Powerline dressing

nigelb posted:

Best not to sweat it and enjoy the music. 

Sage advice. 

Timmo1341 posted:

joerand posted:

The crux of the problem to me is that Naim offers Powerlines in only a single length, same as their ICs. One size doesn't fit all so the user is left without options when a shorter cord might be more practical. Hence these questions arise.

One option is to cut the Powerline to a suitable size (readily done at the plug end) but that devalues the resale where that's a concern. Another option is to look at alternative mains cords available in varying lengths, many far less expensive that may yield better results.

Another option is to use a Powerline as is and not get too hung up on how it's "dressed". If you're worried about how a Powerline is laying, what it's touching, or how it's coiled, you may have bigger issues with your system. There's only so much oil to be squeezed from a snake.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head! If this cable dressing really is so very important, would not Naim be offering different lengths of their power and interconnect cables, or at the very least a custom build service? The fact that they seem content to offer just a standard length seems to suggest to me that it really doesn't matter a jot whether a cable touches the floor or not!

This issue has been raised before, and I seem to recall that some cables are made to a specific length to optimise their performance, and that is why Naim are reluctant to offer a range of lengths. What I can't remember is weather that reasoning applies to Powerlines, as opposed to Hilines, Burndies etc.......

nigelb posted:

Sorry, by loops I mean single or multiple 360 degree loops. I have several 180 degree 'bends' in my speaker cables. It is the 360 degree loops that are best avoided, even though they clear up the mess caused by surplus lengths of cable.

Where cables need to cross each other then try to arrange crossing at 90 degrees (without touching if possible) and not running parallel/close to each other.

A degree of pragmatism is required and in certain environments where space is limited and cables lying neatly spaced becomes an eyesore, intricate cable dressing is not possible. Best not to sweat it and enjoy the music. 

Thanks for the clarification. I knew you were referring to a 360 degree loop(s) when you mentioned loops. That is exactly what I did to one of the speaker cables, several 360 degree loops. I don't think I will do a 180 degree bend to the cable as it will ruin the shape of it. To each his own. I have seen this 180 degree arrangement when someone posted a photo on this forum 2 to 3 years ago. Not too sure if the cables were NACA5. The NACA5 is surely too stiff to have a sharp 180 degree bend unless the curvature of the bend is a considerably wide U-shaped parabolic, and the arrangement will require quite a bit of space behind the rack. My current speaker cables are Chord Epic Twin and although the are more flexible than the NACA5, they are rather thick and do not form sharp bends.

In summary, personally I don't think I can get away with the 360 degree multiple loops with the speaker cable, only on one side. What I can do is to ensure all other cables, power cords and interconnects will not run parallel to each other. IF they do run parallel I will try to ensure that there is sufficient space between the cables. Thanks for the heads up. At the end of the day, it's the music that matters and I agree not to sweat it.

Ryder do you realize that 180 degree's is a straight line essentially?

nigelb posted:

I have just caught myself snipping up a piece of old wash sponge and placing it under my Witch Hat DIN/XLR cable to raise it off the carpet and listening for a difference

I wouldn't doubt that somewhere else in the world of Naim someone has snipped-up a piece of old carpet to raise a cable off a hardwood or tile floor and listened for a difference.

The question for me is at what point do you simply accept what you have, sit back, and enjoy the music? Focus on the larger, readily identifiable system aspects and abandon the minutiae. My point being that if you're looking for betterment via a sponge or piece of carpet, bend or coil of a cable, you may be lost in a hopeless chase that is ultimately meaningless. I see these kinds of "tweaks" as pursuits of anality that only you'll be able to rationalize.

OTOH, if such pursuits work for you and you can relax in the end ... great.

Back to what [@mention:36201736949470193] wrote about the length of the PowerLines. I remember reading a reply from @Richard Dane that NAIM optimised the length of their power supply cables running listening tests. 2 meters was the outcome of those tests - applied to both regular Naim cable as well as the Power Line.

joerand posted:

nigelb posted:

I have just caught myself snipping up a piece of old wash sponge and placing it under my Witch Hat DIN/XLR cable to raise it off the carpet and listening for a difference

I wouldn't doubt that somewhere else in the world of Naim someone has snipped-up a piece of old carpet to raise a cable off a hardwood or tile floor and listened for a difference.

The question for me is at what point do you simply accept what you have, sit back, and enjoy the music? Focus on the larger, readily identifiable system aspects and abandon the minutiae. My point being that if you're looking for betterment via a sponge or piece of carpet, bend or coil of a cable, you may be lost in a hopeless chase that is ultimately meaningless. I see these kinds of "tweaks" as pursuits of anality that only you'll be able to rationalize.

OTOH, if such pursuits work for you and you can relax in the end ... great.

Indeed, I was being self-crtical in my post. In my defence it has been ages since I have engaged in such strange behaviour. It was reading this thread and noticing the only lead dangling onto the carpet was my DIN/XLR. The great thing is that I managed to convince myself I hear a positive difference after the sponge went in. It doesn't really matter if there isn't a real difference, I think there is, so there is.

Free upgrade! Whhooppee!!

Just thought of a new revenue stream for Naim - counselling for audio nervosa. They can have that idea on me!

I find new scouring pads better than old wash sponges myself. 

G

GraemeH posted:

I find new scouring pads better than old wash sponges myself. 

G

Ummm...I have found scouring pads can make the sound a little 'abrasive'. Sponge, particularly well used (fully run in) sponge, sounds smoother. 

I've just chiselled out a big hole in my concrete floor so my cables can hang into it. Made a right mess. 

Little foam pad cut offs can be useful to help cables loops stay in shape. I don't have many cable dressing issues in my simple  two boxer, apart from my Chord Sig USB cable. However i pre form it into a nice stress free loop, this cable will eventually sag and touch the wall. One pad placed against the wall and another placed on the bottom shelf of my rack allow the cable to loop freely between server and amp and keep its shape over time. 

Umm….James, your sponge looks posher than mine. I may have to consider upgrading.

Inevitably, after reading through this topic, I visited the plumbers merchant yesterday, and purchased, for an outlay of 98p, a 2m length of foam pipe insulation, which I then cut into 2" chunks and lifted my speaker cables off the wooden floor in the music room.

Any improvement?

Who knows, but it'll be the cheapest upgrade yet which didn't work! 

james n posted:

Little foam pad cut offs can be useful to help cables loops stay in shape. I don't have many cable dressing issues in my simple  two boxer, apart from my Chord Sig USB cable. However i pre form it into a nice stress free loop, this cable will eventually sag and touch the wall. One pad placed against the wall and another placed on the bottom shelf of my rack allow the cable to loop freely between server and amp and keep its shape over time. 

I always imagined that such an arrangement might exert a little extra pressure on the plug/socket compared to a free hanging cable, and that any such loading was bad. (Maybe more relevant to Burndies than USB cables, though?!)

I understand what you are saying Chris. The foam is very compliant so really does provide minimal pressure just to stop the slow sag and still allow a generous bend radius to not stress the USB A socket. 

TBH, USB A and fairly inflexible cables aren't a good combination and from a pure connectivity point of view i prefer the more flexible Chord Silver Plus. From a SQ point of view the Sig TA works better for me. At least with Burndy cables, once you've preformed them they tend to stay in shape but they do prefer to hang. My old 300 was very sensitive to Burndy dressing. 

dave marshall posted:

Inevitably, after reading through this topic, I visited the plumbers merchant yesterday, and purchased, for an outlay of 98p, a 2m length of foam pipe insulation, which I then cut into 2" chunks and lifted my speaker cables off the wooden floor in the music room.

Any improvement?

Who knows, but it'll be the cheapest upgrade yet which didn't work! 

Dave, for heavens sake, please stop making such posts! I have just caught myself in Wicks buying foam pipe insulation, although I think I was ripped off at 99p for a 1m length. ALL my cables are now off the ground, well those in the listening room.

Having a first listen to my upgraded system now so we'll see if I can detect any change. If not, I amused myself for an hour on my day off while listening to some great music.

Please, no more tweakery. These trips to the DIY store are distracting me from listening to music - remember, the reason we have a HiFi in the first place. 

nigelb posted:

dave marshall posted:

Inevitably, after reading through this topic, I visited the plumbers merchant yesterday, and purchased, for an outlay of 98p, a 2m length of foam pipe insulation, which I then cut into 2" chunks and lifted my speaker cables off the wooden floor in the music room.

Any improvement?

Who knows, but it'll be the cheapest upgrade yet which didn't work! 

Dave, for heavens sake, please stop making such posts! I have just caught myself in Wicks buying foam pipe insulation, although I think I was ripped off at 99p for a 1m length. ALL my cables are now off the ground, well those in the listening room.

Having a first listen to my upgraded system now so we'll see if I can detect any change. If not, I amused myself for an hour on my day off while listening to some great music.

Please, no more tweakery. These trips to the DIY store are distracting me from listening to music - remember, the reason we have a HiFi in the first place. 

Well, you started it!

But you're right, back to the music room. 

This is starting to remind me of a woman I dated briefly back in the late '80s  (give or take a few years). She had a large apartment in central London, she was powering a set of Magneplanars with a pair of Krell monoblocs, and was experimenting with suspending the Maggies from the.) ceiling (with some seriously strong wires), I think the idea had been in one of the magazines. (My memory is that it sounded pretty dire.) A couple of weeks later the experiment was over, the weather had warmed up, and her flat was unearably hot in large part due to the heat from the Krells. So she opened the windows to let the breeze in, and several grand of speakers starting swaying unnervingly in the wind.

james n posted:

I understand what you are saying Chris. The foam is very compliant so really does provide minimal pressure just to stop the slow sag and still allow a generous bend radius to not stress the USB A socket. 

TBH, USB A and fairly inflexible cables aren't a good combination and from a pure connectivity point of view i prefer the more flexible Chord Silver Plus. From a SQ point of view the Sig TA works better for me. At least with Burndy cables, once you've preformed them they tend to stay in shape but they do prefer to hang. My old 300 was very sensitive to Burndy dressing. 

Just speculation on my part, James, rather than a judgement. This stuff has been on my mind a little, as I will soon have to rebuild my system after an extensive room refurb and rewire. I was hoping I could 'engineer out' some of my cable dressing issues, but that is probably being way optimistic! 

dave marshall posted:

nigelb posted:

dave marshall posted:

Inevitably, after reading through this topic, I visited the plumbers merchant yesterday, and purchased, for an outlay of 98p, a 2m length of foam pipe insulation, which I then cut into 2" chunks and lifted my speaker cables off the wooden floor in the music room.

Any improvement?

Who knows, but it'll be the cheapest upgrade yet which didn't work! 

Dave, for heavens sake, please stop making such posts! I have just caught myself in Wicks buying foam pipe insulation, although I think I was ripped off at 99p for a 1m length. ALL my cables are now off the ground, well those in the listening room.

Having a first listen to my upgraded system now so we'll see if I can detect any change. If not, I amused myself for an hour on my day off while listening to some great music.

Please, no more tweakery. These trips to the DIY store are distracting me from listening to music - remember, the reason we have a HiFi in the first place. 

Well, you started it!

But you're right, back to the music room. 

Well come on Dave. You installed the foam pipe insulation first and your system will be the most sensitive. So what effect has it had? My matching grey (to SuperLumina) Wicks foam pipe insulation risers have had a significant effect (I think) but I will let you go first and tell the Naim World!

Don't be shy - share all.

nigelb posted:

dave marshall posted:

nigelb posted:

dave marshall posted:

Inevitably, after reading through this topic, I visited the plumbers merchant yesterday, and purchased, for an outlay of 98p, a 2m length of foam pipe insulation, which I then cut into 2" chunks and lifted my speaker cables off the wooden floor in the music room.

Any improvement?

Who knows, but it'll be the cheapest upgrade yet which didn't work! 

Dave, for heavens sake, please stop making such posts! I have just caught myself in Wicks buying foam pipe insulation, although I think I was ripped off at 99p for a 1m length. ALL my cables are now off the ground, well those in the listening room.

Having a first listen to my upgraded system now so we'll see if I can detect any change. If not, I amused myself for an hour on my day off while listening to some great music.

Please, no more tweakery. These trips to the DIY store are distracting me from listening to music - remember, the reason we have a HiFi in the first place. 

Well, you started it!

But you're right, back to the music room. 

Well come on Dave. You installed the foam pipe insulation first and your system will be the most sensitive. So what effect has it had? My matching grey (to SuperLumina) Wicks foam pipe insulation risers have had a significant effect (I think) but I will let you go first and tell the Naim World!

Don't be shy - share all.

Hi Nigel,

I can't really say whether the latest upgrade has improved SQ chez Dave, though there might just be a discernible lift as far as the speaker cables are concerned ........ well, a 2" lift at least.

The floor is yours .......... 

dave marshall posted:

nigelb posted:

dave marshall posted:

nigelb posted:

dave marshall posted:

Inevitably, after reading through this topic, I visited the plumbers merchant yesterday, and purchased, for an outlay of 98p, a 2m length of foam pipe insulation, which I then cut into 2" chunks and lifted my speaker cables off the wooden floor in the music room.

Any improvement?

Who knows, but it'll be the cheapest upgrade yet which didn't work! 

Dave, for heavens sake, please stop making such posts! I have just caught myself in Wicks buying foam pipe insulation, although I think I was ripped off at 99p for a 1m length. ALL my cables are now off the ground, well those in the listening room.

Having a first listen to my upgraded system now so we'll see if I can detect any change. If not, I amused myself for an hour on my day off while listening to some great music.

Please, no more tweakery. These trips to the DIY store are distracting me from listening to music - remember, the reason we have a HiFi in the first place. 

Well, you started it!

But you're right, back to the music room. 

Well come on Dave. You installed the foam pipe insulation first and your system will be the most sensitive. So what effect has it had? My matching grey (to SuperLumina) Wicks foam pipe insulation risers have had a significant effect (I think) but I will let you go first and tell the Naim World!

Don't be shy - share all.

Hi Nigel,

I can't really say whether the latest upgrade has improved SQ chez Dave, though there might just be a discernible lift as far as the speaker cables are concerned ........ well, a 2" lift at least.

The floor is yours .......... 

As you suggest Dave, the difference is not huge but I think I do decern a nice change. I would have thought lifting cables (power and speaker in my case) would most likely affect the bass but, if there is a difference, it is more in the upper frequencies where I believe things are a fraction sharper (in a good way) with a tad better definition, a tiny bit more polished if you like. This may be my imagination, but I think I am enjoying a wee more PRaT also.

This of course could all be self delusion, but the foam is staying.

nigelb posted:

dave marshall posted:

nigelb posted:

dave marshall posted:

nigelb posted:

dave marshall posted:

Inevitably, after reading through this topic, I visited the plumbers merchant yesterday, and purchased, for an outlay of 98p, a 2m length of foam pipe insulation, which I then cut into 2" chunks and lifted my speaker cables off the wooden floor in the music room.

Any improvement?

Who knows, but it'll be the cheapest upgrade yet which didn't work! 

Dave, for heavens sake, please stop making such posts! I have just caught myself in Wicks buying foam pipe insulation, although I think I was ripped off at 99p for a 1m length. ALL my cables are now off the ground, well those in the listening room.

Having a first listen to my upgraded system now so we'll see if I can detect any change. If not, I amused myself for an hour on my day off while listening to some great music.

Please, no more tweakery. These trips to the DIY store are distracting me from listening to music - remember, the reason we have a HiFi in the first place. 

Well, you started it!

But you're right, back to the music room. 

Well come on Dave. You installed the foam pipe insulation first and your system will be the most sensitive. So what effect has it had? My matching grey (to SuperLumina) Wicks foam pipe insulation risers have had a significant effect (I think) but I will let you go first and tell the Naim World!

Don't be shy - share all.

Hi Nigel,

I can't really say whether the latest upgrade has improved SQ chez Dave, though there might just be a discernible lift as far as the speaker cables are concerned ........ well, a 2" lift at least.

The floor is yours .......... 

As you suggest Dave, the difference is not huge but I think I do decern a nice change. I would have thought lifting cables (power and speaker in my case) would most likely affect the bass but, if there is a difference, it is more in the upper frequencies where I believe things are a fraction sharper (in a good way) with a tad better definition, a tiny bit more polished if you like. This may be my imagination, but I think I am enjoying a wee more PRaT also.

This of course could all be self delusion, but the foam is staying.

Ah, the slippery slope, Nigel, how long before you upgrade to audio grade pipe insulation, or these, even ........

      .........and they're only £840.00 for six!!!!!!

The fun simply never stops. 

Thanks Dave, I think I have spotted a business opportunity here which involves snipping up foam pipe insulation, some fancy packaging and a dollop of hype. Should be able to undercut the competition and still make a few quid. You must let me know where you got your foam tubes from, I think I was done! 

You guys need to think outside the box a bit - 

Plentiful supply (especially if you enjoy a Friday night curry...) . Should get your margins up Nigel