152, 155, 172, XP5XS and 05XS killed off

dayjay posted:

Seems a shame that Naim no longer make a dedicated tuner but I suppose it makes sense.  Would have been nice to see a stand alone FM, dab, Internet tuner but I don't suppose it's needed with the modules in the streamers.

Problemis not everyone want's to buy a streamer just to get radio.

I'd buy a FM/iRadio/Dab tuner if Naim made one but have no interest in a streamer... been there done that, Vinyl and CD rock in this dinosaur's house.

As a very happy 172 user I'm also surprised that it is being discontinued.  It gives a huge amount of functionality, flexibility and very decent SQ for a comparatively low outlay.

Alfa4life posted:

dayjay posted:

Seems a shame that Naim no longer make a dedicated tuner but I suppose it makes sense.  Would have been nice to see a stand alone FM, dab, Internet tuner but I don't suppose it's needed with the modules in the streamers.

Problemis not everyone want's to buy a streamer just to get radio.

I'd buy a FM/iRadio/Dab tuner if Naim made one but have no interest in a streamer... been there done that, Vinyl and CD rock in this dinosaur's house.

Sorry can't help it, but technically radio is an example of streaming 

Johnell posted:

As a very happy 172 user I'm also surprised that it is being discontinued.  It gives a huge amount of functionality, flexibility and very decent SQ for a comparatively low outlay.

At one level it does seem surprising, but perhaps its because there are some rather fundamental architectural limitations internally on the 172 that just won't be able to keep up with future software and service developments on the streamers, and it was felt to maintain support would be too costly?

But I agree the 172 feeding a 300DR/Kudos Titans can sound superb..

Interesting times. Surely this must pave the way to revamp the pre/power separates and naits. I haven't heard any of the new uniti range but if they are as good as people say then the new series classic and maybe xs should be a big step forward based on uniti technology. 

It will be interesting to see how they will sound without separate psu if power supply and noise control have been improved so much as people say.  

I'm going to sit tight before spending on electronics even if it takes a while. Speakers first I think for me. 

Stuart, I suspect the Classic series NACs and NAPs may be lowest priority to change in the portfolio, and essentially they got 'revamped' with the arrival of DR powersupplies for the NACs and internal DR for the NAPs. They generally sell well and sound timelessly wonderful. There is real benefit to separation when looked at in this regard. My view is that there are many things ahead of them in the queue that perhaps may benefit from evolving technology. I suspect the current Classic series NACs/NAPs or at least most of them, will be still going strong in five years time.

Simon

I assume this can't be done in the uk Simon?

There is no reason why not... but I am not sure we have many coax cable distribution systems left. ... they used to carry  TV and potentially radio.. and be fed from RF distributor cabinets in the street. I remember Westminster cable in London in the mid 90s was one I worked on... I doubt it exists like that now. Also blocks of flats and apartments used to or still have TV and radio distribution system doing this... same principle.

Simon

Interesting! In Denmark we have 2 big companies  using coax for tv , radio and internet. coax is faster than ADSL especially with upload, but not as good as fiber, but getting close. I switched from a coax radio signal to internet radio when I bought my ns01, and I did not find the quality to drop significantly, for my main Danish radio channels, and I got so much more to choose from!

Claus

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Stuart, I suspect the Classic series NACs and NAPs may be lowest priority to change in the portfolio, and essentially they got 'revamped' with the arrival of DR powersupplies for the NACs and internal DR for the NAPs. They generally sell well and sound timelessly wonderful. There is real benefit to separation when looked at in this regard. My view is that there are many things ahead of them in the queue that perhaps may benefit from evolving technology. I suspect the current Classic series NACs/NAPs or at least most of them, will be still going strong in five years time.

Simon

I take your point Simon but if the technology is there and provides audible improvements why would naim sit on it. Particularly with the expenditure on R&D, production, marketing etc. Naim are obviously looking at expanding their customer base but one would have thought that there would be a parallel strategy to revamp (dr aside) the pre range.?

Stuart, absolutely, I suspect for the most part recent advances (other than the ones mentioned - DR and improved driver transistors) , make little difference if anything positive at all to the NACs and NAPs, after all these engineering approaches and designs have been around a while. Much of the magic comes from physical construction and component selection. Product development isn't cheap... so I guess there would need to be a worthwhile improvement or I would leave well alone assuming the parts are available and it's selling well.

The only  example I can think of of recent innovation from product cross over was the NAC volume control from the Statement appearing into the new N272 and the new Uniti series..so might make sense for new designs but not redesigning existing products.

Well, I'm a little sad that my beloved 172xs is now old product, but of course it sounds as delicious as ever. 

It's quite a leap now from the Uniti range to the separates in price terms, and that's a journey I assume they want customers to make. Perhaps there's something new coming along to fill the gap, based on the Uniti architecture? Not that it makes any difference to me. My next step would be to the replacement for the 272, and if that takes too long then I'll be looking elsewhere.

Sorry Naim, but now you've created a new architecture, I won't be spending more money on the old one.

I am interested to see how the quality of the n272 pre could be implemented into any new products. Many comment that it is at least as good as the 202 and hot on the heels of the 282. If you break down the pricing of the 272 per component eg just over £1k for each  - streamer, dac and pre - a new range of xs level components could be considerably improved and affordable for many on a limited budget. Of course things are never that simple and Naim will have their pricing requirements and what would be the knock on effects on the classic range? 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Johnell posted:

As a very happy 172 user I'm also surprised that it is being discontinued.  It gives a huge amount of functionality, flexibility and very decent SQ for a comparatively low outlay.

At one level it does seem surprising, but perhaps its because there are some rather fundamental architectural limitations internally on the 172 that just won't be able to keep up with future software and service developments on the streamers, and it was felt to maintain support would be too costly?

But I agree the 172 feeding a 300DR/Kudos Titans can sound superb..

I hadn't considered that Simon.  

BTW The 172/300DR/Titans must be (have been) in the running for Mullet system of the year........ 

stuart posted:

I am interested to see how the quality of the n272 pre could be implemented into any new products. Many comment that it is at least as good as the 202 and hot on the heels of the 282. If you break down the pricing of the 272 per component eg just over £1k for each  - streamer, dac and pre - a new range of xs level components could be considerably improved and affordable for many on a limited budget. Of course things are never that simple and Naim will have their pricing requirements and what would be the knock on effects on the classic range? 

Interesting prospect indeed Stuart.

Chag -

The XP5XS is still listed as an upgrade to ND5XS, DAC etc.

stuart posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Stuart, I suspect the Classic series NACs and NAPs may be lowest priority to change in the portfolio, and essentially they got 'revamped' with the arrival of DR powersupplies for the NACs and internal DR for the NAPs. They generally sell well and sound timelessly wonderful. There is real benefit to separation when looked at in this regard. My view is that there are many things ahead of them in the queue that perhaps may benefit from evolving technology. I suspect the current Classic series NACs/NAPs or at least most of them, will be still going strong in five years time.

I take your point Simon but if the technology is there and provides audible improvements why would naim sit on it. Particularly with the expenditure on R&D, production, marketing etc. Naim are obviously looking at expanding their customer base but one would have thought that there would be a parallel strategy to revamp (dr aside) the pre range.?

Naim aren't sitting on anything. They are running around like blue arsed flies trying to get this new streaming platform to work so that they can start selling Unitis again. Maybe then they'll be able to turn their attention new Classic streamers.

ChrisSU posted:

stuart posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Stuart, I suspect the Classic series NACs and NAPs may be lowest priority to change in the portfolio, and essentially they got 'revamped' with the arrival of DR powersupplies for the NACs and internal DR for the NAPs. They generally sell well and sound timelessly wonderful. There is real benefit to separation when looked at in this regard. My view is that there are many things ahead of them in the queue that perhaps may benefit from evolving technology. I suspect the current Classic series NACs/NAPs or at least most of them, will be still going strong in five years time.

I take your point Simon but if the technology is there and provides audible improvements why would naim sit on it. Particularly with the expenditure on R&D, production, marketing etc. Naim are obviously looking at expanding their customer base but one would have thought that there would be a parallel strategy to revamp (dr aside) the pre range.?

Naim aren't sitting on anything. They are running around like blue arsed flies trying to get this new streaming platform to work so that they can start selling Unitis again. Maybe then they'll be able to turn their attention new Classic streamers.

Of course this is the main short term priority for Naim. I was referring to Simons' stance that the classic range could remain unchanged for another 5 years. 

So that's the whole XS range gone barring the Nait?

Sounds exciting, like there's a new line up coming

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

When I was last at the factory - I saw the blue print design pattern for the NAT05XS and I asked how many are made and the answer went something along the lines of they couldn't remember the last one they made. 

I possibly got the last one then - delivered in early March this year - including PowerLine-Lite cable in the box. 

I anticipated they would kill it off so thought I should get one before it was too late. 

It's wonderful. R3 breakfast programme and NAT05XS gets my day off to a good start!

Still, as has been said before, Naim will only make what they can sell so I can understand why they would delete the slow sellers to clear space in the factory for new product or to meet demand for assembly of hot selling items.

What I find sad is that Naim just discontinue product without warning, leaving existing customers hoping to add a newly sourced matching unit in the lurch and they don't mark the occasion with any recognition of the end of a successful product run to recognise their heritage.

stuart posted:

ChrisSU posted:

stuart posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Stuart, I suspect the Classic series NACs and NAPs may be lowest priority to change in the portfolio, and essentially they got 'revamped' with the arrival of DR powersupplies for the NACs and internal DR for the NAPs. They generally sell well and sound timelessly wonderful. There is real benefit to separation when looked at in this regard. My view is that there are many things ahead of them in the queue that perhaps may benefit from evolving technology. I suspect the current Classic series NACs/NAPs or at least most of them, will be still going strong in five years time.

I take your point Simon but if the technology is there and provides audible improvements why would naim sit on it. Particularly with the expenditure on R&D, production, marketing etc. Naim are obviously looking at expanding their customer base but one would have thought that there would be a parallel strategy to revamp (dr aside) the pre range.?

Naim aren't sitting on anything. They are running around like blue arsed flies trying to get this new streaming platform to work so that they can start selling Unitis again. Maybe then they'll be able to turn their attention new Classic streamers.

Of course this is the main short term priority for Naim. I was referring to Simons' stance that the classic range could remain unchanged for another 5 years. 

I was referring to the Classic range NACs and NAPs being most likely unchanged over the next 5 years ( Naim preamps and piweramps)

John Bailey posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

When I was last at the factory - I saw the blue print design pattern for the NAT05XS and I asked how many are made and the answer went something along the lines of they couldn't remember the last one they made. 

I possibly got the last one then - delivered in early March this year - including PowerLine-Lite cable in the box. 

I anticipated they would kill it off so thought I should get one before it was too late. 

It's wonderful. R3 breakfast programme and NAT05XS gets my day off to a good start!

Still, as has been said before, Naim will only make what they can sell so I can understand why they would delete the slow sellers to clear space in the factory for new product or to meet demand for assembly of hot selling items.

What I find sad is that Naim just discontinue product without warning, leaving existing customers hoping to add a newly sourced matching unit in the lurch and they don't mark the occasion with any recognition of the end of a successful product run to recognise their heritage.

 

 

You lucky person you... hold onto it.. it might become more valuable if it was the last one they produced 

I agree with your last paragraph about lack of of occasion around the end of a successful product...especially as Naim product runs  last for years if not decades.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

John Bailey posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

When I was last at the factory - I saw the blue print design pattern for the NAT05XS and I asked how many are made and the answer went something along the lines of they couldn't remember the last one they made. 

I possibly got the last one then - delivered in early March this year - including PowerLine-Lite cable in the box. 

I anticipated they would kill it off so thought I should get one before it was too late. 

It's wonderful. R3 breakfast programme and NAT05XS gets my day off to a good start!

Still, as has been said before, Naim will only make what they can sell so I can understand why they would delete the slow sellers to clear space in the factory for new product or to meet demand for assembly of hot selling items.

What I find sad is that Naim just discontinue product without warning, leaving existing customers hoping to add a newly sourced matching unit in the lurch and they don't mark the occasion with any recognition of the end of a successful product run to recognise their heritage.

 

 

You lucky person you... hold onto it.. it might become more valuable if it was the last one they produced 

I agree with your last paragraph about lack of of occasion around the end of a successful product...especially as Naim product runs  last for years if not decades.

One can never be sure about having the last one if the bits and know-how to make one still remain at the factory. 

When after 42 years in production, the last 2CV rolled off the production line Citroen arranged a suitable fan-fare as befitted such a long lived icon. After the cameras had left and the publicity machine was switched off, someone cranked the handle and the factory produced five more!

ChrisSU posted:

stuart posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

 

Naim aren't sitting on anything. They are running around like blue arsed flies trying to get this new streaming platform to work so that they can start selling Unitis again. Maybe then they'll be able to turn their attention new Classic streamers.

Sure they are running around flying but imo should not have announced new Uniti range before it was ready to work and sell

And yes, Im sure there will be a new range of amplifiers out asap, slow sellers shifted first

spacey posted:

So that's the whole XS range gone barring the Nait?

Sounds exciting, like there's a new line up coming

ND5, CD5 and Flatcap are still hanging in there!

b_lund posted:

ChrisSU posted:

stuart posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

 

Naim aren't sitting on anything. They are running around like blue arsed flies trying to get this new streaming platform to work so that they can start selling Unitis again. Maybe then they'll be able to turn their attention new Classic streamers.

Sure they are running around flying but imo should not have announced new Uniti range before it was ready to work and sell

And yes, Im sure there will be a new range of amplifiers out asap, slow sellers shifted first

Don't hold your breath!

Hungryhalibut posted:

But it now means that Naim no longer make speakers, don't make arms, have ditched their best CD players, and now no longer make separate tuners. How times change. It makes me quite wistful. 

But the church clock still stands at ten to three. And there is still honey for tea.

C.