Nat01 vs Nat05XS

The 05 is superieur with cable. With an old fashion roofantenne it's so so is my experience.

Hi Robiwan,  you've obviously never heard a real FM roof antenna,  what make/type have you heard to say this??         

I've had an olive NAT01 for 10 years and had it serviced 5 years back. Love it and great when the NDS implodes due to our awful internet speeds around here. I run mine with a 6 element roof mounted aerial- nice and high and in direct line of sight of the transmitter. Full quieting and no need for Ron Smith's chimney killing rig on the roof - were in an AONB in any case so no chance even if we were mad enough to try and install it. Just get a decent quality downlead.

Aerial is being fitted tomorrow while the scaffolding is still in place. Antiference. My fitter advised that three pole would be fine due to the clear line of sight, elevated position and signal strength and as it will have to share the mast with the TV aerial discretion is winning the day. I'm in discussion with my dealer about the 01. It sounds like it will need to go back to Naim for servicing which will obviously impact the cost in the upward direction but I'm leaning more and more towards it as opposed to the 05XS, good though that doubtless is. Does anyone have any experience of using upgraded PS on the 05XS? That wasn't an option on the 05 I think.

Mike-B posted:

Hi Robiwan,  you've obviously never heard a real FM roof antenna,  what make/type have you heard to say this??         

dynalab

I've never heard a real roof antenna - don't they need to be connected to something?

Seriously I trust my ears - full signal and no hiss is good enough for me. If you're in a good signal area you don't need scaffolding on the roof and if anything signal overload can be worse!

I bought a NAT01 from a 'good' dealer for an eye watering amount of money only to find that it was well and truly dead on arrival. The sight of smoke coming from the power supply of a one thousand pound tuner put me off vintage kit for life and I subsequently bought a NAT05XS which was pretty good - however, I recently bought a Flatcap XS to power my phonostage and it had the added benefit of also being able to power my tuner; what a huge difference in quality it makes.  Prior to the flatcap my tuner was outclassed by both my vinyl and digital source, now it holds its own easily with a good radio station and I use it a lot.

I home demmed a NAT02 with my 3 element yagi and was disappointed. It was explained to me by a forum member that this is the equivalent of putting a Koetsu on a mid eighties Rega Planar 3. This image helped me and might help you.

C.

Robiwan posted:

dynalab

If that was the M.Dynalab ST-2,  it's not a good example of a real antenna, it's a single 1/2 wave & does not have any gain. In the right conditions they do work, but a multi-element dipole is far better.

Shame on the dealer then as it should have been tested before sale! I purchased mine from a well known dealer in Hertfordshire 10 years back, pristine as it is now. I had it serviced by Naim 5 years ago and it's in use almost every day without issue. OK it was £1000 and the service cost almost 500 but over 10 years enjoyment pretty good vfm and I'd probably still get a good price if I sold. Yes vintage can be an issue but not if cared for and maintained - as my Revox B77 attests. Properly restored by one of the few remains people who know what they're doing a couple of years back  - not bad for 1980

On the subject of service I think it's fair to say that it's only Naim that is able to re-align the tuning head which should be done as part of the service.

Robiwan posted:

Mike-B posted:

Hi Robiwan,  you've obviously never heard a real FM roof antenna,  what make/type have you heard to say this??         

dynalab

Looking at Dynalab antennas they seem to only currently produce the ST2 which is an end fed halfwave antenna which could go in the loft. Although they have a theoretical gain of 2.15 dBi (isotropic gain) because they are end fed they need large inefficient coupling transformers which will loose a fair amount of signal. You would be better off with a regular vertical dipole with the connection in the middle which has a far more suitable impedance for your coax and radio and you will get most of 2.15dBi. Putting elements in front, directors, and behind, the reflector, creates a Yagi antenna - these provide additional directional gain over the dipole  and directionality. A 3 element Yagi has a gain of approx.  7.5dBD i.e. 7.5 dB over the gain of a dipole or roughly 9.6dBi. A 5 element Yagi will provide roughly 9.5dBD or 11.6dBi. Again the impedance at the feed point using a Balun/transformer is often more suited for coax and the radio.

BTW I think Galaxie Antennas use isotropic gain instead of gain over a dipole. So if the case subtract 2.15dB from their gain to get the gain over a dipole.

Simon, At some point I'm considering a five element Yagi for my NAT03, rather than the 3 element that I have at the moment. Will that be much better for me? (Both the little green lights light up now with the existing 3 element).

Aplogies to the the OP.

C.

Do you get any noticeable noise on FM stereo - best try Radio 3 as that uses low dynamic compression. If not then you should be fine - if you do then the 5 element will give some useful extra gain. I find the NAT03 needs a little bit of extra help from the aerial compared to my NAT05

I bought a Ron Smith Galaxie 17 to see if it was an improvement on the standard TV aerial. It's a big beast , and I set it up temporarily in the basement. The sound was so much better that I just kept it in the corner of the basement and didnt bother putting it on the roof. The tuner at that stage was a Tandberg 3001 , and then the Nat01 replaced that. I reckon that if you're getting a good tuner , you're not getting the full monty if you dont have a good aerial.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Do you get any noticeable noise on FM stereo - best try Radio 3 as that uses low dynamic compression.

No hiss on R3 in those famous silences. Thanks Simon, I'll probably leave as is.

Now back to Mark's thread...

C.

Antiference TV and FM aerials newly installed. Strong signal evidently according to the fitters meter. TV signal is certainly 100% according to all three tellies. Proof will be when I get the Tuner installed. That will be a while unfortunately. Nice and shiny for the moment. The old TV aerial was totally covered in bird sh** and the feeble dipoles were bent downwards which explained the crap (sorry) signal I was getting. The guy that fitted this knew about the Ron Smith aerials as he used to supply him with aluminium. Considered them very well made but was convinced it would be massive overkill in my location. Let's hope his advice holds true.

Looks a good job. I'd be happy with that 

Yes, certainly very neat inside where all the cables come together in the roof space. Everything labled. He was certainly very helpful and ran quite a few cables which he hadn't quoted for without charging extra. Great service. Always nice to meet someone knowledgable and proud of their workmanship.

Aha, antenna porn!! Things of great aesthetic beauty I reckon. Here's my big 'un, a Ron Smith G17.

Connected to this. Gets a lot of use too, sometimes I don't listen to anything else for days, until they start playing opera.

Should also have mentioned I've never heard an 05XS, but the 01 is vastly superior to a NAT03 I owned for about ten years.

bazz posted:

Aha, antenna porn!! Things of great aesthetic beauty I reckon. Here's my big 'un, a Ron Smith G17.

Connected to this. Gets a lot of use too, sometimes I don't listen to anything else for days, until they start playing opera.

 

01 is classic design- simple and elegant.   Happen to have one myself!  My most used source.     david

Marksnaim posted:

Antiference TV and FM aerials newly installed. Strong signal evidently according to the fitters meter. TV signal is certainly 100% according to all three tellies. Proof will be when I get the Tuner installed. That will be a while unfortunately. Nice and shiny for the moment. ..............  The guy that fitted this knew about the Ron Smith aerials as he used to supply him with aluminium. Considered them very well made but was convinced it would be massive overkill in my location. Let's hope his advice holds true.

Looks like a job well done Marksnaim,  FM from Wrotham & TV from Crystal Palace 

bazz posted:

 

One of my favourite looking Naim products along with the Nait 1 and NAT 101.

Still looks great 

bazz posted:

Aha, antenna porn!! Things of great aesthetic beauty I reckon. Here's my big 'un, a Ron Smith G17.

Connected to this. Gets a lot of use too, sometimes I don't listen to anything else for days, until they start playing opera.

 

I really wish I'd taken a picture of the aerial at my last house. It was in a large dip, so when Ron and George came and did the installation, they decided I needed a further 3 elements, so I ended up with a Galaxie 20 (17+3) on the roof. That was a monster! I now live in a conservation area, but luckily within a mile of a relay station. Hence when we moved here I bought a hundred or so new nuts and bolts and rebuilt it as a G17 which hangs in the loft on nylon cable. It is rotated by 90deg owing to the signal being vertically polarised. The roof is Cotswold stone, but the signal and sound from the NAT01 is way better than in my last house. I use double screened satellite cable for the connection wire and a brass plug.

BTW Bazz, a live opera broadcast on BBC R3 can sound superb!

Yes, well, opera was never my cup of tea. 

I'm only 19km from a 250kw transmitter and pretty well line of sight, so the G17 is probably overkill, but I got it cheap when the then new Naim distributor in Oz inherited with existing stock many years ago and didn't quite know what to do with it.

It doesn't overload the tuner's front end and sounds great, so all is good.