New to Hi fi . Need a bit of advice

My three black boxes (272, XPSDR, 250DR) and a pair of used SL2s cost me under £11,000. You'd have to spend a lot more to significantly better it.

Hungryhalibut posted:

My three black boxes (272, XPSDR, 250DR) and a pair of used SL2s cost me under £11,000. You'd have to spend a lot more to significantly better it.

Apart from the SL2's that's a good set up 

I would certainly give the 272/250DR an audition with a number of speakers suited to your room/ taste in music. Depending on speakers you should be able to try out some decent cables and/ or put put the balance toward a power supply

My wife has spent more time in hi fi shops than I ever imagined she would.   She loves and listens to more music than I do.   I have my favorite music and she discovers the much of the rest.   She rules out speakers that are too big, too ugly,  or too boomy.  Or too expensive.  She leaves the rest to me.   She wins every argument that is important to her, and I take care of it from there.  It is working well so far. 

Come see us sometime.

Any system that entails using a 250 is good.

272/250DR seems to be the best way to do it today. However, there is something to be said for keeping the preamp separate - digital tech simply evolves too fast, while the preamps get refreshed once every 10 yrs.

If the UnitiCore's digital out quality is any indication - we'll be back to the world of separates. Back to 282/HiCapDR/250 with uniticore/nDac. Unfortunately, 282/Hicapdr and nDac are all a little dated. So we're back to 272/250. :-)

MangoMonkey posted:

Any system that entails using a 250 is good.

272/250DR seems to be the best way to do it today. However, there is something to be said for keeping the preamp separate - digital tech simply evolves too fast, while the preamps get refreshed once every 10 yrs.

If the UnitiCore's digital out quality is any indication - we'll be back to the world of separates. Back to 282/HiCapDR/250 with uniticore/nDac. Unfortunately, 282/Hicapdr and nDac are all a little dated. So we're back to 272/250. :-)

Well... That sums it up. Damned if you do.

Wait for the Super Nova. Probably the right solution at the price point and won't tempt you into possible divorce court.

Why start with setting a budget and going all out to spend it?

There's a point where hi fi becomes 'much' better - in terms of allowing you to readily access music - and a point where you have to expend ridiculous amounts to gain marginal improvements. And sometimes these 'improvements' don't make the kit easy to live with - for example, the greater the dynamics available from a system - the louder you need to run it.

I spent the late 80s-mid 90s chasing the Naim upgrade path and ended up with a system which overall, I enjoyed less than a far more modest set up I'd owned at the beginning of the journey. A recent trip to the Acoustica show brought this home to me again - an Atom running through a pair of modest Dynaudio speakers gave one of the most 'listenable' sounds in any of the rooms - yet it was about the cheapest system on demo.

I'd start listening far further down the Naim heiarchy - and listen to some alternatives as well. You may be pleasantly surprised by what less money will buy you.

One final point - I wouldn't contemplate getting into debt to buy a hi fi system - but perhaps that's just me....

richardhomer posted:

 for example, the greater the dynamics available from a system - the louder you need to run it.

Far from a tenet in my experience. No doubt there's a speaker/amp synergy and speaker efficiency comes into play. Still, I've found that a more powerful amp better commands a given speaker at lower volume. As one who usually listens at lower volume, I'd say that high quality watts and headroom are never wasted.

Yet to be heard in a domestic environment but what about taking another route and have a one box solution, get Naim Nova and a very decent pair of speakers. Those that have heard the Nova report that its (ermm) a stellar performer. Depending on your choice of speakers you should have some healthy change from your £10k budget and a great sounding system. 

I believe you need to take a step back and consider the whole system budget. Spending 10000£ on amps to me indicate a balanced system (incl. matching speakers, 2 sources and accessories) with a budget 3-4 times of that, is this your ambition?

Are you sure you want a Naim system?

Pcd posted:

I would speak to your local dealer and arrange to visit to discuss varoius options and arrange demos within your budget just take your time and enjoy your journey.

This is really good advice.

richardhomer posted:

Why start with setting a budget and going all out to spend it?

There's a point where hi fi becomes 'much' better - in terms of allowing you to readily access music - and a point where you have to expend ridiculous amounts to gain marginal improvements. And sometimes these 'improvements' don't make the kit easy to live with - for example, the greater the dynamics available from a system - the louder you need to run it.

I spent the late 80s-mid 90s chasing the Naim upgrade path and ended up with a system which overall, I enjoyed less than a far more modest set up I'd owned at the beginning of the journey. A recent trip to the Acoustica show brought this home to me again - an Atom running through a pair of modest Dynaudio speakers gave one of the most 'listenable' sounds in any of the rooms - yet it was about the cheapest system on demo.

I'd start listening far further down the Naim heiarchy - and listen to some alternatives as well. You may be pleasantly surprised by what less money will buy you.

One final point - I wouldn't contemplate getting into debt to buy a hi fi system - but perhaps that's just me....

Some good advice there from RichardH…

I also heard that same system at the Accoustica Show and was seriously taken aback as to how good it was. The combination of Atom & Dynaudio Emit M20 speakers clearly demonstrated the case for a contemporary modest system (costing circa £2.5K all in) capable of providing a heart and soul connection to the music - and at decent sound pressure levels too. At that show, the more flamboyant systems were better, but they were hugely more expensive.  A friend who attended the event with me, thought that good sound quality meant a 5K plus budget minimum. He now intends to audition this Atom based system at home. 

As mentioned by a few bods, the new Unitis are going to be easily in budget. I would hold fire until they are eventually released into the wild, then start by auditioning the Atom first, and then move up the range to the Nova. Simply to experience how much extra you have to spend to get a significant uplift in performance. Then perhaps finally audition these units against the established 'classic' range. Then you will be well informed as to what to expect from an intro system and how far down the rabbit hole you want to plunge to better that single box of tricks.  

A good dealer is going to be essential for the budget outlined, as the possibilities are going to be endless and the potential for an expensive mistake considerable - especially if considering finance. I'd visit a few retailers and your instincts will soon tell you who's helpful and who's a box shifter.

Good luck with your search and enjoy the quest.

You've mentioned upgrading, but in a vague way. I think you need to think seriously about what you intend, either identifying what is your intended goal, and if it is considerably higher level than what you are expecting for £10k or maybe £15k whether you want to get there in the most financially efficient way, minimising steps but with a system that at various stages will be held back by some component or other, or whether maintaining best balance at each step is most important, which might cost considerably more in total over the journey but would ensure the best sound for the money at each step.

Also, you will need to decide what kind of sound suits you, bearing in mind that different people have different ideas and preferences as to how music should sound, the Naim approach being one - e.g to some people 'PRaT' is most important and other things don't matter as long as their toes tap (check out the recent toe tapping fixation thread). Some crave hearing (and feeling) even the lowest bass in a recording just as if it were live, while others seem not to like low bass at all. Some want fidelity to whatever was recorded, even if that means a bad recording sounds bad, while others want a smooth sounding sound that removes unwanted harshness. None is right or wrong, other than what gives you most enjoyment of your music - a dealer might try to lead you one way, and there is nothing wrong with that if you listen with an open mind and decide he is right, but bear in mind that dealers have tgeir own preferences for sound that are not necessarily the same as yours, and ultimately tgey are there to make money (which includes long term if they feel you are upgrade material).

At the budget you are talking about I would be looking to buy much of it secondhand or at least ex-demo: with the exception of the digital side of things where progress remains relatively rapid, things tend not to be outdone by new developments particularly rapidly.

Regarding source, you say it is from a Mac, but don't mention what is doing the rendering of the files to convert them to a digital music stream, nor what DAC. If you are using the Mac's analogue audio output that will be capable of very considerable improvement. I would look at installing either something like Audirvana, for best capable sound quality internal to the Mac, or maybe Roon if its greater information giving facilities are more important to you (both available on free trial). With both of these you can bypass the Mac's soundcard and use d dedicated USB bus, so outputting by USB. 

Then a DAC - for best 'bang for buck' my recommendation would be Chord Hugo, though for best sound quality it will need an isolator between it and the computer to isolate it from the computer's noisy electrical environment (I used the inexpensive Gustard U12, but there are other options). Hugo comes as the original, and the new improved Hugo 2, also the Hugo TT, and there is also its very low cosy little brother, Mojo which apparently is not far short of Hugo for sound quality   - indeed some say as good. Much on these on this forum. They can also be used direct into a power amp without bothering with a preamp, with the benefit of shorter, simpler signal path, but some people prefer through a preamp, and almost certainly if want the 'Naim sound' a Naim preamp is probably essential (N.B only the Hugo 2 and TT have remote controls, so if using without preamp the others are adjusted in the old-fashioned way.

Regarding the Mac, one option would be to move your music onto a NAS (network attached storage), and use some other device as a renderer or use a combined renderer and DAC ("streamer") - NDX is popular and well regarded as an a streamer, and popularly upgraded by using it just as a renderer by adding an external DAC (Hugo is popular). An alternative would be a combined store and renderer that can feed a DAC direct -like the Mac but specialised and dedicated, with clean output not needing isolating, and not affected by other usage of the computer. Melco is good (to me indistinguishable from Audirvana on a dedicated Mac Mini), Innuos Zenith is said to be better, while another possibility is the new Naim Uniti Core, though it has had some teething problems and its sound quality in this mode is as yet unconfirmed. The advantage of the combined store/renderer approach is that it removes the possible vagaries of streaming files across a network, with which some people have encountered problems.

Finally, a component worthy of the utmost care in choosing is the speakers, as they make the biggest overall cobtribution to the character of the sound you hear - much on this to be found on this forum. Some people will say "you only need x", or you system won't sound good if the speakers are too good for the rest of the system- but what matters is whether they sound good to your ears in your room, and here I would refer you also to my first paragraph, as that can make a difference. 

Very sage advice from Richard H particularly the final bit about "financing" a hifi system. In my humble opinion this hobby is questionable enough if one is lucky enough to have enough disposable income to buy kit but the thought of borrowing to do it is another thing altogether. 

As many have said here you can assemble a brilliant system for far less than £10k particularly if you are savy in the used market (where Naim kit is plentiful and very often cared for and in good condition). Please take your time, listen to entry level gear if you can - the new Uniti range which is fantastic- and don't borrow any money to buy it - ever!!

I agree S3 and RH. 

The beauty of separates hifi is the advance in stages philosophy. When you love music it can be enjoyed on many levels of system. 

Starting modestly helps to appreciate what can be gained when more funds come available. I should sound so sanctimonious!

.... mind you, my first "system"  was a six transistor radio! oops I think I might have just justified Naims upgrade forever raison d'etre!