CDX2 vs streaming.

In theory streamed files from your local source (laptop of a NAS drive) should should better than a CD as they're error corrected when saved, rather than when played as with any CD player.

I have a NAC N-272 and really love it.  Plus I love the naim app, which is really rather cool. . .

Which pre are you comparing the 272 against? 

Hi [@mention:1566878603952804] I'm currently using my SN/HCDR as pre into my 250DR 

I heard Tidal through an NDS 2X555/Statement the other day - very disappointed.  But locally ripped files to FLAC/WAV will be very good indeed.  As opposed to comparison with a top CDP?  I much prefer the CDS3 to a NDS but that's my opinion.  It's all good  

I'm interested in your findings with Tidal. I think it sounds really ropey via my 272 and it baffles me how people can use it as their main source of music - they really are hobbling their system's potential. It's great for casual listening or checking out albums before buying them, but £240 a year is a lot to pay just for that. 

Anyway, I'm glad you are enjoying the 272. Some of the what you are hearing may be down to the superior preamp in the 272 compared to that in the Supernait, and your CDX2 into a 282 may well beat the 272. As to which route you go it's down to box count partly. If you go 282 then it's four boxes, excluding the napsc, and five if you add an XPS. With the 272 it's two, and three if you add the XPS. And with streaming there's something great about downloading albums and not having to buy the CD, and also being able to rip your existing CDs and shove them away in the loft. We had 2,000 CDs cluttering up the place and now we've got our walls back. Of course, you may miss the hands on experience, which some people like. With a 272 you get internet radio and BBC catch up too, all from the Naim app with no need to fire up the computer. 

There is no right way, so think it all through carefully.

Is it possible that the 272 pre is better than the SN?  Did you think about trying a NDX into the SN?

The CDX2 is at NDX level for a lot of people.

To test that, you could try the CDX2 into the 272, against the 272 streamer. 

I've done just that. I could not decern any difference between nearly £5500 of CDX2 and TQ black diamond DIN into 272 and streamed lossless files from my £500 laptop. 

I have heard Tidal a few times now and, like others above, cannot understand how something that sounds like poor AM radio with over-compression, can even remotely be contemplated as a source. One would be better off finding a YouTube video and let the visual distraction mitigate the poor sound quality, if the only use is of trying out new music.  

Finkfan posted:

I've done just that. I could not decern any difference between nearly £5500 of CDX2 and TQ black diamond DIN into 272 and streamed lossless files from my £500 laptop. 

That's another nice thing about the 272/250: apart from the speaker cables it only needs one wire to link it together. It's one of the reasons I went that way rather than NDX/SN2. 

Interesting conclusions so far.

Does your 272 need a run in time, like most black boxes?

I'm interested in the pros and cons of streaming, so please keep posting your findings. 

Interesting, WAV from a Synology NAS into my NDX (into olives/B&W804s) sounds significantly better than Tidal which is a bit flat and compressed in comparison, but nowhere near as bad as being experienced by other people. The vast majority of my listening is done via the turntable and local streaming, but if I want to listen to something I don't happen to own (or the cat won't let me get up to go to the turntable) I'm quite happy with  acceptable sound quality from Tidal. I don't think I'd live with Tidal as my only source, but I can certainly enjoy music through it when I want to hear something, indeed that's why I bought the NDX, otherwise the HDX would still be my main digital source.

It could be down to the quality of the Internet connection, I'm lucky enough to have a good Infinty connection which seems to offer lots of bandwidth with reasonable latency and jitter. Or it could be as simple as the flatness of the Tidal sound being partly compensated by the 82/135 amps. Or it might just be my tolerance level for the lack of dynamics is higher than others.

Nick from Suffolk posted:

I have heard Tidal a few times now and, like others above, cannot understand how something that sounds like poor AM radio with over-compression, can even remotely be contemplated as a source. One would be better off finding a YouTube video and let the visual distraction mitigate the poor sound quality, if the only use is of trying out new music.  

When Tidal integration first arrived, it was widely praised on this forum as sounding pretty good, with many users saying it was very close to the standard of local streaming from a NAS/server. I'm curious as to why, over the course of time, some have been less complimentary about it? My own findings are that at its best (and it's quality can be inconsistent) Tidal is not really very much worse than a local CD rip. I have certainly never heard it sounding anywhere near as bad as YouTube.

[@mention:50422349809511500] the 272 has only been up and running since Friday and I have no idea how much burn in time is needed. You have to pop round for a listen and see what you think. I still have a lot to figure out. I don't know how to get the thumbnail images of my music to show up on the app. Just get a black box. I've not tried Spotify yet. Not sure if you need to sign up to a paid account for that to work? Or if I can send the free version over from my iPhone via Bluetooth? I've got a few weeks to have a play around. 

I'm sure it's not really that bad, but in my experience it's nothing like a CD rip and I've always said as much, right from when we started beta testing it. I've had three free trials and during that time I've listened to quite a few albums and always been disappointed. I've found it thin and weedy sounding, and as Finkfan noted, sort of flat. At least I've never had to pay for it. 

Finkfan posted:

[@mention:50422349809511500] the 272 has only been up and running since Friday and I have no idea how much burn in time is needed. You have to pop round for a listen and see what you think. I still have a lot to figure out. I don't know how to get the thumbnail images of my music to show up on the app. Just get a black box. I've not tried Spotify yet. Not sure if you need to sign up to a paid account for that to work? Or if I can send the free version over from my iPhone via Bluetooth? I've got a few weeks to have a play around. 

I'm sure you will get some posts, that will offer some good advice 

Finkfan posted:

[@mention:50422349809511500] the 272 has only been up and running since Friday and I have no idea how much burn in time is needed. You have to pop round for a listen and see what you think. I still have a lot to figure out. I don't know how to get the thumbnail images of my music to show up on the app. Just get a black box. I've not tried Spotify yet. Not sure if you need to sign up to a paid account for that to work? Or if I can send the free version over from my iPhone via Bluetooth? I've got a few weeks to have a play around. 

You can use the free version of Spotify over Bluetooth, but to use Spotify Connect with the Naim app, you need a paid Premium account. There's probably still a free trial for this.

How does Spotify perform compared to Tidal? 

In my opinion, worse sound quality by some margin (no lossless service, although there are rumours that they will start one) but better in every other respect. 

Thanks Chris 

As being into classical music, I strongly prefer Spotify because many albums are on Spotify. Spotify is for me mainly a directory which I use do discover new music and therefore I would never be able to see Tidal as a serious alternative. Once I like the performance / album / artist / composer, I go to e.g. Qobuz to buy the album and store the downloaded Wavs on my NAS. This gives me the best result. Either good downloads or good CD-rips. All in Wav.

Back to the original topic, a good CD player is something special. I switched on my old Cd5i (by far no CDX2) yesterday since some time and I liked it. It was magic. Music was painted for me in my living room.

My Tidal does not sound very bad at all, I prefer the cd2x but tidal is very close at the moment, I think  power supply on 272 and cisco switch effected tidal more positively thand streaming, or they got very close

ChrisSU posted:

Nick from Suffolk posted:

I have heard Tidal a few times now and, like others above, cannot understand how something that sounds like poor AM radio with over-compression, can even remotely be contemplated as a source. One would be better off finding a YouTube video and let the visual distraction mitigate the poor sound quality, if the only use is of trying out new music.  

When Tidal integration first arrived, it was widely praised on this forum as sounding pretty good, with many users saying it was very close to the standard of local streaming from a NAS/server. I'm curious as to why, over the course of time, some have been less complimentary about it? My own findings are that at its best (and it's quality can be inconsistent) Tidal is not really very much worse than a local CD rip. I have certainly never heard it sounding anywhere near as bad as YouTube.

i found tidal to be very close to local streaming, specially since i upgraded my network.But i prefer discovering music free on itunes , with my ipad, and then downloading on qobuz or highrez audio. 

Charlie posted:

In theory streamed files from your local source (laptop of a NAS drive) should should better than a CD as they're error corrected when saved, rather than when played as with any CD player.

I really don't get that at all. Unless the CD is damaged this is going to be the same whether ripped or played... that is the nature of Redbook, very advanced self correcting data structure for many low density errors. A fault in the CD read that is uncorrectable will result in a glitch in terms of a skip, a silent pause or click... 

Finkfan

i have Tidal with my 272,and I find that some recordings sound great,others not so much.I actually find that internet radio sounds much better than Tidal,I mainly listen to Naim's choice>Naim radio 320k,or Radio paradise 320k,Linn Jazz..these stations sound really good to my ears,although not as good as streamed files.I also just use USB thumb drives plugged directly into the front of the 272,it is quick and easy,and sound exceptional.