Kudos 707

elkman70 posted:

ChrisSU posted:

The 707s looked quite a bit less imposing than the 808s to me, so I guess the WAF might be higher. Despite being an active setup, I thought their sound fell a long way short of the 808s I heard previously at the same show.

If I recall correctly the Acoustica show in 2016 the 808s were demonstrated with a 552 and active 300dr, whereas in 2017 the 707s were demonstrated with a 252 and active 250dr so it would not be surprising to hear the 808s as much better than the 707s.

I wasn't there in 2016, it would have been the previous year, when the 808s were new. I'm fairly sure they were using NDS/552/300 passive then, but I could be wrong.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Why did you ask for advice if you take no notice? Why didn't you just buy them anyway? 

Okey... to be clear i didn`t ask advice for being caution, I'm actually looking for those who purchased the 707s And can share their experience with me, at the end my friend I will decide.....thank you

Yes, but nobody who has bought the 707s is going to say they are rubbish, are they? Unless there's someone else who bought them without trying them first. Anyway, good luck. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Yes, but nobody who has bought the 707s is going to say they are rubbish, are they? Unless there's someone else who bought them without trying them first. Anyway, good luck. 

Exactly -- by restricting your sample to those who have purchased the speakers in question you create an enormous "selection bias" -- a cardinal sin in research design with bascially no chance of robust findings. Rather you should seek to make your sample more representative --  i.e include all those Naim users who can splash out 13/14K or so on speakers. Not that many people -- not even in the Naim Forum... For robust findings you want to learn about decisions for and against your speakers of desire. Without seriously considering the reasons of those who decided against your Titans, the entire exercise becomes one of ex-post legitimisation...

Timo posted:

 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Yes, but nobody who has bought the 707s is going to say they are rubbish, are they? Unless there's someone else who bought them without trying them first. Anyway, good luck. 

Exactly -- by restricting your sample to those who have purchased the speakers in question you create an enormous "selection bias" -- a cardinal sin in research design with bascially no chance of robust findings. Rather you should seek to make your sample more representative --  i.e include all those Naim users who can splash out 13/14K or so on speakers. Not that many people -- not even in the Naim Forum... For robust findings you want to learn about decisions for and against your speakers of desire. Without seriously considering the reasons of those who decided against your Titans, the entire exercise becomes one of ex-post legitimisation...

Yes, but in practice there is every chance that those who have auditioned Titans and rejected them might respond. Not that there going to be very many of either yet, with a speaker as new as that.

I would like to like the 707s but I'm not very keen on the look in the photographs that I have seen so far. Perhaps they will look better in the "flesh" - like SBLs did 

Love the looks - roll on the T606... 

ChrisSU posted:

Timo posted:

 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Yes, but nobody who has bought the 707s is going to say they are rubbish, are they? Unless there's someone else who bought them without trying them first. Anyway, good luck. 

Exactly -- by restricting your sample to those who have purchased the speakers in question you create an enormous "selection bias" -- a cardinal sin in research design with bascially no chance of robust findings. Rather you should seek to make your sample more representative --  i.e include all those Naim users who can splash out 13/14K or so on speakers. Not that many people -- not even in the Naim Forum... For robust findings you want to learn about decisions for and against your speakers of desire. Without seriously considering the reasons of those who decided against your Titans, the entire exercise becomes one of ex-post legitimisation...

Yes, but in practice there is every chance that those who have auditioned Titans and rejected them might respond. Not that there going to be very many of either yet, with a speaker as new as that.

Very true -- since the speakers are fairly new, one can probably not expect a large "population" of those you have auditioned the 707 for the purpose of buying them. From a reseach design point of view the implication would be to wait until this group is large enough to arrive at a proper sample -- rather than proceeding with "flawed" data. It is that simple.

I will never forget the first time I Heard the Isobariks, Linn did the TT & Speakers, Naim done the electronics. 

No Home demo, but I heard those Briks at least 20 listening secession, before I forked out 3.5K for the Dealers personal pair.

Mind you my particular pair retailed for 7K brand new. Of course, I picked them up a few years later.

Point being, 13K is Similar to 20K USD!

I would propose a Vacation to London, after all your beautiful wife deserves it!

And don't forget to pack your favorite Cds and Albums!!!

Just a thought!

Better safe than sorry!

But in the end, if it's what you want, do it!

In this World there is usually a relationship between price and quality.

Plus I think, the double Isobarik technology is incorporated in those 707s!

Allante93!

The T-808 passive with Naim and active with Exakt or Devialet sound great. With the active Behringer crossover at Acoustica 2016 they were a bit dissappointing. For me, the 707 with SNAXO doesn't have the same depth as the 808,  but they're much more musical - engaging if you like. I admire the 808, but thoroughly enjoy the 707.

YMMV, IMHO blah blah blah etc

Oh, and they are significantly less dominating in the room, physically.

Boy listening to the prices being bantered about for these new versions of Titans I sure am glad I purchased the original Titan T88's when they first came out.  Varyat and I were in the first batch of 10 as was Joe Silva and I also think J.N.  

Back then they were a "bargain"

FWIW I auditioned the first Titans at home, hoping for greater scale and maybe a sweeter treble but similar articulacy to the SL2s. The Kudos were a big disappointment in everything except scale. Hearing other models, it turns out I simply don't like the way Kudos speakers do bass - I find them bloated, slow and lacking in detail and drive.

Michael_B. posted:

FWIW I auditioned the first Titans at home, hoping for greater scale and maybe a sweeter treble but similar articulacy to the SL2s. The Kudos were a big disappointment in everything except scale. Hearing other models, it turns out I simply don't like the way Kudos speakers do bass - I find them bloated, slow and lacking in detail and drive.

How would you compare Shahinia Diapasons to Naim's SL2s?

Allante93 posted:

Michael_B. posted:

FWIW I auditioned the first Titans at home, hoping for greater scale and maybe a sweeter treble but similar articulacy to the SL2s. The Kudos were a big disappointment in everything except scale. Hearing other models, it turns out I simply don't like the way Kudos speakers do bass - I find them bloated, slow and lacking in detail and drive.

How would you compare Shahinia Diapasons to Naim's SL2s?

The Diapasons don't have the low-end slam and detail of the SL2s, which are exceptional in this respect, but they have much greater depth and scale with finer midrange articulacy and treble extension. Providing you have an amplifier able to exert sufficient low-end control, they combine this with plenty of bass dynamism and detail, just not quite like the SL2s. Their effortless sense of depth, scale, space and breath for want of a better word is in my experience unrivalled. And unlike most full-range speakers, they never sound like they are towering over and shouting at you.....

Michael_B. posted:

 The Kudos were a big disappointment in everything except scale. Hearing other models, it turns out I simply don't like the way Kudos speakers do bass - I find them bloated, slow and lacking in detail and drive.

I find their treble quality to be on the HOT side of neutral.

I wonder why so many really get into these speakers? I wonder if it has more to do with their so called association with Naim than any sonic capabilities. As witnessed by the original poster buying the brand "JUST BECAUSE."

badlands posted:

Michael_B. posted:

 The Kudos were a big disappointment in everything except scale. Hearing other models, it turns out I simply don't like the way Kudos speakers do bass - I find them bloated, slow and lacking in detail and drive.

I find their treble quality to be on the HOT side of neutral.

I wonder why so many really get into these speakers? I wonder if it has more to do with their so called association with Naim than any sonic capabilities. As witnessed by the original poster buying the brand "JUST BECAUSE."

I expect there are many other brands of speaker you don't enjoy but many others do.

My two  new acronyms:

WAF & YMMV

The Forum, a learning experience!

Acronyms & Vocabulary.

Interestingly;

S20a = 0.925 x 0.2 x 0.27 = 0.05m3

606 = 0.95 x 0.266 x 0.33 = 0.08m3

707 = 1.05 x 0.298 x 0.37 = 0.116m3

808 = 1.115 x 0.275 x 0.37 = 0.113m3

i.e 707 has largest volume...

elkman70 posted:

Interestingly;

S20a = 0.925 x 0.2 x 0.27 = 0.05m3

606 = 0.95 x 0.266 x 0.33 = 0.08m3

707 = 1.05 x 0.298 x 0.37 = 0.116m3

808 = 1.115 x 0.275 x 0.37 = 0.113m3

i.e 707 has largest volume...

 

I haven't looked up any details [so maybe wrong here] but the 808s use two cabinets - one on top of other; so perhaps that 0.113m3 figure is only one of the 808 cabinets..?

I used the cabinet sizes to calculate the volume. So I guess that the 808 is smaller still as it is two boxes with the associated additional boundaries.

However, there could always be a problem between my chair and calculator

elkman70 posted:

I used the cabinet sizes to calculate the volume(of a perfect cube). So I GUESS that the 808 is smaller still as it is two boxes with the associated additional boundaries.

However, there could always be a problem between my chair and calculator

Just looked at the pictures, the 808s would still be more imposing with the increased height, and neutral width.

I guess we are not dealing with an exact cube!

Hence, the absence of the  triangular volume would account for the error in calculations.

I guess!

Allante93!

sunbeamgls posted:

The T-808 passive with Naim .......

I admire the 808, but thoroughly enjoy the 707.

YMMV, IMHO blah blah blah etc

Oh, and they are significantly less dominating in the room, physically.

I guess it really depends on the given data!

However, examining the photos of the 808s, one can easily see the the Integral impact, which would account for decease in Volume!

But SWMBO, would more than likely prefer the 707s.

New acronym: for me!

WAF!

Allante93!

Looking forward to the reactions of those who will be in the exhibition in Munich for Kudos 707s,  unfortunately I could not come myself.

meni48 posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Why did you ask for advice if you take no notice? Why didn't you just buy them anyway? 

Okey... to be clear i didn`t ask advice for being caution, I'm actually looking for those who purchased the 707s And can share their experience with me, at the end my friend I will decide.....thank you

Nobody has bought 707s yet, except dealer demo stock - and they're waiting for delivery.

meni48 posted:

Looking forward to the reactions of those who will be in the exhibition in Munich for Kudos 707s,  unfortunately I could not come myself.

Check the 606 thread