Kudos T-606

nigelb posted:

Eloise posted:

nigelb posted:

You would have expected that Naim and Focal would have had the 'active' discussion and my understanding is that Focal have little interest in this direction although I am happy to be corrected on this point.

Well Focal have their own range of (powered) active speakers.

Well that might explain the disinterest in Focal cooperating with Naim over active speakers, although I expect Focal powered active speakers are far higher up the food chain.

Not higher ... the come from their Pro range originally and then the lower to mid range HiFi models now.

aht posted:

In my opinion it has been clear from the start that the marriage of Naim and Focal was based on mutual financial interest rather than affinity in their respective ideas about audio reproduction.  Certainly this would extend to the topic of active loudspeakers. I have never heard a pair of Focal speakers, but after a few months with the highly regarded Focal Utopia headphones, my reaction is "never the twain shall meet."

You may be correct, but Naim and Focal have clearly cooperated in the design and development of the Sopra range. Indeed it could be argued that Sopra speakers were aimed primarily at owners of Naim kit. But, as you say, the marriage would certainly have been based on mutual financial interest rather than some assumed uplift in profits from equipment synergies and mutual development activities.

Interestingly;

S20a = 0.925 x 0.2 x 0.27 = 0.05m3

606 = 0.95 x 0.266 x 0.33 = 0.08m3

707 = 1.05 x 0.298 x 0.37 = 0.116m3

808 = 1.115 x 0.275 x 0.37 = 0.113m3

i.e 707 has largest volume...

To cover a few points above:

If you have one amp already, T-606 and T-707 will need 2 more boxes (crossover and stereo amp),  not 3 more boxes.

Price will probably be in the 8 to 9k gbp range

You can't estimate the internal volume based on the external dimensions - the wall thickness of the Titan range is significantly greater compared to the Super range

If the T-606 continues the design of the other Titans it will be an isobaric mid-bass in a ported cabinet. Like the 707 the port will be downward firing via a sophisticated port shape. This could make it good for being close to a wall but its not a given

The tweeter is different to the S20a. Will find out more about the mid-bass tomorrow but even if it is the same driver as the S20a, isobaric loading will make it a very different beast. So not exactly a S20a in a frock.

In case some have missed this, Kudos still sells more affordable speakers. Just because they're making a top end range doesn't stop the more affordable models from existing. The 606 is probably likely to be the last Titan for now (although a standmount isobaric 505 has to have some appeal?). Perhaps they'll get to replacements for the 10s and 20s next then revisit the Xs. Perhaps those ranges will benefit from some of the learnings from the Titans and thereby improve the performance of the more affordable products.

I've only heard the 707 active so far, with SNAXO. The effect of going from passive to Exakt active with the S20a is huge and is likely to bring similar benefits to 606 and 707 as will SNAXO.

Three more boxes - a power amp, a crossover, and a power supply for said crossover. Three. 

Four if you had 300DRs

Hungryhalibut posted:

Three more boxes - a power amp, a crossover, and a power supply for said crossover. Three. 

Ah, yes, correct. 2 shelves though

Ah the joys of only having to add one more box to go active 

I'll be interested in your impressions Sunbeam GLS when you get to hear them. 

James

Though you wouldn't really want the snaxo and Hicap on the same shelf ideally. It's something I've pondered if we had a substantial win on the premium bonds!

Hungryhalibut posted:

Though you wouldn't really want the snaxo and Hicap on the same shelf ideally. It's something I've pondered if we had a substantial win on the premium bonds!

Why should the go on different shelves? The SNAXO BMR has a nice mechanism to avoid vibrations?

The snaxo works best away from power supplies, just like all Naim's unpowered boxes do.

Ardbeg10y posted:

Why should the go on different shelves? The SNAXO BMR has a nice mechanism to avoid vibrations?

It's the dreaded magnetrons.  They sneak out of Naim transformers and lurk in all the hidden corners of sensitive electronic circuits nearby.  The only solution is to expose them to the harsh glare of daylight, away from other black Naim boxes.

Foot tapper posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Why should the go on different shelves? The SNAXO BMR has a nice mechanism to avoid vibrations?

It's the dreaded magnetrons.  They sneak out of Naim transformers and lurk in all the hidden corners of sensitive electronic circuits nearby.  The only solution is to expose them to the harsh glare of daylight, away from other black Naim boxes.

I had no idea Naim had started making microwave ovens - no wonder they need to be kept away from other boxes :0

Hi Chris,

Those Naim R&D guys are way ahead of the rest of us.  Remember when the 4kVA toroidal transformers were just for "a research project?"  Then there's the SNAIC shaker; what must people have thought during its development?  Magnetrons are the new, must-have hifi technology, suitably constrained of course 

Anyway, back on topic, the T606 tweeter is evidently a mildly tweaked version of the SEAS Crescendo, so an incremental upgrade.  The mid-bass drivers appear remarkably similar to those on the S10A/S20A, except with a different doping/coating and smaller voice coil - 26mm versus 39mm in the S10A/20A.  However, there are 2 of them in classic isobaric loading configuration, so this should really help the bottom end.  Finally, the cabinet does look to be of a more complex and stiff construction, which will hopefully be a good thing, even if folks like Harbeth may have a different take on cabinet design philosophy.

Looking forward to hearing a pair, as I would have been mighty excited at auditioning a Naim/Kudos active system with a pair of NAP250DR power amps in it!  The T606 is just the right size for most UK living rooms.  It reminds me of when I eagerly anticipated the launch of the active Ovator S400 for the same reason.

Best regards, FT

Ardbeg10y posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Though you wouldn't really want the snaxo and Hicap on the same shelf ideally. It's something I've pondered if we had a substantial win on the premium bonds!

Why should the go on different shelves? The SNAXO BMR has a nice mechanism to avoid vibrations?

Although the SNAXO BMR is just for the Ovators. Standard SNAXO isn't floaty sadly. I'd get one if it was. Hint hint.

sunbeamgls posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Three more boxes - a power amp, a crossover, and a power supply for said crossover. Three. 

Ah, yes, correct. 2 shelves though

Or 3 if you used the Supercap DR instead of HiCapDR. Your SNAXO Burndy input would be crying out for it causing restless nights. 

elkman70 posted:

Four if you had 300DRs

In that case just go to the 500DR and save yourself the hassle

It would be very good to have a darn good room friendly passive mode speaker which can perform exemplarily with one solitary NAP250, 300, or 500.

The Titan 808 is about the best of passive options out there at present for a NAP500, but it's a bit big and very expensive, let's hope the Kudos 707 and 606 can satisfy us folk who simply crave a life without the faff of active multi boxes and cables....

naim_nymph posted:

The Titan 808 is about the best of passive options out there at present for a NAP500, but it's a bit big and very expensive, let's hope the Kudos 707 and 606 can satisfy us folk who simply crave a life without the faff of active multi boxes and cables....

 

However according to spec. sheet it's no bigger than S600

Regards

Roberto

Exactly Roberto.  The Ovator S600 visually dominated our fairly typical UK modern house living room.  

The Ovator S400 was a much more UK room friendly size, as is the Kudos S20.  High hopes here for the Titan 606.

I have both, ironically 400s are in a bigger room than 600s and nSat in a bigger one still.  However they blend all beautifully with the rest.

Regards

Roberto

Using NDS/555, 552/555, 500DR and SuperLumina, 606 and 707 sounding great in passive form at Munich.

The Titan tweeter is so much more controlled than that in the S10 and S20. Both are very musical speakers - it just flows. The T-606 does a fantastic job, but if you can't afford it or you don't ave the space, don't try the 707s...

The good news is - for all those who aren't able to go to Munich, I just heard that both T-707s and T-606s will be available to hear at a Kudos open day at Cymbiosis in early June.  The bad news is - I'll be on holiday (actually that's good news but I really, really want to hear them!).

I'm sure at least a few people here will attend so pics and impressions please...

Anyone got any 'in the flesh' pictures ? 

Here are the T-707 and T-606 stood next to each other. The 606 is, indeed, very similar in size to the Super 20, but it would appear to be a league higher in performance, from what I heard today, but then it is twice the price.  Mid-bass driver is very similar to the Super 20 but will have a longer stroke to cope with more power.  The tweeter is based on the SEAS beryllium chassis and motor but with the Cresecendo dome.

The 606 looks pretty elegant with the grille in place.

There will be a T-505 stand mount later - around the 7k gbp mark, also isobaric (ish).

System is NDS/555, 552/555 and 500DR.  Thankfully the HDX wasn't in use today...