Roon with NDS

Ah the Holy Grail of streaming! I've always wanted this .

Why do you need the Melco in the mix? Can't Roon directly "feed" the NDS? I have JRiver and I can control the playlist to my NDX via their app.

Kevin, my music is stored on a Melco. I have not yet found a better place to put it (better than Qnap NAS and Unitiserve). That's why it's in the mix.

I guess my question is: Can the Roon read the files from Melco and send them to NDS via UPNP? (I understand the Melco usually has an Ethernet port for the NDS)

No it can't. Hence my question. The only way I can use Roon with an NDS is to feed the NDS with a direct digital input, as described.

David - Expensive, but maybe worth looking at something like the Mutec MC-3 which will convert USB to S/PDIF to feed the NDS. Given the isolation / reclocking ability of the Mutec this should help level the playing field between your two music sources (Melco / Roon)

Should imagine the NDS will appreciate a much better input from your mini PC. I have no experience, but BADA Alpha seem to get good reviews for USB > SPDIF convertors.......

David, there is a software called Sonore UPnP bridge, which runs on a few products, the most useful in your scenario is the Sonic transporter (from small Green Computer). 

It basically sits on your network and allows the NDS to see Roon as a UPnP source. 

The Sonic transporter would take the place of your egg and DAC. 

AFAIK the NDS shows in the Roon app as an "endpoint" and receives the signal through Ethernet just as it would normally. 

.sjb

james n posted:

David - Expensive, but maybe worth looking at something like the Mutec MC-3 which will convert USB to S/PDIF to feed the NDS. Given the isolation / reclocking ability of the Mutec this should help level the playing field between your two music sources (Melco / Roon)

 

I don't know how much expensive is here, but Gustard U12 is excellent and can do similar conversion, costing under £150. And not just my experience - at one time Richard Dane was testing one, though I haven't seen anything from him on it recently (but searching the forum should find).

Limiting factors in the described setup are obviously the DAC, but also possibly RF output from the mini PC affecting the DC. A convertor that is also an isolator like these will block the RF - though I don't know if that is necessary feeding NDX's DAC.

Out of interest, how does Roon becahve if metadata is incomplete or inaccurate - does it still allow browsing of albums using , perhaps, the filing system on Melco?

David O'Higgins posted:

No it can't. Hence my question. The only way I can use Roon with an NDS is to feed the NDS with a direct digital input, as described.

Ok thanks. I don't know much about Roon but I've ALWAYS wanted to randomize String quartets but have never found software that will play all movements together. (Why is it so hard?)

SC posted:

Should imagine the NDS will appreciate a much better input from your mini PC. I have no experience, but BADA Alpha seem to get good reviews for USB > SPDIF convertors.......

Yeah that's my vote. Does it do BNC? I think so but I looked at it for the AES output. Probably the best solution to your problem.

Yep – a simple selector at the rear switches between BNC and AES:

Not the prettiest of boxes, though a few less lights (!) than the Mutec also suggested....

Seems it can auto-switch sample rates too, though this would be dependent on the PC and software also....

Kevin Richardson posted:

David O'Higgins posted:

No it can't. Hence my question. The only way I can use Roon with an NDS is to feed the NDS with a direct digital input, as described.

Ok thanks. I don't know much about Roon but I've ALWAYS wanted to randomize String quartets but have never found software that will play all movements together. (Why is it so hard?)

Roon is the only one I have seen  to do it. It's all about database design and indexing. It really is impressive.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Out of interest, how does Roon becahve if metadata is incomplete or inaccurate - does it still allow browsing of albums using , perhaps, the filing system on Melco?

I really don't know, because I've never spent enough time trying to find its limitations. I don't know how it builds its indexes, but it is certainly impressive.

Look at https://www.smallgreencomputer...?variant=32991451407 which provides a small unit to run the UPnP Bridge, assuming you have Roon Core running elsewhere (NUC, MacMini, NAS etc.)

The metadata enrichment Roon provides is very good, plus the way they sort and group Artists, Albums, tracks, movements etc. I also like the Album merge feature on multi-disk sets.
Now I sync'ed the way Roon displays my Library to the way that Asset indexes my Library from the files on the NAS, but I currently run Roon on my Laptop, as a Metadata Editing tool, rather than part of the playback chain. Playback is via Asset running on a dedicated headless RaspberryPi serving the NDS. All power supplies for the Pi and dedicated network switch are Linear.

I am waiting for ROCK, the optimised RoonOS for NUC, to run the Roon Core on a headless server, and will be looking at the UPnP Bridge, with iOS devices becoming Room Remotes for playback control, with the same interface as Windows.
Plus this paves the way for MQA playback with software decoding in the Roon Core and delivered over the Roon Endpoint, bridged to UPnP for the NDS.

Hope this helps, Simon.

David O'Higgins posted:

I have become very fond of Roon, particularly of the way it approaches random play of Classical music. I started it with Schubert Trout Quintet on Friday, and it took me on quite an odyssey via the 'Radio' function, each time playing a complete work, whether a concerto, a symphony or even an opera. I am running Roon Core on a Mini PC (eggsnow fanless), pointing to my music on a Melco, and I have directed the Mini Pc sound output to one of the USB ports, to which I have connected a cheap USB DAC which has a digital output and which then feeds a digital input on the NDS (renamed 'Roon'!). 

The sound quality, while excellent, is not as good as playing the same music from the Melco dedicated network connection to the NDS (using Nstream). My question is whether I can improve the result by replacing the USB DAC with something more sophisticated (dedicated power supply, etc.), and if so, what? 

Hi David,

Your thread caught my eye as i've been down a similar road to you, albeit with a 272. Like you having discovered Roon and being frustrated with Naims lack of support,  I looked for options.

1 - I connected my iMac (where the Roon Core resides) to the 272 with a very long (12m) Toslink cable. This worked fine but SQ wise, it wasn't on par with the 272.

2 - I borrowed a SONORE microRendu* (using the Roon Ready App) from a friend and a Chord 2Qute DAC from a dealer. Again not ideal as this option bypassed the 272 DAC rendering it a pre amp only. However, the SQ jump compared to using the 272 with files stored on a NAS, was eye opening to say the least.

3 - In the meantime the SONORE UPnP Bridge was released for the microRendu*. After some initial issues with the beta it worked perfectly with the 272 and sounded great. On par with files on a NAS but with all the benefits of Roon.

Note* In options 2 & 3 the SONORE Sonicorbiter SE could be used as a cheaper option, although I understand at the expense of SQ

Based on my experiences, the above are all viable ways to get Roon into a Naim streamer although I'm sure there are others. However, option 2 was my first exposure to a Chord DAC and despite trying I just couldn't go back to the 272 without the 2Qute, good though the 272 is. This ultimately led me to sadly move away from Naim and I now have the following set-up.

iMac (Roon Core) > SONORE microRendu (bridged ethernet port connection) + LPS-1 Ultracap LPS > Chord Hugo TT > ATC SCM40A.

I know Naim are talking about Roon coming to the new streamers, but they should seriously consider those with classic streamers as Roon is for me game changing.  

In a recent thread a NDS owner indicate UPNP is best sounding input. Perhaps you'll never get optimal playback with Roon + Melco.

Thanks to all who have replied here. I must confess that some of this stuff goes over (wrecks?) my head! It will take me a bit of time to think it through. The last thing I want to do is to buy more boxes if I can avoid it, especially if the result is a serious compromise in sound quality.

Thanks to all who have replied here. I must confess that some of this stuff goes over (wrecks?) my head! It will take me a bit of time to think it through. The last thing I want to do is to buy more boxes if I can avoid it, especially if the result is a serious compromise in sound quality.

james n posted:

David - Expensive, but maybe worth looking at something like the Mutec MC-3 which will convert USB to S/PDIF to feed the NDS. Given the isolation / reclocking ability of the Mutec this should help level the playing field between your two music sources (Melco / Roon)

James, I took a look at the back of this unit, but I can't see a USB input. Can you elaborate please?

Sloop John B posted:

David, there is a software called Sonore UPnP bridge, which runs on a few products, the most useful in your scenario is the Sonic transporter (from small Green Computer). 

It basically sits on your network and allows the NDS to see Roon as a UPnP source. 

The Sonic transporter would take the place of your egg and DAC. 

AFAIK the NDS shows in the Roon app as an "endpoint" and receives the signal through Ethernet just as it would normally. 

.sjb

Thanks John. I am confused because you refer to Sonore UPnP bridge as 'software' but when I google it, I seem to be looking at another piece of hardware. Can you elaborate a bit please?

David O'Higgins posted:

Sloop John B posted:

David, there is a software called Sonore UPnP bridge, which runs on a few products, the most useful in your scenario is the Sonic transporter (from small Green Computer). 

It basically sits on your network and allows the NDS to see Roon as a UPnP source. 

The Sonic transporter would take the place of your egg and DAC. 

AFAIK the NDS shows in the Roon app as an "endpoint" and receives the signal through Ethernet just as it would normally. 

.sjb

Thanks John. I am confused because you refer to Sonore UPnP bridge as 'software' but when I google it, I seem to be looking at another piece of hardware. Can you elaborate a bit please?

 

The Sonore UPnP Bridge is software, however it is only available on the Sonore hardware products.

The cheapest and dedicated to the UPnP Bridge is https://www.smallgreencomputer...?variant=32991451407
The rest that can also run your Roon Core are here https://www.smallgreencomputer...ections/audio-server

Does this help? Thanks, Simon.

So I would need this, and a Sonic Transporter?

No - the UPnP Bridge unit is dedicated just as the UPnP Bridge, if your Roon Core was running elsewhere, on a NUC say, with the library running on USB disks or a NAS.

If you have a Sonic Transporter, this provides the platform to run the Roon Core, plus storage for your library, plus it can run the UPnP Bridge. Effectively equivalent to your Melco unit.