Next upgrade step

Evening, Welcome!

My only comment is about your Stageline and HC that powers it. Some forum memebers have reported being very happy with the Stageline powered from Aux2 of a NAC which is Supercapped.  I mention it because the sale of your HC could free up funds for whatever you decide to do next.

Others will be able to help with the main body of your query.

252. Naim is really all about the pre. If you like the 252 over the 282 then it's the logical upgrade. My caveat would just be to max sources first as your pre is already excellent!

Stu

Can't believe no one already had that name!! 

I've just put that on! 

Let me pretend it is my money...Hmmm... I'd sell the XPS and buy a Hugo 2. With the left over $, I'd buy some s-400's and call it a day. But... I only listen to digital sourced music and I am extremely biased.

Since you like headphones (I do too!) I'd definitely look at the Hugo 2. I have a Hugo and it is excellent with IEMs and headphones. [Disclaimer: My Hugo died after 2.5 years. Needs a new battery.]

Hi. I'd definitely look at a 252. Not a huge leap with the trade in. (Worked for me!) Then if you can get your head around the price try some SuperLumina interconnects. Dangerous once heard .. OH and just to confuse things if you can find some S400s then leap ..

Speakers... without a doubt.

and... with such a fine Naim setup I'd double the speaker budget too.

I had an almost identical line up to you (NDX/282 .. SC ../250DR) and elected to go to the 252.  I don't regret the decision for a moment.  The 252 brings a heft and majesty that the 282 lacks.

Changing from a 282/SC to 252 is a sideways move IMHO. You'll lose some of the PRAT and liveliness of the 282 for a slightly more refined and laid back sound of the 252, but not a "game changing" difference, although well within your budget.

If you are prepared to sell your NDX/XPS and buy S/H, an NDS/555PS is just about doable on your budget and will be provide a noticeable improvement in sound. You may be able to arrange a  good deal with a Naim dealer perhaps for their demo equipment, certainly worth contacting a few to see what they can come up with.

During a demo last year to upgrade my Olive system I much preferred the 252 to the 282 in the context of my system as purchased.

The 252 was more refined  had more  detail and control I was using a 250dr at the demo and did purchase a 250dr at the time. 

It is unfortunate that you cannot demo to see what suit you and your system. 

Welcome - great name indeed.   

I wouldn't move to a 252 without a demo - you might love it but there's enough stuff on here by some which will say it's not an upgrade.  I can't comment on the Hugo option but if you intend to remain with a Naim streamer go get a 555 as I'm intending to do for my CDS3. 

And speakers - Kudos, Neat, Dynaudio, ATC...............

Good luck,

Lindsay

Hi all,

Thanks for the responses so far, much appreciated.

Forum name seem to choose its-self from a classic album of my youth. Might even dust it off and give it a spin later!

Anyhow.....back to the question(s).

I would like to clarify that I can travel to an authorised dealer, it's just that a home demo would be tricky due to my location.

Each one of these upgrades will most likely happen over the next 12 months or so (with the 1st in the next few weeks)  if I can hear the benefit to each one, It's really which to do 1st?

The 252 seemed a logical step if using the SuperCap currently with the 282. A dealer demo will be the decider.....after all I may prefer the overall presentation of the 282. 

Totally get the NDS/555 post, source 1st and all that. Unfortunately the NDX is only a few months old and I couldn't bring myself to move it on so soon and I'm really enjoying the music with this at the front end. The NDS may be a step, initially with the XPS DR then to PS555, but that's a way off.

Regarding the speaker conundrum, there's such a choice, each with their own strengths/weaknesses and I feel that the speakers can has the most dramatic influence on the final presentation of the music that this is where most of my deliberating will be. 

Thanks.

Hallowed_Be _Thy_Naim posted:

 

... I feel that the speakers can has the most dramatic influence on the final presentation of the music...

Absolutely. That's why most of my efforts and budget would go to the speakers.

I know the source first approach and all that but... at the end of the day a system will never sound better than the weakest link in the chain allows/can reproduce. A balanced performance of all the components in the audio-chain gives the best results imo.

If speakers are not capable to accurately and/or fully reproduce the carefully created and amplified signal from the $$$ front end, it's all wasted money too. The 'final voice' of a system are the speakers (apart from headphones obviously).

Hallowed_Be _Thy_Naim posted:

 

However, a 252 was always the end game, but will there be good synergy with the rest of the current Naim kit? Do I need to go to NDS/PS555/NAP300 to see real benefit as that may be a step too far financially?

Also a fair proportion of my listening is through headphones and the new Hugo 2 is a consideration as this may improve the NDX and my headphone listening enjoyment.

So.....Which to do 1st?

1. Replace speakers (budget is 4-5k).

2. Purchase 252 & live with current speakers (trade in 282) and get speakers at a later date.

3. Get Hugo 2.

Home demo's are not possible due to location.

Thanks.

282 vs. 252 divides opinion. Quite a few, me included, prefer the presentation of the 282 over the 252. If you like your music to be lively and full of energy, you are likely to favour the 282. If you prefer a more refined and laid back presentation, you'll probably prefer the 252. I found the 252 to be rather boring. Even though I really wanted to like it, it went back to the dealer after a two week home demo. Going for a pre-loved 552 instead, if you feel you must move on from your 282, seems more sensible. 

That said, I'd stick with the set up you have, 282/SC-DR is a stunning preamp combo. Your NDX/XPS-DR is a very good source but little tweaks will deliver quite a bit more. If box count isn't an issue for you, you could add the Naim DAC into the mix and use the XPS-DR to power it. This will provide a very noticeable improvement. You could buy one second hand without any real risk for as little as €1200-1400. Or even less. If you don't like it, you could sell it again without incurring a serious loss. The Naim DAC is lovely. NDX/DAC/XPS-DR/282/SC-DR a stunning front end! One advantage, this is an all Naim front end and the Naim sound is preserved throughout the chain. It will get you pretty close to the NDS/555PS with a relatively small financial outlay. Some people prefer the sound signature of the Naim DAC over that of the NDS. I haven't listened to the latter so cannot give any insight.

Alternatively, Hugo or Hugo 2 are compelling options. In terms of resolution the Hugo even beats an nDAC/555PS (non DR) front end. What it lacks slightly is the bottom end bass presentation of the Naim DAC. The bass presented by the Hugo is a little crisper / drier / tighter. Apparently the sound signature of the Hugo is closer to the NDS than the nDAC. Advantages: The Hugo offers headphone usage. Again, you could sell it on without loosing too much money. 

In short, I would either add a Naim DAC or Hugo. You could even buy both, keep the one you prefer and sell the other. 

I don't know your speakers, so nothing to offer on that front. Only that your system deserves some very good speakers. Only problem, you really should demo speakers at home.

Good luck!

I had a very similar setup to yours and have just got a 252. Oh my oh my. Nuff said

I had a very similar setup to yours and have just got a 252. Oh my oh my. Nuff said

Hallowed_Be _Thy_Naim posted:

 

Regarding the speaker conundrum, there's such a choice, each with their own strengths/weaknesses and I feel that the speakers can has the most dramatic influence on the final presentation of the music that this is where most of my deliberating will be. 

Thanks.

Of course, if you decided on the Hugo, you could sell your XPS-DR and maybe get some new speakers as well. Probably makes more sense than to go for the 252 at this stage...

It has always amazed me how many deaf people there are on here that prefer the 282 over the 252. Ok, leaving the forum now before I get a good kicking....

Stu

Surely the best advice to the OP is to demo, demo and demo. I realise home demos could be problematic but at least listen to as much stuff at a good dealer as possible. And then persuade that obliging dealer to let the OP home demo the very short shortlist.

All three options the OP proposes are 'legitimate', as are others. Which is why actually listening to the options is so important.

Gotta do the legwork I'm afraid.

totemphile 

282 vs. 252 divides opinion. Quite a few, me included, prefer the presentation of the 282 over the 252. If you like your music to be lively and full of energy, you are likely to favour the 282. If you prefer a more refined and laid back presentation, you'll probably prefer the 252. I found the 252 to be rather boring. Even though I really wanted to like it, it went back to the dealer after a two week home demo. Going for a pre-loved 552 instead, if you feel you must move on from your 282, seems more sensible. 

 

Same experience here. Just couldn't figure the 252 out.

stuart.ashen posted:

It has always amazed me how many deaf people there are on here that prefer the 282 over the 252. Ok, leaving the forum now before I get a good kicking....

Stu

I think it has less to do with being deaf and more with preference. There are quite a few old school Naimies who simply prefer the 282 over the 252. Horses for courses...

Hi All,

Thanks again for the responses.

The Naim Dac was the other option to the Hugo 2. Keep it in the Naim family etc. I Do like the Hugo idea though.

If I were to choose the Naim Dac then the XPS DR will power this & not the NDX? I then need to add a digital connection between Dac & NDX then use Hi-Line between Dac & NDX.  Does that mean the NDX is powered from its own internal power supply? Little bit naive here on this bit.

I see there's a few comments on the forum relating to moving on the XPS DR if purchasing a Hugo. Why is this? 

Regarding the 282/252 potential move, I was really drawn to the presentation of the 282 during audition, I did not demo the 252 at the time of 282 purchase. It's interesting to hear forum members comments and this topic clearly splits opinion and is something only I decide for myself during a demo.

For ref: I live on an Island so ferry travel is required as there's no dealers of any description. Hence the home demo issue. I guess if I don't as I don't get.

Thanks.

Get the Cisco Catalyst (see streaming forum) and/or a iFi for any switches you might have. 

Ensure your upnp sounds as good as a usb stick before doing anything else.

How is your system supported? With that many items Fraiming the lot could absorb your budget and if you're still on a Target rack or the like would reap substantial benefits, probably more than a 252 if your racking is lacking. A Naim system responds very well to proper support and attention to cable dressing.

The speakers look a bit left behind and so does the turntable but I've not heard either so can't comment on whether replacement is warranted.

Hallowed_Be _Thy_Naim posted:

 

If I were to choose the Naim Dac then the XPS DR will power this & not the NDX? I then need to add a digital connection between Dac & NDX then use Hi-Line between Dac & NDX.  Does that mean the NDX is powered from its own internal power supply? Little bit naive here on this bit.

I see there's a few comments on the forum relating to moving on the XPS DR if purchasing a Hugo. Why is this? 

 

The general consensus is that the external power supply should power the DAC for best results. When the DAC first came out some reported that they preferred its sound when keeping the power supply on the NDX, it was mainly dealers I think. Most people use the power supply on their Naim DAC, though. The DAC is the final converter of the bit stream into an analogue signal, hence, moving the power supply off board here is only logical IMHO. In this set up, yes, the NDX would run on its own internal power supply. There are some who feel the very best result is achieved by using a power supply both on the NDX and DAC but this would make it a four box digital source, which is quite excessive.

I find the whole idea of having a power supply on the NDX, when feeding the Naim DAC, hard to get my head around. The theory is that it provides a cleaner bit stream to the Naim DAC, e.g. less electrical noise. However, in my experience the Naim DAC is largely immune to the digital signal it is fed, if it is lossless and of good quality. The gained increments in sound quality by optimising the bitstream over and above that are minimal to none in my experience. For example, I cannot distinguish between my €649 Dr. Gert Volk modified Sonos Conect and CDX2.2 (currently retailing at €5748) - both fronting an nDAC/555PS. The NDX provides a very good bit stream as it is.

IMHO it is best to focus on the things that have the biggest impact, rather than getting hung up about minute details in sound quality. Some people love to fiddle with their hifi system endlessly, I prefer to set it up, be done and enjoy the music instead. 

AFAIK no one has reported any benefit from adding an external power supply to a Naim streamer when feeding a Hugo. So introducing one of the Chord DACs would make the XPS-DR pretty much redundant.

ATB