

Large deep soundstage 

Should have written

Not very large soundstage

Manu68 posted:

would the ATC SCM 19 work given how large my room is?

Maybe you could play them on a short side filling half room with direct music ? Hard to say not knowing room design and your preferred listen SPL

Forgot to mention, take a listen at the new floorstander Neat Iota, its very small but reportedly very good performance, we have the original miniature bookshelfs in a tv setup and they are magnificient even they are rear ported

i wouldnt buy SL2s now. Time has moved on. Technology in driver design has moved forward a lot. From an engineering point of view, there are some 25 years progress in ATC SCM11 compared to SL2s, and lets not ignore what Magico is doing which is 5-10 years into the future compared to almost every other vendor

SL2s maybe if you want to go active -- but not passive, not today.

or to put it another way, ATC SCM11 with 300DR beats any configuration of SL2, active or passive unless you are prepared to go to 300DR or 500DR active amps. 

[@mention:1566878603947292] thanks for your perspective. What is special about Magico's approach to speaker design?

any model I should look at?

totally cleansheet approach to numerical modelling of cabinet and driver resonance, stored energy, and so forth

nothing, but nothing, beats 500DR driving Magico S6mk2 in my experience. its the best sound i have ever heard, and by a significant distance too. 

ok, I only have a 250 DR so clearly not same power, but thanks !

PS: I can't see an S6 on their site, only S5 or S7...

ah yes, and the price...! beautiful speaker, with the hefty price tag associated to it.

Manu68 posted:

PS: I can't see an S6 on their site, only S5 or S7...

I've heard some Magico's and they were way too expensive for what I heard, maybe not optimised ?

jon honeyball posted:

 

nothing, but nothing, beats 500DR driving Magico S6mk2 in my experience. its the best sound i have ever heard, and by a significant distance too. 

At how much $ ?

b_lund posted:

jon honeyball posted:

 

nothing, but nothing, beats 500DR driving Magico S6mk2 in my experience. its the best sound i have ever heard, and by a significant distance too. 

At how much $ ?

chump change from list price I just saw. Thank God I was having my early evening Islay

Manu68 posted:

[@mention:1566878603901653] I had not thought the space I have behind the speakers would be that determinant. Probably naive from me...
Currently I have 10 cm behind them, I can go up to 20 cm but not much more. Is this not enough?

thanks for the recommendation re ATC. I will definitely try them but in active version, I guess it would be redundant with my NAP 250 DR...

thanks to all for your expert inputs 1028be are about

The Focal 1028be have a rear-firing port, as well as one venting out at the front between its feet, hence the need for space to the rear wall. Mine are about 35cm from the rear wall. I've tried them closer but the bass can then boom.  I'm told Sopra 2s also need plenty of space behind. If you're really limited to 20cm, you might do better to explore speakers that can work close to the wall behind them.

Magico make a NAP300DR look cheap!

jon honeyball posted:

i wouldnt buy SL2s now. Time has moved on. Technology in driver design has moved forward a lot. From an engineering point of view, there are some 25 years progress in ATC SCM11 compared to SL2s, and lets not ignore what Magico is doing which is 5-10 years into the future compared to almost every other vendor

SL2s maybe if you want to go active -- but not passive, not today.

How can there be some 25 years progress in ATC SCM11compared with SL2s as SL2s were not introduced until 2002?

You are of course completely wrong about about SL2s driven passively, they more than stand up to comparison with more recent designs as many owners on this site will testify. 

Now for my 2 cents...  I/we investigated a lot of speakers a few months ago and, for our preferences, it came down to a decision between the ATC SCM19 and SCM40. The final choice was the ATC SCM19. We have a 32m2 room with the centre rear of the SCM19 speakers positioned just 14cm from the wall, firing across the shorter room dimension. System is 272-DR, XPS-DR, 250-DR with Herbie's Fat Dots between speaker and (expensive) stands which makes a big difference. To my wife's frustration I keep an open mind but have yet to hear a speaker that I/we prefer, even at more than twice the cost. And our granddaughter thinks they look pretty cool too.

Everyone has their favourite but hope that helps. I now use 'decibel 10' on my iPhone to help normalise audition volumes.

sorry i meant s5mk2

price is around 40k sterling

Hi NewNaim16,  a quick question if I may;  what did you prefer about the 19 over the 40.      I (we) recently checked out SMC19 & SMC40a. Our wish is for an active speaker & drive it from a 282 or 252 & ideally a floor stander so are thinking SMC19a vs SMC40a, but could not get to hear the 19a.  Final choice will be after a house move & & room size will influence that. 

Mike-B posted:

Hi NewNaim16,  a quick question if I may;  what did you prefer about the 19 over the 40.      I (we) recently checked out SMC19 & SMC40a. Our wish is for an active speaker & drive it from a 282 or 252 & ideally a floor stander so are thinking SMC19a vs SMC40a, but could not get to hear the 19a.  Final choice will be after a house move & & room size will influence that. 

It wasn't an easy decision at all but the SCM19 won the day because we felt that although the SCM40 was great at mid to higher volume levels, it all got a bit 'thin' at medium to lower volume levels. The SCM19 particularly impressed us with it's mid-range integration/performance, especially on vocals. We drove to a not-so-close dealer twice to audition the SCM40 because my wife wanted a floor standing speaker but twice we preferred the SCM19, and then home auditioned it. If there wasn't an SCM19 model we'd not be disappointed with the SCM40 and who knows one day we might change but there's no compelling reason for us to do that.

Our room is a 2:1 rectangle shape which was also a factor in favour of the SCM19. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of ATC active speakers when we purchased our 250-DR last year, or else we might have gone active. I'd be very interested to know of your final decision.

Oh and our son is also potentially interested in SCM19 speakers because with suitable stands, his family cat should be less able to reach up and destroy them in the same way that it has his Sonus Faber floor standers - I joke not. And even if his cat is tall enough, one clonk on the head with an ATC grille should discourage it from doing it again  

NewNaim16 posted:

...........    I'd be very interested to know of your final decision.

Thanks for the feedback,  I've taken the liberty to copy it for future ref.    Don't hold yer breath on the house move & new speakers, 2018 at the earliest  

Hi newnaim16, its a shame that your dealer did not let you know that the actives perform better at mid/low volume levels when you were assessing the scm40. if i had a large enough room i would take scm40a over scm19a. thin is not a word i would have used to describe scm40 or scm40a. the crossovers of scm40a compared to scm19a mean that the tweeter does not have to work as hard as it's handing over important parts of the frequency spectrum to the mid driver. the 75mm dedicated mid driver in scm40a is what made atc what it is and is where most of the music is at. it's a masterpiece that others like pmc have attempted to copy. the dedicated bass driver in scm40a remains tight and well controlled and extends well below that of scm19a. however, both scm19a and scm40a are superb. the most important consideration should be your room size and acoustics when deciding between the two.