Fine tune music with cables

Naim's website says the cables are assembled to the customer’s specification of length, so if they don't then that is a false statement. However it doesn't indicate the basis of charging, so if they do make to the customer's lenth soecification there is nothing to stop them charging to the next whole metre (or two), if the customer is willing to pay.

as for the Chord cables, what does priced per metre mean as opposed to priced to nearest 10cm? It suggests that Chord also may charge by whole metre or part thereof charged as if it were a metre...

it appears they only offer 3m, 5m, 7m, 9m and 12m lengths on the basis of, er, performance, with the 3m and 5m being of, ahem, optimal length.

Can anyone explain why a 4m cable will sound such that Naim would not make this length - assuming they believe (I assume through extensive listening) that such a length is inferior to either 3m or 5m!

alanbass1 posted:

it appears they only offer 3m, 5m, 7m, 9m and 12m lengths on the basis of, er, performance, with the 3m and 5m being of, ahem, optimal length.

Can anyone explain why a 4m cable will sound such that Naim would not make this length - assuming they believe (I assume through extensive listening) that such a length is inferior to either 3m or 5m!

 

Total, profiteering bullshit!

That may be a little harsh, without knowing the full facts. Perhaps you could ask why this is. One thought that comes to mind is that the little box at the amp end contains a resistor across the wires - maybe the specific lengths have something to do with that. Or not, as the case might be. 

Whatever the reason it simply means that I will cancel my order that I placed for the SL interconnect and look for an alternative cable manufacturer. I was buying the Naim 'blind' on the basis of having an all Naim system but I will now be on the auditon trail - let the games begin.

Those TQ black diamonds look interesting ��

One vote for TQ Black. I've been using this interconnect for a few years now. Before that, ARSound Lunar and before that some cheaper ARSound cable. I recently plugged in the stock grey SNAIC and couldn't belive how much worse it sounded than TQ Black. Muffled and flat sound and lost all the clarity which TQ Black brought. All the Naim qualities (PRaT) are also there with the Black. There's simply no way of going back to the stock cable. I haven't tried TQ Black speaker cables yet, should be interesting test against NACA5. 

Innocent Bystander posted:

Naim's website says the cables are assembled to the customer’s specification of length, so if they don't then that is a false statement.

It's not necessarily a false statement, it's just misleading. It can be read as you can specify your length from the ones we provide, so we'll make it 3m or 5m as specified. It isn't what I'd have read that to mean though, but it is a possiblereading.

alanbass1 posted:

I enquired regarding the price of a 3.5m pair of super lumina speaker cables and the dealer was informed by Naim that they do not provide custom lengths and I would have to order either a 3m or 5m pair. Well 3m is not long enough and I don't require either the cost or trailing wire mess of 5m

If the case then this pretty much rules out SL from my list.

Naim will make custom lengths I had a pair of 6 metre S/L speaker cables made as 5 metres were to short and 7 metres to long and as they say at might pay to drop Naim an email mail request.

Hungryhalibut posted:

That may be a little harsh, without knowing the full facts. Perhaps you could ask why this is. One thought that comes to mind is that the little box at the amp end contains a resistor across the wires - maybe the specific lengths have something to do with that. Or not, as the case might be. 

I think not - my dealer said Naim have no problem making the leads 5.5m long, just that I'd have to pay for 7m - I call that profiteering, you may choose to be more magnanimous!

The dealer called them twice, first requesting a 3.5m length and second a 4m length. The dealer said that Naim were adamant regarding only providing the lengths as per my previous post. Not sure that even if I contacted Naim they will deal direct with me.

Timmo1341 posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

That may be a little harsh, without knowing the full facts. Perhaps you could ask why this is. One thought that comes to mind is that the little box at the amp end contains a resistor across the wires - maybe the specific lengths have something to do with that. Or not, as the case might be. 

I think not - my dealer said Naim have no problem making the leads 5.5m long, just that I'd have to pay for 7m - I call that profiteering, you may choose to be more magnanimous!

Just checked my invoice from the dealer 1 pair of 6 metre S/L speaker cables priced midway between the list price of the 5 and 7 metre pair invoice dated 23rd September 2016.

This was at the time they had problems with the Banana plugs, Naim sent a  replacement set within 5 working days so I know they have made at least 2 pairs of 6 metre S/L cables contrary to what any dealer says.

Sounds like a call or email direct to Naim is called for.

I ordered and received a pair of 4m SL speaker cables priced between a 3m and 5m pair.

So I should I should Naim to ask, perhaps beg, for a different length to what they stated they will supply to my dealer. And if they decided to be magnanimous enough to allow an exception for my particular case then I guess I need to go back to my dealer and request they then contact Naim to be able to complete the order?

Why is it this difficult? Perhaps someone from Naim would like to comment why they are telling my dealer one thing and yet apparently breaking these very rules in other cases...

Stover,

this is my reply to your original post. Firstly, I think that for me the proper ratio to consider is not cost/value, not cost/performance, nor cost/expectations or cost/mental availability to spend. These are parameters that have all, at one time or another in my last 11 years, oriented or decided my choices. Now I know that the only sensible ratio to consider, for me, is cost/pleasure. It took me long to learn it, and the discovery of the words hypohedonia and anhedonia.

So, given my current situation, here's my opinion (with implicit advice).

I only need two audio cables: IC and speaker wires. I have a CDX2 and a SN1. I have had the HiLine many times, and only recently I realized that the grey 'lavender' has a more immediate, involving midrange – at the cost of a certain 'bundledness' – while the HiLine is more in control and discriminating but sometimes too 'perfect', not necessarily as musically involving. SuperLumina are out of the equation because of the mentioned ratio: I would never get as much pleasure from them as they'd cost. So, although most here seem to ignore the fact, there is the choice of Vertere cables, which are rumored to have some relationship with SL; I use the Pulse D-Fi IC, which is a  very good alternative to both a lavender and a HiLine, costing 1/4 of the latter. It's more articulated and smooth than a lavender but not so hyper-analytic as a HiLine. There are many costlier models, but I went for that. Once I had clear in mind – or in my heart – how much pleasure I can reasonably expect from playing reproduced music at home, choosing how much to spend was easy. Not too little, not too much.

As speaker wire, I use the NAC A5: because I need 2 x 6 mt of it. I owned TelluriumQ black and Vertere Pulse X Mini, and 12 mt of those cost in a price zone ranging between €750 and 1000 respectively. I found a perfect pair of perfectly soldered NAC A5 (thanks Maurizio, I still have to pay for them..) and here I am. There simply came a time when I wasn't willing anymore to spend several hundreds because I knew the amount of pleasure I'd get from them. It's as simple as that.

My implicit advice was obviously considering Vertere; my explicit one is: since everybody seem able to attribute a value, or a precise percentage, or a cost range, to sound quality, which is the vaguest of all parameters, being influenced by too many variables, why don't you try to establish first how much the pleasure you get from the system is worth? I now know that mine, in my current situation, is €8500 (for all, but the S-400s were new and, for once, I didn't get a great discount). Much less than that and I am unhappy, much more and it's wasted money.

Cost/pleasure. Think of it.

Best

Max 

(CDX2, Vertere Pulse D-Fi, Supernait, NAC A5, Ovator S-400) 

In my former room I used a dedicated spur, 6mm2 and there`s no doubt I prefer that. In the loft I have not come that far. Living here for 25 years now, we (my wife and I) have started rehabilitation and the loft is on the list.

Before auditioning costly cables there should be a dedicated spur (I never use extension pads, they make music grey). Second, the loft may be reduced by 50 % to make a third bedroom. This will be decided within the next 6 months and may have a huge impact on how the system will respond. There`s more....... the system may also be moved back to the room in the basement and there we have a new story again.

My plan with this thread was as mentioned; how to start such approach? I think the answer is given after this loud thinking. Did I say, great inputs from you all and one of the most decent cable thread I have ever experienced 

Hi Max, you`re Italian, but I struggle to understand your complicated English, you have a huge vocabulary, at least compared to me  Thank you for putting this into perspective.

I have been through a lot of thinking to understand my impulsive climbing in the Naim ladder. I think I have revealed the reason why, but not managed to put words to it. You say; try to establish first how much the pleasure you get from the system is worth..... and I think that is spot on.

I could afford to keep the NDS, but ended up with 272. I can afford a 555PS for the 272, but purchased the XPS and to be honest, I could enjoyed music without it also. For some obvious reasons I regret that I sold my Titans 88, I now understand they are lovely, but again pleasure vs is it worth it.

It`s all in your head and heart actually, to stop it or let it flow until the end (which does not exist) Have I understood your to me a bit complex point?

My intension are the same with cables as far as I understand myself 

alanbass1 posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

alanbass1 posted:

I enquired regarding the price of a 3.5m pair of super lumina speaker cables and the dealer was informed by Naim that they do not provide custom lengths and I would have to order either a 3m or 5m pair. Well 3m is not long enough and I don't require either the cost or trailing wire mess of 5m

If the case then this pretty much rules out SL from my list.

As I understand it you could get (say) a 4m pair but would have to pay for 5m. Luckily for me, 3m is just sufficient.

That is not a very customer oriented policy considering the cost of these cables and pretty much puts a bad mark on my opinion of Naim as a company. Good thing is that there are plenty of alternatives to be had

Chord made me a 3.6 m set of Sarums and I only paid for what I received. If you'd like to hear them, my email is in my profile.

Cheers

Dave

alanbass1 posted:

Whatever the reason it simply means that I will cancel my order that I placed for the SL interconnect and look for an alternative cable manufacturer. I was buying the Naim 'blind' on the basis of having an all Naim system but I will now be on the auditon trail - let the games begin.

Those TQ black diamonds look interesting ��

The Black Diamonds are magnificent, if you decide to audition be prepared because you will not want to send them back.

Behind these interesting discussions is somewhat that old source first issue.

cables, amplifiers and speakers allow  more of the source to shine, but the source must be a very good one to begin with.

I think CDX2 with Supernait is  well balanced system, hope you enjoy it Max_B.

Stover posted:

Hi Max, you`re Italian, but I struggle to understand your complicated English, you have a huge vocabulary, at least compared to me  Thank you for putting this into perspective.

I have been through a lot of thinking to understand my impulsive climbing in the Naim ladder. I think I have revealed the reason why, but not managed to put words to it. You say; try to establish first how much the pleasure you get from the system is worth..... and I think that is spot on.

I could afford to keep the NDS, but ended up with 272. I can afford a 555PS for the 272, but purchased the XPS and to be honest, I could enjoyed music without it also. For some obvious reasons I regret that I sold my Titans 88, I now understand they are lovely, but again pleasure vs is it worth it.

It`s all in your head and heart actually, to stop it or let it flow until the end (which does not exist) Have I understood your to me a bit complex point?

My intension are the same with cables as far as I understand myself 

Hi Stover,

I'm sorry for not having been able to be simpler. I like writing and I often let myself be carried away. I think you caught my point perfectly. What I was saying was, in short, if we have to put a price tag on everything, let's begin with the pleasure we get from our system. Then we go on. But to buy because you know, feel, suppose that it will be better, that is silly.

I wish you my best

Max