272 + 2549 + 300

Well done Huge, our old fav Mogami's again. What brand plugs did you end up using? you hinted you might try my favourite Neutrik REAN's

Yep, with you on the Mogami Huge. All my SNAXO to 500 DIN to XLRs are W2549, as is the 552 to Supercap for SNAXO. I'm sure the likes of Super Sarum etc. would be a further improvement but for now I'm just content with the benefit over the standard Naim issue.

Mike,

I found some Preh DINs I already had, so I used them (actually, personally I've never been able to hear an improvement by loosening the collars, so while the REANs are definitely better constructed I don't think I'd benefit sonically).

The XLRs are Neutrik.

Tonym,

Yes, I think you may be right, but I'm not soon going to be paying the price of a 555PS for a set of Chord Music or SL cables (I need 8m speaker cables, and that gets very expensive)!  For now I'll do with W2549 interconnects, DNM Resolution speaker cables, Chord C-Line to the sub and Chord C-Stream to the switch.  Seems to work for me.

P.S.  I forgot to mention: As each cable is mono, they're wired pseudo-differential.

That's very interesting. We're currently auditioning a Super Lumina cable between our NAC-N 272 and NAP 250-DR and although we can easily hear the difference, I'm not at all sure that it's the sound for us and Mrs NewNaim16 is convinced about that. Even with shorter matching speaker leads it's still pretty expensive. Making a DIN/XLR cable out of some Mogami W2549 will be easy enough, I think that I'll give it a try.

BTW, did you ever test a Witch Hat DIN/XLR cable?

Huge posted:

 

Tonym,

Yes, I think you may be right, but I'm not soon going to be paying the price of a 555PS for a set of Chord Music or SL cables (I need 8m speaker cables, and that gets very expensive)!  

 

Feel my pain then - I need three pairs of 9 metre long speaker cables. The existing NACA5 is sounding pretty damn good...

There must be a reason why naim used the very thin wires for DIN-XLR duties.

Maybe this below?

Eddy Currents
Once the cross-sectional area of a cable exceeds a certain size, things begin to go badly wrong with the sound. Complex interactions between the cable and the magnetic fields generated by transmission of an electrical signal cause circulating eddy currents, which also generate significant magnetic fields.

These induced magnetic fields oppose the original signal - the result is distortion. In short - smaller cross-sectional area gives greater clarity.

Yes, Mogami wire is seriously good sounding. Does nothing wrong and has a coherence that most cables lack. It really does just get out of the way

Have you tried the speaker cables? I'd recommend you do 

analogmusic posted:

There must be a reason why naim used the very thin wires for DIN-XLR duties.

They had plenty of 3A mains cable knocking around and it did the job ?

analogmusic posted:

In short - smaller cross-sectional area gives greater clarity.

 

 

You've not seen Mogami W2549 cable then.

Does anyone have any suggestions on where to buy Mogami W2549 cable in the UK? Based on my admittedly limited search, I've not yet found a source and although not difficult, a special US import seems absurd!

NewNaim16 posted:

Does anyone have any suggestions on where to buy Mogami W2549 cable in the UK? Based on my admittedly limited search, I've not yet found a source and although not difficult, a special US import seems absurd!

HHB (Google them). You have to e-mail them & ask for a quote for the quantity required, but they're extremely efficient and very helpful. 

tonym posted:

NewNaim16 posted:

Does anyone have any suggestions on where to buy Mogami W2549 cable in the UK? Based on my admittedly limited search, I've not yet found a source and although not difficult, a special US import seems absurd!

HHB (Google them). You have to e-mail them & ask for a quote for the quantity required, but they're extremely efficient and very helpful. 

Got it, thanks very much!

Yep, that's where I got mine from.  Worth getting enough to see you through as the postage (which includes the cost of processing the order by hand as they're a small outfit) can easily cost more than the wire itself!

I use  RedCo,  Stratford, CT., USA.    They have excellent stocks, including a full choice of all Mogami colours.  They stock more cable types & brands plus any/all plugs & sockets than any outlet I know of anywhere,  its like a DIY cable makers aladdin's cave.  They also make any cable to your spec service if your soldering skills are not up to it.   Ordering is on-line (www) & all the usual CC's & PayPal.   I found their price per foot (they don't do metre's) beats anything in Europe. Post/shipping although higher is not that much & probably still makes them competitive.  

Daft Apeth posted:

Yes, Mogami wire is seriously good sounding. Does nothing wrong and has a coherence that most cables lack. It really does just get out of the way

Have you tried the speaker cables? I'd recommend you do 

W2549 and W2534 also manage to preserve detail that many cables lose, without this coming at a cost of coherence.

I use a sub to cover much of the bass region, so, for speaker cable, I use DNM resolution for just those same reasons.

Its main fault is a high-ish resistance (1.33mm² cross sectional area) and hence sounding a bit bass light, which isn't a problem for me.  Its electrical characteristics are also a better match to Naim Classic series poweramps than is the case for Mogami speaker cables.

Huge posted:

W2549 and W2534 also manage to preserve detail that many cables lose, without this coming at a cost of coherence.

Do you have any observations on the real world difference between W2549 and W2534 in short ≤ 1m lengths? Although not impossible, terminating two pieces of W2549 into a DIN connector won't be terribly elegant.

Huge posted:

Yep, that's where I got mine from.  Worth getting enough to see you through as the postage (which includes the cost of processing the order by hand as they're a small outfit) can easily cost more than the wire itself!

Yes, agreed on the quantity. I now wish that I'd ordered more Herbie's Fat Dots when I imported mine.

NewNaim16 posted:

................  Although not impossible, terminating two pieces of W2549 into a DIN connector won't be terribly elegant.

Its not elegant,  but it is possible.  There are other ways I would do it next time,  but this is DIY & maybe we are infringing forum rules.   Not sure what you are planning,  the 272 has two (parallel pair) 4-pin DIN outputs for connecting a 300, 

Hi Mike NewNaim16 uses a NAP250DR not a 300, so needs a stereo 4 pin 240° DIN to stereo 3 pin XLR.

NewNaim16 posted:

Huge posted:

W2549 and W2534 also manage to preserve detail that many cables lose, without this coming at a cost of coherence.

Do you have any observations on the real world difference between W2549 and W2534 in short ≤ 1m lengths? Although not impossible, terminating two pieces of W2549 into a DIN connector won't be terribly elegant.

Yes, see this...

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...nterconnects-inc-diy

It's fairly extensive, but quite comprehensive as a result.

The alternative is to use the two cores of W2549 to carry L & R, and use the screen for the combined return (this also works well).

Huge posted:

Hi Mike NewNaim16 uses a NAP250DR not a 300, so needs a stereo 4 pin 240° DIN to stereo 3 pin XLR.

I was wondering about that & why the question about doubling up a pair of cables into the Preh.    100% (+1)  for 2549 using L&R pair & screen for return (-ve)    Thats what I have with my DIN-DIN's & it carries the same topology as a 3 pin XLR, so what's not like.

Mike,

I think he may have been proposing a pseudo-balanced cable where the screen is connected at the source end only, then using the 4 cores for L + 0v & R + 0v.

In that configuration, soldering the 0v* connection on the DIN is quite a challenge in such a confined space (I know, I've done it on a 180° 5 pin DIN!).

*  For historical reasons, Naim refer to the 0v connection as -ve, but I'm fairly sure that for neither the NAC-N272 nor the NAP250DR does it actually carry the -ve rail voltage (-15V for the 272 and somewhere about -35v to -45V for the 250).

Like I said in my previous post,  2549 carries the same topology as a 3 pin XLR, so why not just use what its made for.    I would be OK with pseudo-balance in a line (signal) level cable & even more logical with phono (mV) level, but I don't see the point with a pre-pwr.

*    Naim have always called the 0v DIN pin -ve.  It connects to a common signal ground & 0vDC.   The asymmetric rail DC power voltages are (e.g.)  +15v & -15v (two rail) around a common 0v (-ve).   

Mike, as it's after the volume attenuator, a preamp to poweramp link is often carrying a smaller signal than a source to preamp link.

In my case I seem to have high levels of RFI floating around so I use pseudo-balanced when I can (but I agree: Not generally necessary at line level, and a really good unbalanced cable will usually be preferable to a pseudo-balanced of lower intrinsic quality).

*  The historical reason for calling the 0v pin -ve, is due to the poweramp providing a single rail power supply for the preamp: For dual rail amplifiers this nomenclature for the 0v connection is inappropriate (and actually inaccurate).

Huge posted:

Mike,

I think he may have been proposing a pseudo-balanced cable where the screen is connected at the source end only, then using the 4 cores for L + 0v & R + 0v.

In that configuration, soldering the 0v* connection on the DIN is quite a challenge in such a confined space (I know, I've done it on a 180° 5 pin DIN!).

*  For historical reasons, Naim refer to the 0v connection as -ve, but I'm fairly sure that for neither the NAC-N272 nor the NAP250DR does it actually carry the -ve rail voltage (-15V for the 272 and somewhere about -35v to -45V for the 250).

Yes, using the 4 cores for L + 0v & R + 0v is exactly what I had in mind as it seemed to me to be the theoretically cleanest approach although I had considered using L&R pair & screen for return (-ve). I'll order some Mogami W2549 to make my own interconnect and see what the effect is compared with the standard item.