GOTTEN

My pet hate in the mistaken use of the French word 'performant' in English to mean "of high performance" (which is it's French meaning).

The problem is that there is also an English word 'performant' which has the same derivation as 'informant'; that is, in English the word 'performant' means "one who performs".  It's also tends to be considered derogatory, and so it's more likely to be used when referring to circus performers or street entertainers.

I find it amusing when someone intends to praise something, and then uses a derogatory term to describe it.

Huge posted:

Mike-B posted:

Although the grammar expert/nerd I live with gets very excited over 'gotten' claiming that in correct english (in UK) the past tense of 'get' is 'got',  & believes that is the way its normally applied in UK,  she concedes 'gotten' it can be found in use in English documents dated before the americas became colonised.  (trans colonized)  

Yes, in English (as opposed to American English), 'gotten' is archaic.

Am I right in thinking another English word is now archaic. 'Labour' ?

I'll get my coat .................

Clive B posted:

Don't get me started on split infinitives! I fear I might be going to have an angry weekend.

Ah! to boldly split infinitives no man has split before!

Another thing to note, is that a preposition is not an appropriate word to end a sentence with.

Huge posted:

Another thing to note, is that a preposition is not an appropriate word to end a sentence with.

That is the sort of quibbling up with which I cannot put.

My loving family are descending into a habit of placing an unnecessary "at" at the the end of many sentences. "What time is the bus at?" "Where did you put the keys at?" They're all doing it. It drives me nuts. And don't get me started on the explosions of "likes" in our childrens' speech. Thankfully, that may be dying down a little; or perhaps I'm getting used to it.

Often come across " An Historical.." in newspaper journalism,  only makes sense if read with a strong cockney accent. Or am I missing something as I do struggle sometimes.

TOBYJUG posted:

Often come across " An Historical.." in newspaper journalism,  only makes sense if read with a strong cockney accent. Or am I missing something as I do struggle sometimes.

No, you're not. Here's what the BBC style guide says ('style' as in correct usage of language, rather than whether brown shoes are acceptable with a business suit...):

A/an

Pronunciation is the key. Use ‘an’ before any word or abbreviation beginning with a vowel sound, including words beginning with a silent ‘h’ (as far as we know there are only four of these: hour, honour, heir, honest and their derivatives). You use ‘a’ with consonant sounds (eg: unicorn), including words beginning with an ‘h’ which is pronounced (eg: hat, hotel).

Huge posted:

Clive B posted:

And the misuse of 'there', 'their' and 'they're'.

Grrr!

Not so bad if their there only mistakes they're.  

Then there's your and you're. I saw one today on the Forum somewhere - your welcome. Your welcome what?

I recently ended up in a discussion between Americans and some Englishmen how to write 'fulfilment'. The Americans won because their budget was bigger.

On my current project we got the 'word of the week' for a year or so. We agreed as software designers to include certain words in our designs. In one week, all designs started with the word 'hitherto'. We had great fun.

Another nice one was a certain Indian guy said 'I'll revert to you' (meaning I get back to you). An English guy said promptly 'I'd wish you could revert to me, that would be an enormous improvement'.

That's what I see as non native English speaker as getting close to your kind of (appreciated) humor (sorry, forgot the 'u'). Quite rude and insulting phrases. Brilliant!

Just try explaining to a German the difference between being hounded and being dogged!

I'm saying nothing 

Pev posted:

Of course I concur with "British" rather than "English"  English; I was responding in haste.

I completely get it. My preference is for the Inverness accent. (I've just looked at that sentence again asked myself if there is such a thing as an Inverness accent? Not sure. So I've decided that my preference is for English as it is spoken in Inverness).

intothevoid posted:

 

I'm saying nothing 

Pretty insulting towards China too, I think. Was this Steam software written in Tiawan perhaps? I bet the Chinese 'internet police' there have censored this out.  

rodwsmith posted:

The one that gets me is 'burglarised.'

Over here in Canada, we get our cars winterized in the fall. But in spring, no one talks about getting them summerized.

Pev posted:

If Americans want to develop their own dialect and spelling that's fine by me but don't mess  up English English!

I would expect variations from non UK posters but have zero tolerance for English people who can't be arsed to learn their own language properly. There seems to be a bit of a campaign starting to legitimise this - even on Radio 4!

Can't be ...what?

Hungryhalibut posted:

Huge posted:

Clive B posted:

And the misuse of 'there', 'their' and 'they're'.

Grrr!

Not so bad if their there only mistakes they're.  

Then there's your and you're. I saw one today on the Forum somewhere - your welcome. Your welcome what?

Clearly it's your welcome, as opposed to my welcome.

"Gotten" is not the past tense of the verb "get" in American English, it's the past participle. Much like "dreamed" versus "dreamt", so it demands a modifier or auxiliary verb such as a tense of "have". The modifier presents a stronger or more effective sense of time and possession. "I dreamed of such riches" versus "I had once dreamt of such riches". "I got the concert tickets" versus "I had already gotten the concert tickets". Sounds perfectly proper with more power to my American ears.

On the subject, I always find the British use of a "t" as opposed to a "ed" for past tenses of a verb quirky to my ears. "He smelt like a fish" versus "He smelled like a fish". Then again, most Americans would say "The dealer dealt the cards" versus "The dealer dealed the cards".

Horses for courses of course and the 40+ responses to this thread indicate to me how this forum is increasingly becoming more about digressive topics like politics, grammatics, and proper etiquette for modes of transportation than basic hi-fi and music.

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

Over here in Canada, we get our cars winterized in the fall. But in spring, no one talks about getting them summerized.

........  & thats another deviation from english-english,  we have winterised,  with an 'ess'.  And english Z is pronounced 'zed',  in N.A. its pronounced 'zee'.     We also have autumn,  not fall.     

"I had already gotten the concert tickets"
vs.
"I had already got the concert tickets"

Both are valid.  However, whereas the second form is more common in English, the first form is more common in American English.

On the other hand "I already had the concert tickets" is slightly different in meaning (less specific).

joerand posted: this forum is increasingly becoming more about digressive topics like politics, grammatics, and proper etiquette for modes of transportation than basic hi-fi and music.

Succinct differentiations and assimilations is hardly digressive.  Especially in regards to the basics of hifi and music appreciation.  

Huge posted:

"I had already gotten the concert tickets"
vs.
"I had already got the concert tickets"

Both are valid.  However, whereas the second form is more common in English, the first form is more common in American English.

On the other hand "I already had the concert tickets" is slightly different in meaning (less specific).

More common is the " I've got the tickets already ".  A mash up of both and all options.

Okay... so sometimes I jest about spelling and punctuation; but at the end of the day written word should be used to express ideas.  What is important is that what you write gets the idea across clearly but without excess waffle. 

I couldn't care less if people use got or gotten; badly use they're and their and there or put apostrophes in the wrong place so long as what they write is ultimately understandable. That doesn't mean punctuation isn't important - a long unpunctuated sentence without splitting into paragraphs is very difficult to read / understand; but its secondary to the message  

What does annoy me (and not suggesting it is happening here) is when people completely ignore the message and criticise the writer for missing an apostrophe or a capital letter. 

TOBYJUG posted:

Huge posted:

"I had already gotten the concert tickets"
vs.
"I had already got the concert tickets"

Both are valid.  However, whereas the second form is more common in English, the first form is more common in American English.

On the other hand "I already had the concert tickets" is slightly different in meaning (less specific).

More common is the " I've got the tickets already ".  A mash up of both and all options.

That doesn't mean the same thing though.  The first two refer to the action of getting the tickets in the past (past tense, perfect aspect), the other to the getting of the tickets with ongoing possession of the tickets (past tense, imperfect aspect).

Huge posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

Huge posted:

"I had already gotten the concert tickets"
vs.
"I had already got the concert tickets"

Both are valid.  However, whereas the second form is more common in English, the first form is more common in American English.

On the other hand "I already had the concert tickets" is slightly different in meaning (less specific).

More common is the " I've got the tickets already ".  A mash up of both and all options.

That doesn't mean the same thing though.  The first two refer to the action of getting the tickets (in the past), the other to the ongoing possession of the tickets.

Maybe even better to say, "I had already purchased/acquired/obtained [according to whether the act was actually performed by the subject of the sentence] the tickets".