Atc owners

I would sort out your amplification first. You may find that you get a lot more of what you either do, or do not want with a better amp, and that includes the preamp too.

I think that's been said to the OP before. There is no point trying speakers at random and then changing the electronics. 

I've used both the scm19 mk1 and the latest scm40. ATCs generally need lots of power to drive them well due to their sealed box design. For the 19, you will need a 250 and the 40 a 500 to make most of it.

I have tried SN2 twice but just couldn't get along with it. Just too forward and exacerbated the bright treble on the motive 2's which I am trying to resolve. I preferred the 202/200 presentation but again upper frequencies remained unresolved. This is as much as I can afford amplification wise unless I go 272/200. Will I still be left with the same problems with my current speakers?

 Also I will have to upgrade in stages over the next 12 - 18 months. If the upper frequencies remain problematic after spending on amplification I think this will remain a constant source of frustration. 

Upgrading in stages is the best way in my view, then you gain a proper understanding of what each box is contributing. I'd say your NDAC is a good enough source to justify upgrading the downstream components, but I would start with the preamp, then power amp, then speakers. Do it the other way around and you are entering mullet territory until the process is complete.

Laxton Yeo posted:

I've used both the scm19 mk1 and the latest scm40. ATCs generally need lots of power to drive them well due to their sealed box design. For the 19, you will need a 250 and the 40 a 500 to make most of it.

The later mk2 (curved case /new crossover/tweeter) versions have far better controlled impedance dips and so can use more modest power amps, 75 Watt RMS into 8 ohms should be fine. However I found the NaitXS driving a pair of 19 Mk2 s was just on the limit and resulted in a slightly soft slow bass that otherwise tightens with more power

stuart posted:

I have tried SN2 twice but just couldn't get along with it. Just too forward and exacerbated the bright treble on the motive 2's which I am trying to resolve. I preferred the 202/200 presentation but again upper frequencies remained unresolved. This is as much as I can afford amplification wise unless I go 272/200. Will I still be left with the same problems with my current speakers?

I'm thinking maybe the 152/155's are softening the Neat Motives & thats what you have become used to.   I've heard Motive's a few times & I've never found treble to be that bright.   

I have the SCM 11s which I chose because I have a small room but wanted bass without boom. Of all the speakers I audiotioned, which included PMC Twenty 5/21 and 5/23 ( both of which had a hardness in the treble that I couldn't get on with), Proac Tablette 10 (very nice but bass not deep enough), Harbeth P3esr (too warm and really didn't like being close to the back wall) Monitor Audio platinum 100s (timing seemed to not be what I like about Naim, seemed to suck the PRaT and replace with a hi fi presentation), and Kudos X2 (fun but sounded a little crude).

 I have a NAP 250 DR which seems ideal for SCM 11s. The bass goes remarkably deep as I hear it in my room but not the least bit boomy - I'm a bass player and this is important to me.  The overall balance is incredibly balanced with a super sweet treble (I so wanted to like the PMCs for their looks but their treble just grated on me).  The SMCs are not one of those "wow, look at me" speakers but strike a perfect balance between detail, musicality and sheer listen ability, and they are by far the quickest and best timing of the speakers that I auditioned.

Hi,

Not an answer to your quest but I have heard a SN2 driving Neat Motive SX2 at my dealer recently and too bright sounding is certainly not how would describe this pairing. Not in the slightest.

I would check the quality of soldering on your speaker cable terminations before doing anything else?

Not much to add from me about the specifics of ATC SCM11/19/40 beyond what's already been said. We listened to a lot of different speaker brands including some at ~ twice the price but preferred the ATC SCM19. We didn't audition the SCM11 so I have no opinion on that but everything read convinced me that the SCM19 was preferable for our needs.

Yes, the ATC are very revealing but I like it that way and don't personally find them unlistenable and harsh/bright. YMMV of course!

Stuart , I went from Neat Motive 2s to PMC 20/23s and now ATC 19s . A similar route to the one you're looking at , all good speakers but the ATCs far superior IMO , they definitely benefit from the 250DR though . 

Thanks for all the replies some great advice as always. I'm not sure how to check the soldering on speaker cables. Is there anything I should look for on particular

Stephen Tate posted:

Hi,

Not an answer to your quest but I have heard a SN2 driving Neat Motive SX2 at my dealer recently and too bright sounding is certainly not how would describe this pairing. Not in the slightest.

I would check the quality of soldering on your speaker cable terminations before doing anything else?

 

 

Thanks for all the replies some great advice as always. I'm not sure how to check the soldering on speaker cables. Is there anything I should look for on particular? I have considered tellurium q black as an alternative which may help. 

alanbass1 posted:

I have the SCM 11s which I chose because I have a small room but wanted bass without boom. Of all the speakers I audiotioned, which included PMC Twenty 5/21 and 5/23 ( both of which had a hardness in the treble that I couldn't get on with), Proac Tablette 10 (very nice but bass not deep enough), Harbeth P3esr (too warm and really didn't like being close to the back wall) Monitor Audio platinum 100s (timing seemed to not be what I like about Naim, seemed to suck the PRaT and replace with a hi fi presentation), and Kudos X2 (fun but sounded a little crude).

 I have a NAP 250 DR which seems ideal for SCM 11s. The bass goes remarkably deep as I hear it in my room but not the least bit boomy - I'm a bass player and this is important to me.  The overall balance is incredibly balanced with a super sweet treble (I so wanted to like the PMCs for their looks but their treble just grated on me).  The SMCs are not one of those "wow, look at me" speakers but strike a perfect balance between detail, musicality and sheer listen ability, and they are by far the quickest and best timing of the speakers that I auditioned.

Thanks Alan that gives a great description. Can I ask how large your room is? It is good to know as a bass player you hear deep tuneful bass and don't miss any lower frequencies. I play guitar and we have a great bass player, good bass pulls everything together and propels the tune. 

My main system is in a 12' x 8' room. I could have the system in my main space living room but would be forever competing with the family so I have a Unity 2 in there ��

If I had the system in a larger room I would probably have gone for the 19s.

stuart posted:

I have tried SN2 twice but just couldn't get along with it. Just too forward and exacerbated the bright treble .... I preferred the 202/200 presentation but again upper frequencies remained unresolved. This is as much as I can afford amplification wise unless I go 272/200. Will I still be left with the same problems with my current speakers? If the upper frequencies remain problematic after spending on amplification I think this will remain a constant source of frustration. 

I had similar frustrations with the SN2. Exhausted room treatment and brought home numerous speaker for demo. Finally changed to non-Naim amplification and viola!  Upper frequency coherence and improved musicality. You won't hear it often here, but I'm suggesting that Naim amplification isn't for everyone. Maybe you'll find resolution trying a different brand. 

stuart posted:

Thanks for all the replies some great advice as always. I'm not sure how to check the soldering on speaker cables. Is there anything I should look for on particular

stuart posted:

I have tried SN2 twice but just couldn't get along with it. Just too forward and exacerbated the bright treble on the motive 2's which I am trying to resolve. I preferred the 202/200 presentation but again upper frequencies remained unresolved. This is as much as I can afford amplification wise unless I go 272/200. Will I still be left with the same problems with my current speakers?

 Also I will have to upgrade in stages over the next 12 - 18 months. If the upper frequencies remain problematic after spending on amplification I think this will remain a constant source of frustration. 

My Motive 2s improved as i went up the naim amp chain Nait 5i > 152/155 > SN2.  They sounded great with the SN2 but at that point they became the weak link in the system.  It's worth pointing out that, while I never found the treble on the Motive 2s overly bright, it also wasn't the most refined. 

If PMC 20.23 have too much bass energy for your room then ATC SCM19 or better still SCM19A might be a good fit. I previously owned 20.23 and much prefer my SCM19A speakers in my room, they do generate less bass energy than 20.23 but don't worry, they generate enough, it's better quality bass, and more than you would think looking at the specs alone.

I find ATC SCM19A more forgiving than PMC 20.23 so again no worries there.

King Size posted:

stuart posted:

I have tried SN2 twice but just couldn't get along with it. Just too forward and exacerbated the bright treble on the motive 2's which I am trying to resolve. I preferred the 202/200 presentation but again upper frequencies remained unresolved. This is as much as I can afford amplification wise unless I go 272/200. Will I still be left with the same problems with my current speakers?

 Also I will have to upgrade in stages over the next 12 - 18 months. If the upper frequencies remain problematic after spending on amplification I think this will remain a constant source of frustration. 

My Motive 2s improved as i went up the naim amp chain Nait 5i > 152/155 > SN2.  They sounded great with the SN2 but at that point they became the weak link in the system.  It's worth pointing out that, while I never found the treble on the Motive 2s overly bright, it also wasn't the most refined. 

King Size, you are right about the treble refinement, maybe I wasn't describing this adequately. There are, however some rock tracks I listen too where guitar solos are just too grating and I have to turn the volume down. I haven't experienced this with the motive xs or pmc 20/23. 

Examples that people will know are the solos on Pink Floyd's Time and Money, they sound grainy and coarse on the motive 2's, I'm sure not at all how they should sound. 

It is interesting to hear different philosophies with regards to upgrading. Some feel matching speakers to the room first, others suggest pushing the amplification first. My current amp set with fcxs cost me just under £3k. I know it' far from the best but certainly not bad. If I am considering spending £1.2-2.1k on speakers is this really too unbalanced. I know these things can't really be measured in costings alone and power to drive atcs is an issue but the plan is to upgrade amps over time. Will the 11's or 19's sound that bad as a temporary measure. I guess it may be similar to purchasing naim speakers, are they much better when driven actively but many are happy with passive set ups.?

BTW these motive sx2 's I have on demo are starting to sound very good. 

Halloween Man posted:

If PMC 20.23 have too much bass energy for your room then ATC SCM19 or better still SCM19A might be a good fit. I previously owned 20.23 and much prefer my SCM19A speakers in my room, they do generate less bass energy than 20.23 but don't worry, they generate enough, it's better quality bass, and more than you would think looking at the specs alone.

I find ATC SCM19A more forgiving than PMC 20.23 so again no worries there.

Thanks Halloween Man

I have considered the 19a's with n272 as source. They are pretty large and I did worry about the bass output and domestic acceptance. I was also unsure about connecting to the 272. I was under the impression they required or were better with balanced xlr. Does the 272 allow for this. 

The 272 doesn't have balanced outputs, but the ATCs don't need it. 

HH is right ..... whilst the Active ATC inputs are XLR but they are not balanced... I have also read (elsewhere) that SE feed works best if there is a choice

I'm using N272 into ATC SCM40A

The 272 and 40A received a fantastic review from one of the comics, which the OP may find worthwhile reading. It may be linked from the Naim website. If I didn't have my SL2s I'd think very carefully about the 19A and 40A: active without all the boxes and spaghetti. It's a great solution. 

As above, I use custom wired RCA to XLR, see my profile page, the custom Chord Shawline works brilliantly. SCM19A with N272 would make fine bedfellows. I'm partnering mine currently with DAC V1 whilst awaiting the imminent Hugo 2.

Personally, I think the design of SCM19A is really nice, don't have to worry about partnering stands and amps, and the footprint not too large at all (SCM19A has same footprint as SCM19)

As said previously, if 20.23 had too much bass then SCM19A are one step down so should be a good fit. It takes a good few weeks of constant playback for the speakers to break in and the bass to fully reveal itself.

Hungryhalibut posted:

The 272 and 40A received a fantastic review from one of the comics, which the OP may find worthwhile reading. It may be linked from the Naim website. If I didn't have my SL2s I'd think very carefully about the 19A and 40A: active without all the boxes and spaghetti. It's a great solution. 

100% on the active ATC's.   I have ear-marked one or other of the 19A or 40A for after my next house move,  obviously final decision will not be until we find the house & know the room size.     It might include whatever new platform Naim has as & when it happens,  maybe a new version of 272,  but at moment corporate approval is signed off for 282 to add to the NDX.