Stillpoints

jon honeyball posted:

To be clear I have absolutely no issue with a company selling spikes or tables or things that suspend your power amp from the ceiling and saying "we have no idea how it works or what it is actually doing, but we like it -- you might too". That has integrity. To claim all sorts of vibrational mumbo jumbo and not back it up seems somewhat dishonest to me. 

Jon

Took a look at the stillpoint website, the ultra 5’s appear to be made from nicely machined pieces of steel.

Now, if stillpoint specified the hardness, they’d probably use Brinell or Rockwell C standards, the surface finish, probably CLA or RMS.

If they specified vibration absorption, what test method/standard would you expect them the use.

fatcat posted:

jon honeyball posted:

To be clear I have absolutely no issue with a company selling spikes or tables or things that suspend your power amp from the ceiling and saying "we have no idea how it works or what it is actually doing, but we like it -- you might too". That has integrity. To claim all sorts of vibrational mumbo jumbo and not back it up seems somewhat dishonest to me. 

Jon

Took a look at the stillpoint website, the ultra 5’s appear to be made from nicely machined pieces of steel.

Now, if stillpoint specified the hardness, they’d probably use Brinell or Rockwell C standards, the surface finish, probably CLA or RMS.

If they specified vibration absorption, what test method/standard would you expect them the use.

THey don't. They imply isolation but don't even actually state that they do that.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

jon honeyball posted:

I went to the stillpoints website. How surprised I was (not!) to find absolutely no technical measurements of the efficacy of these things. No vibration/accelerometer data at all. Nothing. 

Its all belief. AKA religion.

Now, if thats the case, 800 quid per bit of machined metal seems a positive bargain for what is essentially jewellery.

Indeed, I'd argue that they should be 8000 each, then im sure the believers would believe even more.

Or you could act like a grownup, buy an accelerometer, and measure it. Cos if you think there is anything mystical and unmeasurable happening here, then more fool you...

They work as advertised..

On the Stillpoints website the only things they abvertse them doing is lowering your noise floor, lasting many lifetimes, and performing without change or degradation after a short break-in period. (These are generic claims for stillpoints, there being nothing at all on the Ultra 5 page of their website.)

So, in terms of affecting hifi, it seems that all Stillpoints are claimed to do when placed under speakers is lower the noise floor.  Do they? (You didn't mention noise floor in your commentary in an earlier post)

 

 

I know they make my system sound much better than the relatively small cost for the Stillpoints. This is coming from a natural skeptic and cheapskate so... Give them a try.

As far as I'm aware the new stillpoints are some 2nd or even 3rd generation. Need to dig deeper to find those white papers perhaps.

Kevin Richardson posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

jon honeyball posted:

I went to the stillpoints website. How surprised I was (not!) to find absolutely no technical measurements of the efficacy of these things. No vibration/accelerometer data at all. Nothing. 

Its all belief. AKA religion.

Now, if thats the case, 800 quid per bit of machined metal seems a positive bargain for what is essentially jewellery.

Indeed, I'd argue that they should be 8000 each, then im sure the believers would believe even more.

Or you could act like a grownup, buy an accelerometer, and measure it. Cos if you think there is anything mystical and unmeasurable happening here, then more fool you...

They work as advertised..

On the Stillpoints website the only things they abvertse them doing is lowering your noise floor, lasting many lifetimes, and performing without change or degradation after a short break-in period. (These are generic claims for stillpoints, there being nothing at all on the Ultra 5 page of their website.)

So, in terms of affecting hifi, it seems that all Stillpoints are claimed to do when placed under speakers is lower the noise floor.  Do they? (You didn't mention noise floor in your commentary in an earlier post)

 

 

I know they make my system sound much better than the relatively small cost for the Stillpoints. This is coming from a natural skeptic and cheapskate so... Give them a try.

Given that I don't consider the cost mentioned in this thread to be relatively small, I'm unlikely to try them unless I win the lottery, though I suppose if there was a dealer nearby willing to lend them for a home trial I'd have little reason not to do so.

Innocent Bystander posted:

fatcat posted:

jon honeyball posted:

To be clear I have absolutely no issue with a company selling spikes or tables or things that suspend your power amp from the ceiling and saying "we have no idea how it works or what it is actually doing, but we like it -- you might too". That has integrity. To claim all sorts of vibrational mumbo jumbo and not back it up seems somewhat dishonest to me. 

Jon

Took a look at the stillpoint website, the ultra 5’s appear to be made from nicely machined pieces of steel.

Now, if stillpoint specified the hardness, they’d probably use Brinell or Rockwell C standards, the surface finish, probably CLA or RMS.

If they specified vibration absorption, what test method/standard would you expect them the use.

THey don't. They imply isolation but don't even actually state that they do that.

My interpretation of Jon's post, is he’s looking for information regarding vibration, not Mumbo Jumbo.

What information and to what standard is he looking for.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

jon honeyball posted:

I went to the stillpoints website. How surprised I was (not!) to find absolutely no technical measurements of the efficacy of these things. No vibration/accelerometer data at all. Nothing. 

Its all belief. AKA religion.

Now, if thats the case, 800 quid per bit of machined metal seems a positive bargain for what is essentially jewellery.

Indeed, I'd argue that they should be 8000 each, then im sure the believers would believe even more.

Or you could act like a grownup, buy an accelerometer, and measure it. Cos if you think there is anything mystical and unmeasurable happening here, then more fool you...

They work as advertised..

On the Stillpoints website the only things they abvertse them doing is lowering your noise floor, lasting many lifetimes, and performing without change or degradation after a short break-in period. (These are generic claims for stillpoints, there being nothing at all on the Ultra 5 page of their website.)

So, in terms of affecting hifi, it seems that all Stillpoints are claimed to do when placed under speakers is lower the noise floor.  Do they? (You didn't mention noise floor in your commentary in an earlier post)

 

 

I know they make my system sound much better than the relatively small cost for the Stillpoints. This is coming from a natural skeptic and cheapskate so... Give them a try.

Given that I don't consider the cost mentioned in this thread to be relatively small, I'm unlikely to try them unless I win the lottery, though I suppose if there was a dealer nearby willing to lend them for a home trial I'd have little reason not to do so.

Get a loan of the mid priced Ultra. You might be surprised at their effectiveness. (They are 225$ USD each component needs 3 so the cost is < Fraim level)

Kevin Richardson posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

jon honeyball posted:

I went to the stillpoints website. How surprised I was (not!) to find absolutely no technical measurements of the efficacy of these things. No vibration/accelerometer data at all. Nothing. 

Its all belief. AKA religion.

Now, if thats the case, 800 quid per bit of machined metal seems a positive bargain for what is essentially jewellery.

Indeed, I'd argue that they should be 8000 each, then im sure the believers would believe even more.

Or you could act like a grownup, buy an accelerometer, and measure it. Cos if you think there is anything mystical and unmeasurable happening here, then more fool you...

They work as advertised..

On the Stillpoints website the only things they abvertse them doing is lowering your noise floor, lasting many lifetimes, and performing without change or degradation after a short break-in period. (These are generic claims for stillpoints, there being nothing at all on the Ultra 5 page of their website.)

So, in terms of affecting hifi, it seems that all Stillpoints are claimed to do when placed under speakers is lower the noise floor.  Do they? (You didn't mention noise floor in your commentary in an earlier post)

 

 

I know they make my system sound much better than the relatively small cost for the Stillpoints. This is coming from a natural skeptic and cheapskate so... Give them a try.

Given that I don't consider the cost mentioned in this thread to be relatively small, I'm unlikely to try them unless I win the lottery, though I suppose if there was a dealer nearby willing to lend them for a home trial I'd have little reason not to do so.

Get a loan of the mid priced Ultra. You might be surprised at their effectiveness. (They are 225$ USD each component needs 3 so the cost is < Fraim level)

if that is the Ultra SS, they're £220 each in UK, £1320 total, and I would happily try on loan, but no way paying upfront. But the Ultra 5, which is suggested best for floorstanders, arw £610 each, so £3660, which is a major cost.

Almost twice what I paid for my speakers. 

But yes, I really don't think Stillpoints, or any aftermarket resonant device is right with Naim.  Considering that many Naim boxes rely on the case as a heat sink. When you disrupt the natural state resonances you could send it to over heat or even self implode.

Stillpoints are really at home on those over engineered and finished big boxes machined from either heavily  CNC'd  slabs of solid ingots or those complex constrained layered jobs, or on light thin framed and resonant boxes.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

jon honeyball posted:

I went to the stillpoints website. How surprised I was (not!) to find absolutely no technical measurements of the efficacy of these things. No vibration/accelerometer data at all. Nothing. 

Its all belief. AKA religion.

Now, if thats the case, 800 quid per bit of machined metal seems a positive bargain for what is essentially jewellery.

Indeed, I'd argue that they should be 8000 each, then im sure the believers would believe even more.

Or you could act like a grownup, buy an accelerometer, and measure it. Cos if you think there is anything mystical and unmeasurable happening here, then more fool you...

They work as advertised..

On the Stillpoints website the only things they abvertse them doing is lowering your noise floor, lasting many lifetimes, and performing without change or degradation after a short break-in period. (These are generic claims for stillpoints, there being nothing at all on the Ultra 5 page of their website.)

So, in terms of affecting hifi, it seems that all Stillpoints are claimed to do when placed under speakers is lower the noise floor.  Do they? (You didn't mention noise floor in your commentary in an earlier post)

 

 

I know they make my system sound much better than the relatively small cost for the Stillpoints. This is coming from a natural skeptic and cheapskate so... Give them a try.

Given that I don't consider the cost mentioned in this thread to be relatively small, I'm unlikely to try them unless I win the lottery, though I suppose if there was a dealer nearby willing to lend them for a home trial I'd have little reason not to do so.

you have finite elemente ceraballs, around 120 pounds for three. The most expensive are cerabases, also finite elemente, for around 600 pounds/set of 4.  It is exactly the same thing as stillpoints. But for very heavy loudspeakers as Wilson Alexandria or Focal Grand Utopia, the stillpoints are most effective.

The BW 800 series have cerabases slimline inserted inside the support.

Perhaps in UK market they aren't as good a value.

All I know is what my ears tell me. I was absolutely amazed the first time I heard them under my system.

I'm both an atheist and a scientist. I was extremely skeptical and almost didn't give them a try. (The way the dealer pitched them made them seem too good to be true.) Stillpoints has nothing in common with religious faith. How they work is not something I completely understand. However, I'm also not really sure how a phono cartridge that costs 10k USD works.

Give them a demo if you can just for fun.

TOBYJUG posted:

But yes, I really don't think Stillpoints, or any aftermarket resonant device is right with Naim.  Considering that many Naim boxes rely on the case as a heat sink. When you disrupt the natural state resonances you could send it to over heat or even self implode.

Stillpoints are really at home on those over engineered and finished big boxes machined from either heavily  CNC'd  slabs of solid ingots or those complex constrained layered jobs, or on light thin framed and resonant boxes.

i put finite elemente cerabases under the spikes floor of the fraimlite: it was beneficial.

under my tube preamp: a good step.  under my speakers: magical!!

under naim boxes: heard nothing.

A nice dealer lent me 6 of the Stillpoints ultra SS and 6 of the little ceraball universals.  The first some £1900 and the later some £370. To put under my loudspeakers. Not a case of predictive determinism but I found the little universals worked better for me.

TOBYJUG posted:

A nice dealer lent me 6 of the Stillpoints ultra SS and 6 of the little ceraball universals.  The first some £1900 and the later some £370. To put under my loudspeakers. Not a case of predictive determinism but I found the little universals worked better for me.

all depends of the weight of components and speakers. Your reference 3a veena are not very heavy, so ceraballs are better under your speakers than stillpoints ultra ss. But perhaps stillpoints mini would be better than ceraballs or even cerapucks...

TOBYJUG posted:

But yes, I really don't think Stillpoints, or any aftermarket resonant device is right with Naim.  Considering that many Naim boxes rely on the case as a heat sink. When you disrupt the natural state resonances you could send it to over heat or even self implode.

 

Sorry but that's sensationalist bollocks

jon honeyball posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

But yes, I really don't think Stillpoints, or any aftermarket resonant device is right with Naim.  Considering that many Naim boxes rely on the case as a heat sink. When you disrupt the natural state resonances you could send it to over heat or even self implode.

 

Sorry but that's sensationalist bollocks

I took it as lighthearted humour myself.

G

I going to give those cerabase things a try under my speakers. Looks like the company is no longer is business. Their website is gone.

Kevin Richardson posted:

I going to give those cerabase things a try under my speakers. Looks like the company is no longer is business. Their website is gone.

yes, i am surprised, the company seems closed. It is curious for a company that is acclaimed all over the world, specially with their pagode racks.  

But a lot of sites have still their products .  If i were you i would put off the stillpoints under your ndx and sn2 and put them under your speakers.  To try just....

Although I don't use Naim anymore I do use ultra ss under my amp to great effect and I also have found that the stillpoint lpi record weight to work great sat on top of the amp (the lpi brought more high frequency detail out).