Stillpoints

Mr Underhill posted:

I find supports interesting. They are measures I have put in place as a form of autonomic response, without really hearing an improvement. That was until a few months ago when I put some cheap spikes under my Bel Canto 3.5vbs DAC, and that REALLY did bring the music up a notch - tighter and more transparent. I replaced these with some cheap wooden cones, sound went back to where it was.

Keler, I am sad to hear about your 912. I use an 868, and currently have a Mission sorborthane footed board under it, now I will be tempted to experiment .....but, I will resist the siren call of spending hundreds on metal/wooden widgets.

This, from the man who in the last few months has spent £1k on LPSUs!

Where are my meds?

M

i don't understand when you say you are sad about my 912. What do you mean? my english is limited, so i loose something here...  My cerapucks are since a long time on my ear 912, i am glad with it. But ceraballs will do the same, because the weight is under 20kg( 40 pounds? i think).

I bought also recently an uptone audio js2 for my unitserve and switch, and the effect is quite dramatic.  But my bank account is sad....

If you told about cost, 3 ceraballs under the ear preamp is not cost effective and the effect is very significative.  Stillpoints, hrs , are much more expensive, but i think it is excessive and not sure it is much better under components.  But under speakers, if one day i buy bigger ones, i will invest in stillpoints.

Resonance control makes sense, but but comes at a price. If possible check out Darkz from Ansuz acoustics. Works both under speakers, racks and individual components. Not cheap but the cheapest version is much cheaper than stillpoints.

Why should it be a problem to use Silent Mounts or similar under speakers placed on a carpet? Makes no sense.

Claus

I tried a set of Silentmounts under my DBLs. Outrageously expensive for what they are, & they made the speakers sound dull. Upside down Naim Chips are much better.

Herbie's Giant Fat Gliders work well at my house and the price is right.  Under $100 per speaker, plus shipping.

I went to the stillpoints website. How surprised I was (not!) to find absolutely no technical measurements of the efficacy of these things. No vibration/accelerometer data at all. Nothing. 

Its all belief. AKA religion.

Now, if thats the case, 800 quid per bit of machined metal seems a positive bargain for what is essentially jewellery.

Indeed, I'd argue that they should be 8000 each, then im sure the believers would believe even more.

Or you could act like a grownup, buy an accelerometer, and measure it. Cos if you think there is anything mystical and unmeasurable happening here, then more fool you...

jon honeyball posted:

I went to the stillpoints website. How surprised I was (not!) to find absolutely no technical measurements of the efficacy of these things. No vibration/accelerometer data at all. Nothing. 

Have you found anything similar for Fraim or Naim chips?

jon honeyball posted:

I went to the stillpoints website. How surprised I was (not!) to find absolutely no technical measurements of the efficacy of these things. No vibration/accelerometer data at all. Nothing. 

Its all belief. AKA religion.

Now, if thats the case, 800 quid per bit of machined metal seems a positive bargain for what is essentially jewellery.

Indeed, I'd argue that they should be 8000 each, then im sure the believers would believe even more.

Or you could act like a grownup, buy an accelerometer, and measure it. Cos if you think there is anything mystical and unmeasurable happening here, then more fool you...

They work as advertised..

joerand posted:

jon honeyball posted:

I went to the stillpoints website. How surprised I was (not!) to find absolutely no technical measurements of the efficacy of these things. No vibration/accelerometer data at all. Nothing. 

Have you found anything similar for Fraim or Naim chips?

Fraim Chips are floor protectors.  They are designed to protect your floor from spike damage. I'm not entirely sure what data is required here.

Kevin Richardson posted:

jon honeyball posted:

I went to the stillpoints website. How surprised I was (not!) to find absolutely no technical measurements of the efficacy of these things. No vibration/accelerometer data at all. Nothing. 

Its all belief. AKA religion.

Now, if thats the case, 800 quid per bit of machined metal seems a positive bargain for what is essentially jewellery.

Indeed, I'd argue that they should be 8000 each, then im sure the believers would believe even more.

Or you could act like a grownup, buy an accelerometer, and measure it. Cos if you think there is anything mystical and unmeasurable happening here, then more fool you...

They work as advertised..

On the Stillpoints website the only things they abvertse them doing is lowering your noise floor, lasting many lifetimes, and performing without change or degradation after a short break-in period. (These are generic claims for stillpoints, there being nothing at all on the Ultra 5 page of their website.)

So, in terms of affecting hifi, it seems that all Stillpoints are claimed to do when placed under speakers is lower the noise floor.  Do they? (You didn't mention noise floor in your commentary in an earlier post)

joerand posted:

jon honeyball posted:

I went to the stillpoints website. How surprised I was (not!) to find absolutely no technical measurements of the efficacy of these things. No vibration/accelerometer data at all. Nothing. 

Have you found anything similar for Fraim or Naim chips?

Two different things.

Fraim -- yes, I think Naim should have the balls to come up with some engineering information about how and why Fraim works. After all, i dont see any patents involved here. And what goes into a fraim is pretty obvious -- wood, balls, glass, spikes etc. There's nothing here thats hidden away inside an epoxy block, to protect IPR.

Chips -- they are designed solely as spike protectors for wooden floors. They do that role admirably well.

I am not sure about other hifi manufacturers. As far as I know only Finite Elemente has a white paper which describes on the sound optimisation methods of their hifi racks. They have collaborated with University of Applied Sciences Dortmund with Prof. Dr. Borchert as the lead researcher in the development of the resonator technology of the racks. They have actually carried out modal analysis and measured the resonances(frequencies) in the rack with outputs and graphs plotted. It's certainly a no-nonsense engineering approach. It is unfortunate that Finite Elemente is now out of business for unknown reasons.

For anyone who is interested, the link to the white paper can be found on Positive Feedback Issue 79, a review on the Finite Elemente Pagode APS amp stand.

To be clear I have absolutely no issue with a company selling spikes or tables or things that suspend your power amp from the ceiling and saying "we have no idea how it works or what it is actually doing, but we like it -- you might too". That has integrity. To claim all sorts of vibrational mumbo jumbo and not back it up seems somewhat dishonest to me. 

jon honeyball posted:

To be clear I have absolutely no issue with a company selling spikes or tables or things that suspend your power amp from the ceiling and saying "we have no idea how it works or what it is actually doing, but we like it -- you might too". That has integrity. To claim all sorts of vibrational mumbo jumbo and not back it up seems somewhat dishonest to me. 

stillpoints are acclaimed by users all over the world, on most hifi magazines and forums. Try under your speakers and you will be very very surprised. The principe inside are ceramic balls.

Stillpoints are the most expensive, but you have also finite elemente, neodio, nordost , frantz audio, magico m pods...which are developing the same components.  For me it is an essential product under loudspeakers first. I use finite elemente cerabases and the effect is whaou!

The full fat Stillpoints Rack works out to some £30-40 + grand. Maybe if I could afford the 4 piece DCS digital set that is often shown together with the stillpoints - I might consider it.

As is with most of these things, it's simply a case of Suck it and See.

They can be acclaimed by anyone who wants to. Doesn't change my evaluation methodology. 

Having the Finite Elements pagoda MR rack myself, I decided not to go further with the ceraball devices under my amp and dac, as the biggest criticism I think of these sort of things is that the effect is so dependent on where they are positioned and I just don't need the faff to find it.

Before when I used Nordost pulsar points on another rack I was often more involved subconsciously listening into wether I had them just so, rather than relaxing into a listening session.

Unlike the ones that are fit and forget under speakers and the ones supporting the rack.

TOBYJUG posted:

The full fat Stillpoints Rack works out to some £30-40 + grand. Maybe if I could afford the 4 piece DCS digital set that is often shown together with the stillpoints - I might consider it.

As is with most of these things, it's simply a case of Suck it and See.

all is relative. With 800+ grand of gear, the stillpoints rack can be justified. I you have a continuum caliburn turntable or boulder 350 monos amplifiers, the weight of each is more than 200 pounds....  Some have a naim fraim with a nait 5 integrated and rega p3.....it is also excessive in this case.

jon honeyball posted:

They can be acclaimed by anyone who wants to. Doesn't change my evaluation methodology. 

the best evaluation is your ears....

TOBYJUG posted:

Having the Finite Elements pagoda MR rack myself, I decided not to go further with the ceraball devices under my amp and dac, as the biggest criticism I think of these sort of things is that the effect is so dependent on where they are positioned and I just don't need the faff to find it.

Before when I used Nordost pulsar points on another rack I was often more involved subconsciously listening into wether I had them just so, rather than relaxing into a listening session.

Unlike the ones that are fit and forget under speakers and the ones supporting the rack.

yes, the right decoupling is not so easy and takes some time. For myself, i use only the bases of my cerapucks, not the entire ones, under my ear yoshino preamp. I prefer the balance of the sound like that. 

With all humility, I have the most fantastic Hi-Fi I've ever heard, and I've heard a few (but clearly not all).

Not one element of it has been verified, validated or endorsed by a single measurement, apart from those pink flappy things either side of my head. 

I agree that religion/belief can play a part (pace fans of Peter Belt), but I know by ear when something is better or worse.

So we can definitely conclude, with the possibility of a double blind test - within reason that it's the Blind Leading the Blind.

Still, didn't do Jesus any harm..

Gary Shaw posted:

With all humility, I have the most fantastic Hi-Fi I've ever heard, and I've heard a few (but clearly not all).

 

Ah, but you've not added the magical Stillpoints. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Gary Shaw posted:

With all humility, I have the most fantastic Hi-Fi I've ever heard, and I've heard a few (but clearly not all).

 

Ah, but you've not added the magical Stillpoints. 

I think I have, via a chum. Sounded worse under the Naim boxes than just plonked on the Hutter.

Might have been another sort of support, but... nothing ventured nothing gained

Gary Shaw posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Gary Shaw posted:

With all humility, I have the most fantastic Hi-Fi I've ever heard, and I've heard a few (but clearly not all).

 

Ah, but you've not added the magical Stillpoints. 

I think I have, via a chum. Sounded worse under the Naim boxes than just plonked on the Hutter.

Might have been another sort of support, but... nothing ventured nothing gained

yes, under naim boxes it is not a good thing.

Still, the points can't be as weird as having a box filled with antimatter and alyankovician for a grounding device.