Fine tune music with cables

I'm afraid, Stover, that you'll need to start saving hard... the SuperLumia, as you say, are not inexpensive, but you have to hear them at work in your system before you discard them on the basis of their price.  Good things come to those who wait, my mum used to say, however my own take on that theme is that even better things come to those who go looking for a zero % interest credit card deal    

Roger

I use Super Lumina with my 272/XPS/250 and they really are super. They work so well with the DR equipment, and just let the speakers disappear. 

I have made the din-xlr cables for my 552-500-DBL using Preh, Neutrik connectors and Mogami 2549 cable.

I could not believe how the sound improved.

They are not Superlumina but everybody can have them.

I'm very happy.

Vincenzo

With SuperLumina, no compromise with Fraim placed in centre then, making the cables shorter and cheaper?  I have the chance to audition them at home, I think, but I`m not sure if this is where I want to end

Welcome to the Mogami Appreciation Society Vincenzo.    

Thanks.

I like so much what the 2549 does between the 552 and the 500 that I want to try it as interconnect (for the sources).

Vincenzo

Hungryhalibut posted:

I use Super Lumina with my 272/XPS/250 and they really are super. They work so well with the DR equipment, and just let the speakers disappear. 

My final piece of my upgrade puzzle will be cables, I'm just waiting for my speakers to fully break in prior to auditioning. Super Lumina is top of my list to audition, when I look at the Naim price list is the price qouted on speaker cables for a stereo pair?

alanbass1 posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I use Super Lumina with my 272/XPS/250 and they really are super. They work so well with the DR equipment, and just let the speakers disappear. 

My final piece of my upgrade puzzle will be cables, I'm just waiting for my speakers to fully break in prior to auditioning. Super Lumina is top of my list to audition, when I look at the Naim price list is the price qouted on speaker cables for a stereo pair?

I`m there too, my speakers are in a run in progress, but sound great already. 30 hours as Kudos says. I will not do serious stuff with cables before 200 hours.

Yes, I believe it`s a stereo pair priced and I struggle to justify such an expensive cable, even if it`s great, especially a 5m pair 

For Naim, best to stick with Superlumina cables. Not cheap, but it will be the last cable you buy.

As for Mogami, I have experimented with a very similar cable to that, and while frequency extremes improve, also clarity, bass etc. the timing and flow of the music is nowhere as good as the Naim standard interconnect.

As for us Naim fans, timing and flow of music is the reason we paid so much for the Naim kit.

I would suggest you enjoy your speakers and wait until you have sufficient funds available to buy some top quality cables.

Super Lumina ,TQ Ultra Black's ect are at their price point because they are extremely good cables, they are worth the wait..

All I would add is 'audition with an open mind (and ears!)".

As this is a Naim forum it's perhaps no surprise you should get so many singing the praises of SuperLumina. I too am a Naim source and amp fan, but when I auditioned equally well run in lengths of SL and Chord Epic Reference, the Chord came out a close, but distinct, winner. Each to his or her own taste.

Tim

Timmo1341 posted:

All I would add is 'audition with an open mind (and ears!)".

As this is a Naim forum it's perhaps no surprise you should get so many singing the praises of SuperLumina.

I think the word 'perhaps' can be left out here... 

Auditioning with an open mind & ears is not easy when you know what's playing though. With speaker cables it's difficult to audition blind as you always see them I guess. But with ICs, power cords and power cable is easier to do and that can lead to surprising views and conclusions.

(big Naim fan here too btw...)

KTMax posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

All I would add is 'audition with an open mind (and ears!)".

As this is a Naim forum it's perhaps no surprise you should get so many singing the praises of SuperLumina.

I think the word 'perhaps' can be left out here... 

Auditioning with an open mind & ears is not easy when you know what's playing though. With speaker cables it's difficult to audition blind as you always see them I guess. But with ICs, power cords and power cable is easier to do and that can lead to surprising views and conclusions.

(big Naim fan here too btw...)

I know that a lot of people like the Super Lumina cables but clearly it's a matter of personal preference, system and room etc. I/we tried both the DIN-XLR interconnect and speaker cables with the mindset of truly wanting to like them but decided that they were not for us. Blind testing by our adult son who had no idea what was being changed, confirmed our view.

When time permits I'll make a DIN-XLR interconnect from Mogami 2549 cable and then if I like that, might possibly try some Chord speaker cables.

The problem with trying the SL cables is that they take bloomin' ages to run in. My din to XLR took months. I bought it on the basis that if I didn't like it one it was run in I could return it for a refund. I don't know whether the other popular expensive cables such as Chord and TQ take so long. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

The problem with trying the SL cables is that they take bloomin' ages to run in. My din to XLR took months. I bought it on the basis that if I didn't like it one it was run in I could return it for a refund. I don't know whether the other popular expensive cables such as Chord and TQ take so long. 

Yes, that could be a factor for sure. The Super Lumina DIN-XLR was new but the speaker cables were well used demo items. For sure they bought good new things to the party but for us, some disadvantages too, a touch or more of sibilance being one thing. I wonder if maybe they were just a bit too revealing for our source?

Vincé 2 posted:

Thanks.  I like so much what the 2549 does between the 552 and the 500 that I want to try it as interconnect (for the sources).    Vincenzo

I have the 2549 from NDX & NAT-05,  I've used Neutrik-REAN DIN plugs in preference to Preh as they don't have a locking ring & (IMO) they have materials & design.  I've made my cables to be as short as possible to reduce the effects of the cable to as near to zero as possible.   I've tried comparisons with HiLine & other higher end cables (but not SL or the latest Chord ARRAY)  I cannot detect that much difference & no longer have a compulsion to try different cables.  

Hungryhalibut posted:

The problem with trying the SL cables is that they take bloomin' ages to run in. My din to XLR took months. I bought it on the basis that if I didn't like it one it was run in I could return it for a refund. I don't know whether the other popular expensive cables such as Chord and TQ take so long. 

It’s not only expensive cables that take time to run in, the same applies to expensive lenses. A couple of months ago I bought a new pair of specs fitted with Zeiss glass (or are they plastic). Initially, I sensed overall better clarity, yet absolutely no focus, apart from when looking through a very very tiny portion of the lens. Everything else was blurred.  After a weeks run in, things got a lot better, the overall blurring disappeared, but still sharpess was not there. After 2 month or so run in the lenses are now very sharp and crystal clear. I won’t be going back to noname lenses, this was one of the best upgrades I’ve ever made.

Timmo1341 posted:

All I would add is 'audition with an open mind (and ears!)".

As this is a Naim forum it's perhaps no surprise you should get so many singing the praises of SuperLumina. I too am a Naim source and amp fan, but when I auditioned equally well run in lengths of SL and Chord Epic Reference, the Chord came out a close, but distinct, winner. Each to his or her own taste.

Tim

You are not alone in this. I have not tried the Naim SuperLumina but have compared both NACA5 and Chord Epic Twin. My experience is the opposite of Stover's. In the end, we can all agree it's not only down to how we hear and interpret sound with our ears. The loudspeakers that are connected to these wires will play a role as well.

Just checked on the Superlumina and a 5m pair costs £3,245. They cost almost the same as my reference speakers.

Fine tuning through cables is a very fine way of learning how ones ears interpret. But be aware that there a few influences at play that makes it like responding to what is a moving target. Not until some time has passed that the true power of the force is revealed and one is one with it, yes.

well all I say is that if it were that easy to make Mogami interconnects at home, and have them sound as good as interconnects from Naim, Chord or Vertere, then these companies are over charging us.

But that isn't so to my ears, you get what you pay for, and what you are paying for is the R&D of decades of these companies, which know which little tweaks make the big differences.

Even the 100 GBP interconnect from Naim blows many cables away, still even today.

don't go cheap on cables..... 

PS : I am not a dealer, and have no financial interest in encouraging cable sales.

just giving my experience having tried many low cost cables, and hearing the difference with good cables from Naim, Chord and Vertere

It is quite deliberate that Naim gives their own designed and made in Salisbury cables with their equipment as cables have an influence on the final result, copper is copper yes, but which copper, which insulation, which connector, which length, which diameter will bring out Pace Rhythm and timing.

These companies have full time staff that do R&D work all day long, one cannot hope to beat them sitting at home making your own cables.

And life is too short for that anyway.

analogmusic posted:

well all I say is that if it were that easy to make Mogami interconnects at home, and have them sound as good as interconnects from Naim, Chord or Vertere, then these companies are over charging us.

But that isn't so to my ears, you get what you pay for, and what you are paying for is the R&D of decades of these companies, which know which little tweaks make the big differences.

Even the 100 GBP interconnect from Naim blows many cables away, still even today.

don't go cheap on cables..... 

The cable Naim supply to connect pre to NAP250 is made from a piece of plain old 3-core flex. The stuff you buy off the shelf with blue, brown and yellow/green insulation.

There is a reason for using that cable.

fatcat posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

The problem with trying the SL cables is that they take bloomin' ages to run in. My din to XLR took months. I bought it on the basis that if I didn't like it one it was run in I could return it for a refund. I don't know whether the other popular expensive cables such as Chord and TQ take so long. 

It’s not only expensive cables that take time to run in, the same applies to expensive lenses. A couple of months ago I bought a new pair of specs fitted with Zeiss glass (or are they plastic). Initially, I sensed overall better clarity, yet absolutely no focus, apart from when looking through a very very tiny portion of the lens. Everything else was blurred.  After a weeks run in, things got a lot better, the overall blurring disappeared, but still sharpess was not there. After 2 month or so run in the lenses are now very sharp and crystal clear. I won’t be going back to noname lenses, this was one of the best upgrades I’ve ever made.

Perfect example of the brain at work adapting.

Bumping as the question seemed to get lost amongst other cable aspects:

analogmusic posted:

As for Mogami, I have experimented with a very similar cable to that, and while frequency extremes improve, also clarity, bass etc. the timing and flow of the music is nowhere as good as the Naim standard interconnect.

 

Out of curiosity, which cable was it? (And which Mogami cable was it similar to, and on what basis was it regarded as similar?)