NAIT XS 2 with Marantz CD6006 vs a used Naim CD player

Christopher_M posted:

DrMark posted:

After the CDP, look for a SN or SN-2, and you will really see more of what your ProAcs can do. Then you can add a HC later!

Reality check: Fella's just bought a Nait XS2.

Over time, not immediately - I have had the Nait XS (with and without a FC) and then the SN, and it was not even close. A bare SN1 blows the doors off a Nait-XS/2. And to be sure, the XS is a fine amp; but the SN exhibited way more grip, control, and bass response.  I have also had the same speakers as the OP, so I feel that I know a little bit about the components with which he is dealing.

The OP has to sort out his source first, which of course is why he posted here...and to which I responded earlier seconding others' suggestions.

hastings posted:

I am using a Hugo fed by a Marantz dvd player 600x (I'm CD only as well).  I use Chord interconnects.  Amp is the nait xs predecessor 122/150.  The Hugo is a much better all-rounder than the old cd5x, even with an entry level cd transport.  Price wise this is a better solution than the cd5xs, though the cost of interconnects may negate that advantage.  The Chord cables have been excellent and they do get better as you move up the range.  

To make sure I understand your recommendation is to not worry about the CD source (Marantz CD6006) but connect it to a DAC,  (HUGO) along with quality Chord cables and the quality of the music will improve vs upgrading the CD player?

Also one other question, has anyone gone with a NaimUniti 2 Integrated Network Player?  Since this has a DAC, Streaming and a CD player is this a possible solution?  I do know that they have discontinued this product but have seen some still around.

Once again I am very appreciative of everyone that has provided me food for thought. With all the advice I may avoid one or two potholes along the road to listening nirvana.

DrMark posted:

Christopher_M posted:

DrMark posted:

After the CDP, look for a SN or SN-2, and you will really see more of what your ProAcs can do. Then you can add a HC later!

Reality check: Fella's just bought a Nait XS2.

Over time, not immediately - I have had the Nait XS (with and without a FC) and then the SN, and it was not even close. A bare SN1 blows the doors off a Nait-XS/2. And to be sure, the XS is a fine amp; but the SN exhibited way more grip, control, and bass response.  I have also had the same speakers as the OP, so I feel that I know a little bit about the components with which he is dealing.

The OP has to sort out his source first, which of course is why he posted here...and to which I responded earlier seconding others' suggestions.

Yes, I would like to see a SN(2) in my future!  For the time being I will see what improvements I can make with the NAIT XS 2.

I am enjoying the Pro AC D2's and anything to improve the sound they already provide would bring on a wider smile to my face.

From reading through the various threads I can see that options to move up from the XS 2 are just about limitless.  So I will have to practice patience, and practice patience some more...... Time and money, and patience.......

seakayaker posted:

hastings posted:

I am using a Hugo fed by a Marantz dvd player 600x (I'm CD only as well).  I use Chord interconnects.  Amp is the nait xs predecessor 122/150.  The Hugo is a much better all-rounder than the old cd5x, even with an entry level cd transport.  Price wise this is a better solution than the cd5xs, though the cost of interconnects may negate that advantage.  The Chord cables have been excellent and they do get better as you move up the range.  

To make sure I understand your recommendation is to not worry about the CD source (Marantz CD6006) but connect it to a DAC,  (HUGO) along with quality Chord cables and the quality of the music will improve vs upgrading the CD player?

Also one other question, has anyone gone with a NaimUniti 2 Integrated Network Player?  Since this has a DAC, Streaming and a CD player is this a possible solution?  I do know that they have discontinued this product but have seen some still around.

I don't think you'll find a Uniti to be a step up from what you have now. It's great if you want a one-box solution, but I don't think you'll find it to be an improvement on what you have now. The suggestion of adding an external DAC might be worth considering if your CD player has a digital out. It may also be useful if you add a streaming source later. 

Some time ago I auditioned a Uniti 2 against an ND5 XS and NAIT XS 2....  The ND5 XS and NAIT XS 2 pair won hands down.  The Uniti would be a backward step.

Having heard a Marantz CD6006 (albeit with matching integrated amp) I believe that any of the Naim CD players will be an improvement, but the CD5x or CD5XS would be an ideal match.  If you can persuade yourself to go streaming the ND5 XS will also be a perfect fit.

The option of fitting a good DAC to the Marantz is also a very good option, but it won't get you as much of the Naim 'house sound' characteristics, in the same way as using a Naim source component will. 

Huge posted:

The option of fitting a good DAC to the Marantz is also a very good option, but it won't get you as much of the Naim 'house sound' characteristics, in the same way as using a Naim source component will. 

Personally, I'd get an ND5XS and use the 6006 as a CDT via the ND5XS digital input. Best of both worlds. 

spacey posted:

Huge posted:

The option of fitting a good DAC to the Marantz is also a very good option, but it won't get you as much of the Naim 'house sound' characteristics, in the same way as using a Naim source component will. 

Personally, I'd get an ND5XS and use the 6006 as a CDT via the ND5XS digital input. Best of both worlds. 

+1  I very much enjoy my XS2 and ND5XS combo. [Having said this the upgrade bug is teasing me...] Your Marantz might not be the best transport, but after some little time you might make a 100% switch to streaming anyway. 

Timo posted:

spacey posted:

Huge posted:

The option of fitting a good DAC to the Marantz is also a very good option, but it won't get you as much of the Naim 'house sound' characteristics, in the same way as using a Naim source component will. 

Personally, I'd get an ND5XS and use the 6006 as a CDT via the ND5XS digital input. Best of both worlds. 

+1  I very much enjoy my XS2 and ND5XS combo. [Having said this the upgrade bug is teasing me...] Your Marantz might not be the best transport, but after some little time you might make a 100% switch to streaming anyway. 

Actually, that's not a bad idea, although an external DAC such as NDAC or Hugo is considered my most to be a big upgrade on the internal DACs in the ND5XS and NDX, so possibly not the best use of funds purely in sound quality terms.  

Huge posted:

The option of fitting a good DAC to the Marantz is also a very good option, but it won't get you as much of the Naim 'house sound' characteristics, in the same way as using a Naim source component will. 

The transport on that Marantz CD player is pants. ( I have the CD 5005 and it uses the same transport as CD 6006 ) It's better to get a straight Naim player to get the Naim sound.

kuma posted:

Huge posted:

The option of fitting a good DAC to the Marantz is also a very good option, but it won't get you as much of the Naim 'house sound' characteristics, in the same way as using a Naim source component will. 

The transport on that Marantz CD player is pants. ( I have the CD 5005 and it uses the same transport as CD 6006 ) It's better to get a straight Naim player to get the Naim sound.

I agree with you regarding the transport on the Marantz. It is a noisy item and the plastic look and feel certainly does not work well along side the Nait XS 2 amp. I thought the music from the CD 6006 was excellent. 

..... last evening I dropped by the dealer and he provided me with a loaner, a used CD5i, and from the first CD I played (Dave Koz -Lucky Man) I noticed the difference, a wider sound stage in the presentation of the instruments, more clarity and detail. So right off the bat I knew that a change is coming....... 

CD5X is the VFM best bet, IMHO, if you like the loaner, and can find a 5X.

Nick

NickSeattle posted:

CD5X is the VFM best bet, IMHO, if you like the loaner, and can find a 5X.

I'm sure we all heard you the first time, Nick

SK, Did the loan cdp come with its Naim power lead and a grey DIN to DIN interconnect? Re: the latter, if so, did you use it? Naim prefer DINs to RCA phonos.

buying a CD will be a dead money IMHO - Most rewarding would be a ND5XS and maybe something like a Cyrus CDT, if the 6006 is particularly weak as one. This way if you want to keep spinning discs, when the laser dies simply replace the CDT and you have a rest already in place. CDs will stop being sold in the imminent future. Nothing stands in the way of technology.

spacey posted:

buying a CD will be a dead money IMHO - Most rewarding would be a ND5XS and maybe something like a Cyrus CDT, if the 6006 is particularly weak as one. This way if you want to keep spinning discs, when the laser dies simply replace the CDT and you have a rest already in place. CDs will stop being sold in the imminent future. Nothing stands in the way of technology.

I actually thought about buying a Cyrus CDT -- fairly cheap when bought used. But fellow forum members convinced me that spinning a CD every other moon wouldn't justify another box on the rack catching dust.... 

Christopher_M posted:

NickSeattle posted:

CD5X is the VFM best bet, IMHO, if you like the loaner, and can find a 5X.

I'm sure we all heard you the first time, Nick

SK, Did the loan cdp come with its Naim power lead and a grey DIN to DIN interconnect? Re: the latter, if so, did you use it? Naim prefer DINs to RCA phonos.

Thanks for the suggestion Nick, a CD5X would be the way to go, just not within the budget (at least looking at current pricing) at the moment. At this point incremental steps (improvement) may be the order of the day.

Christopher, I did use the power lead supplied but will have to check it out latter when I'm back home to double check that it is a Naim. The loaner did come with the grey Din to Din interconnect and I did use it vs. the Chord RCA cords. Thanks for pointing out the need to pay attention to the power lead, it is something I would not be thinking about.

I do appreciate everyone's experience and the time taken to provide feedback, comments, and opinions.  

spacey posted:

buying a CD will be a dead money IMHO - Most rewarding would be a ND5XS and maybe something like a Cyrus CDT, if the 6006 is particularly weak as one. This way if you want to keep spinning discs, when the laser dies simply replace the CDT and you have a rest already in place. CDs will stop being sold in the imminent future. Nothing stands in the way of technology.

The ND5XS is definitely something I would like to be able to add in the future. My first goal was to establish a 'quality' basic system with a integrated amplifier and a CD player to take advantage of my CD library.

I have a little experience with streaming through Vifa speakers from my iPhone and PC and then using a Mu-So to play music via blu-tooth from my iPhone, and wireless for internet radio and playing music via iTunes from my iMac desktop. I have since sold off my Vifa speakers and then traded in my Mu-So when I upgraded my speakers to the Pro Ac Response D2 speakers. Adding streaming back in to the system is in the grand plan but I am old school and still like CD's. If I still had all my Vinyl records from years ago I would have put a turntable in as well. Years of traveling and relocating around the country for work saw the album collection dissipate/disappear over time. 

I do love hi-tech and all the wonderful things it provides.

I also love low tech, like reading a book, or just dropping a CD in the player. 

Thanks for your suggestion and comments, they are welcome and appreciated.

Thanks everyone for your comments and contributions.

My system, for the time being will consist of a CD5si, Nait XS 2, Chord Clearway cables, Pro Ac Response D2.

One other interim step I am entertaining is looking to upgrade the Chord cables to something like the Odyssey or Epic.  Have any of you tried these speaker cables?  ......or other recommendations?

For now I plan to settle in and listen to music. In the fall/winter months I will most likely pursue a streaming solution as well.  In the meantime I will continue to review the comments and advice on this forum. I have learned quite a bit over the past week or so.

One last question, has anyone run the Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cables between a Nait XS 2 and Pro Ac Response D2 speakers?    .....or have used them at all?

..... and will they work with a 3 meter length, or does it have to be longer to meet Naim requirements of at least 3.5 meters?

 Thanks, your feedback and comments are welcome.

IF the OP has a "plan to add streaming at some point in time" I suggest do it now, as the CD player will quickly be redundant. If you have a computer and can post on a Forum you can stream. Easy.

cdboy posted:

IF the OP has a "plan to add streaming at some point in time" I suggest do it now, as the CD player will quickly be redundant. If you have a computer and can post on a Forum you can stream. Easy.

.....been there     ......done that......     in the future, i'll do that again.

Right now getting basic system squared away.  ......so back to my last question.

"One last question, has anyone run the Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cables between a Nait XS 2 and Pro Ac Response D2 speakers?    .....or have used them at all?

..... and will they work with a 3 meter length, or does it have to be longer to meet Naim requirements of at least 3.5 meters?

 Thanks, your feedback and comments are welcome."

seakayaker posted:

cdboy posted:

IF the OP has a "plan to add streaming at some point in time" I suggest do it now, as the CD player will quickly be redundant. If you have a computer and can post on a Forum you can stream. Easy.

.....been there     ......done that......     in the future, i'll do that again.

Right now getting basic system squared away.  ......so back to my last question.

 

"One last question, has anyone run the Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cables between a Nait XS 2 and Pro Ac Response D2 speakers?    .....or have used them at all?

..... and will they work with a 3 meter length, or does it have to be longer to meet Naim requirements of at least 3.5 meters?

 Thanks, your feedback and comments are welcome."

Yes

The 3mtr Odyssey is fine with XS

And yes, a good cd player is much better sounding than computer streaming imo, I like to have a physical medie such as vinyl and silver discs, theres nothing like having a real album provided you have the space for it

I would only use a computer for music replay, in case I couldnt find that particular piece of music elsewhere

Vinyl is my preferred

SK, I know you are asking about speaker wires (where I don't have an answer) but which rack do you have?

seakayaker posted:

One last question, has anyone run the Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cables between a Nait XS 2 and Pro Ac Response D2 speakers?    .....or have used them at all?

When I had the original Nait XS I home demo'd between NACA5 and Chord Odyssey 2. I found the Chord refined and polite, with bouncier bass and sweeter, more rolled-off highs. The NACA5 by comparison was more immediate and grittier, with meatier bass and splashier highs. I found the NACA5 closer to the music; better musicality. Both are good cables for what they do, just depends on what pleases your ears. The Chord is a clear winner for bendability, but that wasn't a factor for me.

I was using Totem speakers and having had Proacs home, I wouldn't say the two brands are terribly dissimilar in their overall sonic presentation.

seakayaker posted: 

"One last question, has anyone run the Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cables between a Nait XS 2 and Pro Ac Response D2 speakers?    .....or have used them at all?

..... and will they work with a 3 meter length, or does it have to be longer to meet Naim requirements of at least 3.5 meters?

I use Odyssey with Supernait.    It replaced Linn K20 way back in 2009,  I tried NACA5 & although I liked it I had to reject it because of its stiffness that caused problems with my particular installation.     Looking at some notes I made at the time,  Odyssey had better top end detail, mid range & bass, overall brighter compared to a slight dullness with K20. 

The 3.5m required by Naim is specific to NACA5 which has 1uH per meter inductance,  so what they are really saying is the amp output stage needs a minimum of 3.5uH.    Chord don't publish these spec's but I have measured mine & found 0.6uH/m & 62pF/m (capacitance)  (NB: these are my numbers,  not Chords)   So you need 5.9m per side to meet the 3.5uH requirement.  

Now lets get back to real world,  Naim integrated amps are not that fussy over speaker cables,  best avoid very high capacitance/low inductance woven/litz type cables,  but twisted pair types like Odyssey are just fine.     I use 5m per side = 3uH  & my Supernait is as happy as can be.

I used Chord Odyssey for a while. It made the sound very neat and organised but ultimately I found it a bit boring and uninvolving to listen to. Naim's NacA5 is always a sensible choice with a Naim amp, otherwise Tellurium Q black is very good and is easier to use.