S-800's

The minimum recommended amps for S-400s and S-600s weren't that lofty by Naim's standards. Are the S-800s really so onerous? How about a NAP250DR and the best NAC you can afford for your NDX?

Allante93 posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

Drewy posted:

I don't think I'd bother unless I had a 500 and then I'd be saving for another two to complete the job. 

You have a big room? I've never seen or heard 800s but I have 400s and have seen 600s. The 800s look huge.

I have a fairly large room 850 square feet with 20+ foot ceiling. So overall volume of the room is quite large.

Just attended an event last Saturday, Baby Grand, violinist, and guitar. Sunken Living Room French Design Home.

Living Room not quite as large as yours, 700 square feet!

Not Bad, Bach, and Satin Doll, point being, with a room that size you can use Speakers of that magnitude!

Have you considered Wilsons New 109K Alexx!

If I recall, all Amps Clips, I wouldn't be shy with power!

D Agostino Mono Blocks/Alexx

Even Alexia!

Keep an open Mind!

BTW Nice Home!

Allante93!

I'm actually going to be demoing the new Linn Klimax system this summer. The 800's were just something I've never seen available used in the USA. No interest in 500 system so I guess I'll just forget about them.

If it was me, and a bargain on something I felt could be excellent and I couls afford, but maybe uncertain (e.g. due to comments on here), I'd be inclined to hear as otherwise I'd risk forever thinking 'what if...'

Kevin Richardson posted:

Ikoun posted:

Lucky guy !

Heard them on NAP300 passive with the 272 (poor source) and full lomm SL. We could really feel the lack of abilities of the source but the speakers were singing so well !! S800 are marvelous speakers and they are also very good in passive. Of course, a quiet large room is required. They are able to spread the music in such a magic way.... a masterpice definitely and a big pity to stop the production !

So a 272 + 300 + 800 should sound better than my NDX + SN2 + HICAPDR + S400 + REL G2 sub? Obviously a fully active setup is optimal but I'm looking for lowest cost solution that makes a significant improvement.

The dealer wants 20k for the 800's which seems like a deal since the MSRP was 60k if I recall correctly.

 

S400 and S800 even with the same esthetic are in an other galaxy. So, as i am part of the people who think that too many music lover don't put enough money in their speakers, yes i think definitely so (that 272 + 300 + 800 should sound better than my NDX + SN2 + HICAPDR + S400 + REL G2 sub).

They work very well in passive. I have S600 passive for years and i would not change for sure unless i have money to go to S800. Also, don't forget that it has been told that they were easier to drive than S600...

As i am used with a NDS, i felt the difference quiet clear with the 272 but i could realise the difference between the S600 and the S800. It is more important than between S400 and S600.

I would jump on them ;-) Listen to them at the dealer first, i think you should have a large smile on your face imagining them in your listening room ;-)

Cheers

Kevin Richardson posted:

I meant 60k $ USD. Prices are always much higher in the USA. I'm never going to 500 level Naim system. I just like my 400's so much. Thought about getting 600's as I figured they were just a better version of 400's. I haven't seen much love around here for the 600's though.

There are a lot of variations on the S-600, with respect to the crossover–the S-400, on the other hand, is exactly as it was when released: fully baked.

Problem is: at that room size, you're going to lose some definition IMHO; even an expensive pair of Wilsons isn't gonna make things happen with your current electronics.

Dealer advice here would be well recommended, provided that you've got access to an experienced Naim dealer.

DavidDever posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

I meant 60k $ USD. Prices are always much higher in the USA. I'm never going to 500 level Naim system. I just like my 400's so much. Thought about getting 600's as I figured they were just a better version of 400's. I haven't seen much love around here for the 600's though.

There are a lot of variations on the S-600, with respect to the crossover–the S-400, on the other hand, is exactly as it was when released: fully baked.

Problem is: at that room size, you're going to lose some definition IMHO; even an expensive pair of Wilsons isn't gonna make things happen with your current electronics.

Dealer advice here would be well recommended, provided that you've got access to an experienced Naim dealer.

Interesting re S600 crossover. That might account for why they just didn't perform for me over the year I agonised tweaking them every which way but loose!. My S400 are much much better.

G

GraemeH posted:

DavidDever posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

I meant 60k $ USD. Prices are always much higher in the USA. I'm never going to 500 level Naim system. I just like my 400's so much. Thought about getting 600's as I figured they were just a better version of 400's. I haven't seen much love around here for the 600's though.

There are a lot of variations on the S-600, with respect to the crossover–the S-400, on the other hand, is exactly as it was when released: fully baked.

Problem is: at that room size, you're going to lose some definition IMHO; even an expensive pair of Wilsons isn't gonna make things happen with your current electronics.

Dealer advice here would be well recommended, provided that you've got access to an experienced Naim dealer.

Interesting re S600 crossover. That might account for why they just didn't perform for me over the year I agonised tweaking them every which way but loose!. My S400 are much much better.

G

Were the newer 600's improved to the point of surpassing 400's?

Kevin, just out of interest, if you are seriously considering a Linn Klimax system, why is a 500 Naim system ruled out? Both are a similar price I think. If you got the 800s for only the 20k - which is a bargain, and could get a used 552/500 you'd have a great setup that could more than equal the Klimax, I'd have thought. 

Kevin Richardson posted:

GraemeH posted:

DavidDever posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

I meant 60k $ USD. Prices are always much higher in the USA. I'm never going to 500 level Naim system. I just like my 400's so much. Thought about getting 600's as I figured they were just a better version of 400's. I haven't seen much love around here for the 600's though.

There are a lot of variations on the S-600, with respect to the crossover–the S-400, on the other hand, is exactly as it was when released: fully baked.

Problem is: at that room size, you're going to lose some definition IMHO; even an expensive pair of Wilsons isn't gonna make things happen with your current electronics.

Dealer advice here would be well recommended, provided that you've got access to an experienced Naim dealer.

Interesting re S600 crossover. That might account for why they just didn't perform for me over the year I agonised tweaking them every which way but loose!. My S400 are much much better.

G

Were the newer 600's improved to the point of surpassing 400's?

You get rid of the s600 internal crossover by using an active setup. The Snaxo BMR was developed having that in mind and seems to improve the S600's strongly. Many posts regarding the Snaxo BMR by Darke Bear.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Kevin, just out of interest, if you are seriously considering a Linn Klimax system, why is a 500 Naim system ruled out? Both are a similar price I think. If you got the 800s for only the 20k - which is a bargain, and could get a used 552/500 you'd have a great setup that could more than equal the Klimax, I'd have thought. 

You don't see used 500 level Naim gear very often in the US. The list price with tax for a 552/500 combo is about 83,000$ USD! The Klimax system includes streamer and DAC at performance level close to NDS. So the Naim system NDS/XPS/552/500/800's without cables would be close to 125,000$ USD! My total max max max budget is 70k$USD.

The only Naim system I've ever heard is my SN2. The local dealer claims I have the only real Naim HiFi in the State of Nebraska! ( He carries Naim but has only sold a few UnitiLites and not much else. ) I've never heard a Linn system. In fact.... I have no real experience with anything other than what I own.  (Well my brother in law has a very nice system with a high end LP12 that sounds better than my system. He is fortunate to have a perfectly rectangular room of modest dimensions.) Honestly I bought my system because I enjoyed the passion of this forum.

The main attractions to the Klimax Exakt system are: no analog cables, 6 way active speakers with digital crossovers, only 1 box and sophisticated room optimization.

Fortunately, I'm going to get to listen to the 800's in a passive 500 level system at same time I demo the Linn. Should be an eye opening experience for me.

The 800 idea was kind of a lark. I thought maybe a 250DR or 300 would be sufficient if not optimal.

If you haven't come across it there's a website that identifies secondhand hifi equipment on sale on various sites, worldwide. Name starts Hifi and ends with the name of a type of big fish that is the top of the fish food chain (even known to eat people -the fish that is, not the website!). Out of interest I just looked and there's currently a 500 up for sale in the ISA at a very good price, shipping within US. (Usual caveat emptor applies of course.)

I often think a larger room would be nice - ours is 12' by 16' by 7'6" but an 850 square foot room takes a lot of filling. My system can really drive the room and become very immersive. We have a concrete floor, brick walls and massive fire doors. I can imagine a system could easily sound out of its depth in a really big space. As I said I've heard the SL2 at Naim driven by a 500 in their large room and it was excellent. I can imagine that a 300 on the s400 would be similarly room filling. Another option could be to buy used gear from the uk and have it shipped and converted to 110V. A 552/500 for say £28,000 is not so bad, given the weakness of the pound. 

Yes, we are all on the same page!

20KUSD ~ 18.4KEUR

20KUSD ~ 15.4KGBP

Brand new ~ 28KGBP

I,ve done the Netherlands, Germany, China, Canada, it's really about the Loot!

And my new word, are the 800s really that ONEROUS? 

Passive now, Wonky Latter!

MY HOUSE IS 1500 SQUARE FEET!

Allante93!

with a big room, placement is usually much less restricted - and 'filling' it is not always necessary - sound level requirements depend on just where you sit in relation to the speakers, and that might not necessarily be any further than someone 's positioning in a smaller room.

interestingly I once had occasion to play my system outdoors: speakers were old IMF RSPMs, positioned on boxes to raise them a bit, placed about 18' apart on the front of a patio at rear of the garden, facing towards the house something like 65' away, the garden about 26ft wide between quite tall hedges, with only veg/flowerbed and then lawn between the speakers and the patio at the back of the house. The sound was absolutely superb -best I have ever heard from any speakers before or since, which no doubt was due to the absence of standing waves, and low levels of reflections  - and even though they were not the most efficient of speakers (low 80s dB/w/m) a very decent sound level was achievable in the middle of the garden. To me it would be fantastic to get a listening environment like that for normal play, and wonder if a very large listening room perhaps starts to get that way, though with still some standing waves, reflections can still be significant  - but whether the S800 is suited to such an open environment I have no idea.

I would be happy with a second hand 552/500 combo,  (non DR is fine, you can be happy forever or go DR when the madness swells again). Woulds expect to pay around $45k Australian. So $37k USD. Put it with your S800s, get a few dollars back for the S400s. Muck around with shipping etc and your budget is fine. Heard S800s passive with a Statement. Very nice. Can't imagine that passive 500/S800 set up is that much down the scale. So if I were you. ..just do it.

are the speakers you mention for sale located out here in California?

greekspec2 posted:

are the speakers you mention for sale located out here in California?

A competitor to buy them at that price?

steve95775 posted:

I would be happy with a second hand 552/500 combo,  (non DR is fine, you can be happy forever or go DR when the madness swells again). Would expect to pay around $45K Australian. So $37K USD. Put it with your S800s, get a few dollars back for the S400s. Muck around with shipping etc and your budget is fine.

Heard S800s passive with a Statement. Very nice.

Can't imagine that passive 500/S800 set up is that much down the scale. So if I were you. ..just do it.

+2

Not to mention:

""what Dan D'Agostino appears to have done with his Momentum monoblock amplifier ($55,000/pair)—his first new product since leaving Krell, the company he cofounded more than 30 years ago......

Compact yet powerful
Unlike the often large, boxy Krells of yore, the 5"-high, 95-lb Momentum is remarkably compact for an amplifier rated at 300, 600, or 1200 watts into, respectively, 8, 4, or 2 ohms. While the central power meter dominates the faceplate, the thick copper side panels draw equal attention. And they're bolted to a chassis machined from a single aluminum billet.

Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/con...#XfHEDge7ulYm91QC.99""

Maybe not 1 Horsepower (740 Watts)

But not 180K ( 2 x 90K )

Just saying!

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

steve95775 posted:

I would be happy with a second hand 552/500 combo,  (non DR is fine, you can be happy forever or go DR when the madness swells again). Would expect to pay around $45K Australian. So $37K USD. Put it with your S800s, get a few dollars back for the S400s. Muck around with shipping etc and your budget is fine.

Heard S800s passive with a Statement. Very nice.

Can't imagine that passive 500/S800 set up is that much down the scale. So if I were you. ..just do it.

+2

Not to mention:

""what Dan D'Agostino appears to have done with his Momentum monoblock amplifier ($55,000/pair)—his first new product since leaving Krell, the company he cofounded more than 30 years ago......

Compact yet powerful
Unlike the often large, boxy Krells of yore, the 5"-high, 95-lb Momentum is remarkably compact for an amplifier rated at 300, 600, or 1200 watts into, respectively, 8, 4, or 2 ohms. While the central power meter dominates the faceplate, the thick copper side panels draw equal attention. And they're bolted to a chassis machined from a single aluminum billet.

Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/con...#XfHEDge7ulYm91QC.99""

Maybe not 1 Horsepower (740 Watts)

But not 180K ( 2 x 90K )

Just saying!

Allante93!

 

Have always admired Krell amplification. Ran a KSA 50 and then a KSA 100 into my Linn Kans for a while. Of all the American super amps, Krell stood out for me as being fairly musical. I was unaware that Dan D'Agostino had a new venture. Very interesting! 

Also loved the "grip" that Krell had on hard to drive speakers. Sold a quartet of KMA-200s to a client with Apogee Duetta's. Awesome. He kindly loaned me a pair for a month and I got to try them on passive Isobariks. What a revelation. Sure 135's had it over the Krells for musicality but they showed up the 135s in many areas. Particularly bass! I toyed with replacing my 3x250s with KSA50s, but we never had three in stock for me to give it a bash.

Just before I bought my 172/200 combo I tried the integrated 50w Krell. Very tempting. There are great products over the other side of the pond.

steve95775 posted:

Also loved the "grip" that Krell had on hard to drive speakers. Sold a quartet of KMA-200s to a client with Apogee Duetta's. Awesome. He kindly loaned me a pair for a month and I got to try them on passive Isobariks. What a revelation. Sure 135's had it over the Krells for musicality but they showed up the 135s in many areas. Particularly bass! I toyed with replacing my 3x250s with KSA50s, but we never had three in stock for me to give it a bash.

Just before I bought my 172/200 combo I tried the integrated 50w Krell. Very tempting. There are great products over the other side of the pond.

If I wasn't an Aktiv fan, I would've given Krell a go. When my LK 280s went out, it seemed the the logical move was to Activate my Briks with Naim. 

Hence, Passive Tri-amped, at the moment.

That being said, had the opportunity to hear the D Agostino Mono Blocks, last year.

Seminar, Ann Arbor Mi, powering. Wilson's new kid on the Block, Alexx!

Verrry Impresive! 

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

steve95775 posted:

Also loved the "grip" that Krell had on hard to drive speakers. Sold a quartet of KMA-200s to a client with Apogee Duetta's. Awesome. He kindly loaned me a pair for a month and I got to try them on passive Isobariks. What a revelation. Sure 135's had it over the Krells for musicality but they showed up the 135s in many areas. Particularly bass! I toyed with replacing my 3x250s with KSA50s, but we never had three in stock for me to give it a bash.

Just before I bought my 172/200 combo I tried the integrated 50w Krell. Very tempting. There are great products over the other side of the pond.

If I wasn't an Aktiv fan, I would've given Krell a go. When my LK 280s went out, it seemed the the logical move was to Activate my Briks with Naim. 

Hence, Passive Tri-amped, at the moment.

That being said, had the opportunity to hear the D Agostino Mono Blocks, last year.

Seminar, Ann Arbor Mi, powering. Wilson's new kid on the Block, Alexx!

Verrry Impresive! 

Allante93!

 Also part of consideration when I was plumping for a hifi last time were the Linn Audronik Aktiv. Loved the concept and had a strong bias to Linn. I have owned Isobariks, Saras and Kans, all both active and passive. Have gone off the reservation with Meridin active too. Have also been happy with Linn Khelids. And don't forget my love of LP12s. 

The Linn dealer here in Perth three years ago was hopeless. So I sadly decided against Linn. Situation now is much different but you can't know the future.

But in the end basically grabbed the 172/200/S400 system as a starter. I hadn't had a decent hifi for a decade and figured that anything would be okay, even as a way to re-orient myself to todays world.

Next time round will investigate Linn again, or go nuts with a NAP 300 with the trimmings. But for now quite surprised at the quality that what is basically mid-fi offers.

An £8,000 system mid-fi! Really? 

Hungryhalibut posted:

An £8,000 system mid-fi! Really? 

I'd call that low-fi. From observations in real life and both this forum... things can get so much crazier than that. So my scale
0-5000 entry level
5000-10.000 lower end
10000-20000 mid
20000-40000 serious enthousiast
40000- ....  unknown territory

BTW biggest upgrade for me this year was installing Roon on my mac mini. So much more enjoyment out of my collection that it is hard to believe how I was listening before. For one, the app is just very easy to operate. Secondly, TIDAL integration is superbly done. And last but not least; it just sounds right. All that and I'm still in my free trial. Now that's a bargain.

My GBP 250 Nait 5 is definitely hi-fi, as long as it has efficient speakers in a not too large room.