Uniti2 upgrade path

"I'd like to get a bit more out of my current speakers but"...

haven't actually said what they are!

Yes, it would be good to know what speakers you are using. Even if they are easy to drive, the addition of a NAP will improve things.

My Uniti 2 was a little asthmatic when driving my Monitor Audio GX 300s and the addition of a NAP 200 helped somewhat. I then sold the Uniti2 and bought a NDX and NAC 202 and the change was huge. It is difficult to say if the move to a separate streamer or the move to a separate pre amp was mostly responsible for the improvement. I suspect they both played a significant role here.

The reason for the explanation is that my experience implies the Uniti2's pre amp section has it's limitations. Go with the addition of the 250 if you wish but this would make most sense if it were a stepping stone to separates or if the Uniti 2 were to be replaced by a 272 in time.

If this is the plan then I would go for a 250.2 (or a 200) rather than an olive 250.

I'm sure a 250 will give a very nice uplift to the performance of your Uniti, as long as it's in good condition. Before you buy one, try to find out about its history, and weather it's ever been serviced. If not, you will need to budger for this if you want an old amp to sound at it's best.

If this is a stepping stone towards a separates system, try to figure out what your endgame system might be, so that you have something to work towards, otherwise you might end up making very expensive mistakes along the way.

Judging by your comments about using CD as a fallback, it sounds like you should look into improving your network too. 

I'm not convinced by this addition of an olive NAP 250 to a modern-era Uniti. Nothing wrong with both, but it somehow potentially limits the OP's future upgrade path. I would personally search for a current model.

I was in the same position as the OP. I added a used 7 year old NAP200 to the U2, then traded the U2 for a N272 and ran it with the 200 for a while. I then traded the 200 for a 250DR which is the natural partner for the 272.

I'd counsel against adding an olive 250 to the U2. I suspect you'd inevitably find yourself moving it on fairly quickly for a classic 200, 250.2 or better still a 250DR particularly if you decide to go down the 272 route.  Fine if that's the considered plan and you don't lose money on it but probably better to future proof the evolution of your system as others have recommended.

Adam Zielinski posted:

I'm not convinced by this addition of an olive NAP 250 to a modern-era Uniti. Nothing wrong with both, but it somehow potentially limits the OP's future upgrade path. I would personally search for a current model.

Nice idea, but a current model 250 might easily cost 3 times as much as an old one. I'm not sure that's a good use of funds - if you have them - with a Uniti.

SamBeOne posted:

Hi, I'm considering adding an old NAP250 olive onto my Uniti2.  Has anyone done this, and if so does it add much to the SQ?  They're both 70W's, so what type of a difference could I expect to get, if any.  Also does anyone have any views on whether the pre amp side of the Uniti2 is good enough to warrant a 250?  I'd like to get a bit more out of my current speakers but don't have the room for lots and lots of boxes.  I primarily play off my NAS as well as Spotify.  Don't use the CD much, but it's handy for when our internet connection is playing up and/or the NAS is playing up (both happen).

My second system has a SuperUniti used with a 1986 vintage 250 which was serviced by Naim 4 or 5 years ago. It works a treat driving my 1993 Shahinian Arc's. These speakers can be a difficult load and I found the SU alone never properly brought them to life. The addition of the 250 saw to that nicely, so my experience is all positive and supportive of your plan Sam. Whether a more recent vintage 250 would do an even better job I cannot answer.

Kevin

Depending on speakers you have and whether or not you aspire to a separates system I would throw out the option of keeping the U2 as is. I have recently upgraded from a U2 to a 272/XPS dr/250 dr system and I can say without a doubt the U2 is a great piece of kit. Now if you just have the itch to upgrade then go ahead and add the 250.  That said if you do not have a Power line in your U2 I would recommend adding one. I'm not saying it's worth what msrp is but if you can buy a nicely priced second hand PL then I do believe it's worth it. Sound is not night and day different but a nice little increase in SQ. 

Thank you all for your comments and advice.  I have two sets of  speakers, which I'm also trying ot decide on which to keep.  The original set are Castle Howard S3's, a 90 db load.  Quite a warm sounding speaker.  I like these and they match well with the U2, although I think I could get more out of them.  The other pair, a much more expensive local Australian speaker are Lenehan ML3's.  These are an 88db load, so theoretically not a super heavy load but they have been designed to be capable of handling very large currents. Whilst they are purported to run very well with tubes, I'm not a fan of the heat and electricity consumption of tubes.  The ML3's are a very accurate speaker and I feel I'm not getting enough mid range smoothness out of them with the U2. 

Regarding my endpoint.  I don't aspire to, nor do I have room for lots of separates.  Two full size boxes is really all we've got room to accomodate.  There's the opportunity to get a good condition NAC72 and Olive 250.  If I got these and sold the U2, then I'd only have funds and space to put in a basic non Naim streaming/DAC device such as an Auralic Mini at the moment with a goal of ending up with a higher end DAC in future - not necessarily of a Naim band.  So I'd be compromising on Naim's awesome app and Rovi functionality, and possibly losing out on DAC quality in the short term - but I don't know.  This then becomes a question of whether older high end Naim gear is substantially superior to the newer U2 technology.

I think the advice to sort out my network, so I don't need a CD player is good, and I'll look at that.  I think my NAS is tired.

SamBeOne posted:

Thank you all for your comments and advice.  I have two sets of  speakers, which I'm also trying ot decide on which to keep.  The original set are Castle Howard S3's, a 90 db load.  Quite a warm sounding speaker.  I like these and they match well with the U2, although I think I could get more out of them.  The other pair, a much more expensive local Australian speaker are Lenehan ML3's.  These are an 88db load, so theoretically not a super heavy load but they have been designed to be capable of handling very large currents. Whilst they are purported to run very well with tubes, I'm not a fan of the heat and electricity consumption of tubes.  The ML3's are a very accurate speaker and I feel I'm not getting enough mid range smoothness out of them with the U2. 

Regarding my endpoint.  I don't aspire to, nor do I have room for lots of separates.  Two full size boxes is really all we've got room to accomodate.  There's the opportunity to get a good condition NAC72 and Olive 250.  If I got these and sold the U2, then I'd only have funds and space to put in a basic non Naim streaming/DAC device such as an Auralic Mini at the moment with a goal of ending up with a higher end DAC in future - not necessarily of a Naim band.  So I'd be compromising on Naim's awesome app and Rovi functionality, and possibly losing out on DAC quality in the short term - but I don't know.  This then becomes a question of whether older high end Naim gear is substantially superior to the newer U2 technology.

I think the advice to sort out my network, so I don't need a CD player is good, and I'll look at that.  I think my NAS is tired.

O also had an Auralic Aries Mini forces while too. I ran it into my U2 for a. It just to compare. The AAM is a very nice piece as well. It was on par with the streaming section of the U2. I thought both were very close to each other. The U2 may have been a bit smoother sounding but that could also have been the way I had the DAC of the AAM set, dynamic. The Auralic app was also very nice too. Something to think about for sure. 

That's a great piece of intel.  Thanks Spurrier Sucks.  Also, when you said " have recently upgraded from a U2 to a 272/XPS dr/250 dr system and I can say without a doubt the U2 is a great piece of kit."  Does this mean to say that you didn't notice a huge change, in that the U2 was comparable and the upgrade was more about satisfying an upgrade itch?  Or am I misinterpreting? 

SamBeOne posted:

That's a great piece of intel.  Thanks Spurrier Sucks.  Also, when you said " have recently upgraded from a U2 to a 272/XPS dr/250 dr system and I can say without a doubt the U2 is a great piece of kit."  Does this mean to say that you didn't notice a huge change, in that the U2 was comparable and the upgrade was more about satisfying an upgrade itch?  Or am I misinterpreting? 

There is a SQ improvement but I don't think the price is equivalent to the SQ increase. The itch to upgrade got the best of me and I'm very happy I did. I will not be going back to the U2. With that said I can really appreciate now what the U2 has to offer. It's a very nice unit that makes listening to music very enjoyable. If if were not for having the urge to upgrade  and the desire to have  "better" equipment I woukd have been very happy with the U2. I did keep it for 2 years which is a long time compared to other boxes I've had in the past. I'm hoping the recent upgrade will keep me satisfied for 5 years or so before I start obsessing about upgrades again. So far so good. I've really been enjoying the music lately instead of worrying about different electronics and speakers. That's what it's all about or should be any way. 

I would add a Nap 200 first. They can be found under GBP 1000 in very good condition - so no service required for the next ~5 years. Then trade the Uniti for a n272. This n272 should set you back for about GBP 1500 (considering the trade-in of the Uniti).

I have a pair of BW CM1's which are rated 84db. My Nap 200 drives them well. I'm not too sure about these sensitivity ratings though.

SamBeOne posted:

Thank you all for your comments and advice.  I have two sets of  speakers, which I'm also trying ot decide on which to keep.  The original set are Castle Howard S3's, a 90 db load.  Quite a warm sounding speaker.  I like these and they match well with the U2, although I think I could get more out of them.  The other pair, a much more expensive local Australian speaker are Lenehan ML3's.  These are an 88db load, so theoretically not a super heavy load but they have been designed to be capable of handling very large currents. Whilst they are purported to run very well with tubes, I'm not a fan of the heat and electricity consumption of tubes.  The ML3's are a very accurate speaker and I feel I'm not getting enough mid range smoothness out of them with the U2. 

Regarding my endpoint.  I don't aspire to, nor do I have room for lots of separates.  Two full size boxes is really all we've got room to accomodate.  There's the opportunity to get a good condition NAC72 and Olive 250.  If I got these and sold the U2, then I'd only have funds and space to put in a basic non Naim streaming/DAC device such as an Auralic Mini at the moment with a goal of ending up with a higher end DAC in future - not necessarily of a Naim band.  So I'd be compromising on Naim's awesome app and Rovi functionality, and possibly losing out on DAC quality in the short term - but I don't know.  This then becomes a question of whether older high end Naim gear is substantially superior to the newer U2 technology.

I think the advice to sort out my network, so I don't need a CD player is good, and I'll look at that.  I think my NAS is tired.

Firstly the idea that the sensitivity of a speaker is related to how difficult a load they are for an amp is something of a myth.

The difficulty of the load is related to the complex impedance curve (impedance and phase angle), not sensitivity.  In fact higher sensitivity speakers are slightly more likely to be a difficult load due to other engineering compromises necessary to get the higher sensitivity.

If you are limited for space then the NAC-N 272 + NAP 250DR (or NAP 200 for that matter) is a superb 2 box system.
Another option would be to wait for a Uniti Nova, those who've heard it say it's exceptionally impressive for a one box device.

Also, if you're limited for space, then sorting the network and putting in a more reliable NAS is a good approach as then you can put all your CDs away into storage and claiming beck even more space.   There are plenty of good NAS systems to choose from, but Synology and QNAP seem to give good service for many users on here.

At a pinch you'll still be able to play a CD by connecting your DVD or Blue Ray player via an optical cable.

SamBeOne posted:

Regarding my endpoint.  I don't aspire to, nor do I have room for lots of separates.  Two full size boxes is really all we've got room to accomodate.  There's the opportunity to get a good condition NAC72 and Olive 250.  If I got these and sold the U2, then I'd only have funds and space to put in a basic non Naim streaming/DAC device such as an Auralic Mini at the moment with a goal of ending up with a higher end DAC in future - not necessarily of a Naim band.  So I'd be compromising on Naim's awesome app and Rovi functionality, and possibly losing out on DAC quality in the short term - but I don't know.  This then becomes a question of whether older high end Naim gear is substantially superior to the newer U2 technology.

There are a number of good 2-box Naim streaming systems you could consider. Depending on your budget, and availability on the used market, you could consider 172/200, 272/250 or NDX/Supernait. My personal preference would be for the NDX/Supernait, but acquiring a 250 now would not fit in with that, which is the sort of boring practical consideration I was referring to when I mentioned having and endpoint in mind.

72/250 would be a nice amp, but bear in mind that you will need a power supply (Hicap) so it is already a 3 box amp without the source. If a 200 is good enough to drive your speakers, it can, unlike the 250, also power the preamp, so this might also be an option to consider.

Huge, that's an interesting analysis of difficult speaker loads and impedance curves.  That makes sense and explains quite a bit.  I'm actually using a QNap, which has been really good, but in the last 6 months its slowed right down and doesn't render the pages on the iPad very quickly.  So it might be getting ready for replacement.

Chrissu, Ardbeg10Y, and Huge,  love to be able to jump into some of the suggestions that are being provided and get a 200 or 250 now and end up with a N272 will have to consider this further, but funds are likely to be an issue and we don't have much of a second hand Naim market in Australia.  Not sure I've seen 200's on the second hand market.  Taking this advice would mean doing nothing now, and saving my coin.

If I jumped in and just went for a change for changes sake now, then the 72/250 I'm considering also comes with a Non-Naim "XPS", which isn't too big and could be hidden I was thinking.  This option would, sadly, lose me a lot of the interconnectivity to TV and DVD that the U2 enables.  It is a very compact and accomplished device.  

Can you explain to me what needs to power what?  My background has been that each component plugs into the wall and you connect components with interconnects.  I've never entered the world of seperate power supplies for different equipment, or a power amp powering the pre-amp.  So do some Naim power amps act as the external power supply to the pre-amp and others don't?  

Also, does Naim's own interconnection approach with their own impedences mean that connecting other brands streaming/DAC's is doomed to sound sub par, or is this a misscoception? 

Thanks for patience.

SamBeOne posted:

 

If I jumped in and just went for a change for changes sake now, then the 72/250 I'm considering also comes with a Non-Naim "XPS", which isn't too big and could be hidden I was thinking.  This option would, sadly, lose me a lot of the interconnectivity to TV and DVD that the U2 enables.  It is a very compact and accomplished device.  

 

Whilst the discussions of non-Naim power supplies are banned on this forum, I hope the moderators let my reply through:

Having experimented with non-Naim power supplies as well as orginal Naim ones I've gathered some experience along the way. If I knew then what I know now, I would have never, ever bothered with the non-Naim alternatives. A waste of time, energy and ultimately some money. Suffice to say - they are all gone now, being replaced with Naim PSUs. And the Naim magic is back

The 250 and above cannot supply power to the preamp, so a Hicap or other PSU is required. The 200 and most other lesser power ams can power a preamp, but the external PSU can still be used as an optional upgrade. 

Note that the 172 can only use its own internal PSU. The 272 likewise, or this can be upgraded, but with an XPS, not a Hicap. 

Thanks Chrissu.  That helps make sense of it all.

Good advice Adam, I'll take it.  Think I'll mull all this over for a bit and either attach 250 to the U2 or hold on for a few more years.  Sounds like the second hand deal I was looking at won't be good for me.  I've also seen posts elsewhere now that suggest the NAC72 is not super good with digital music - which is my sole source.  But rather a 52 or 272 would be a far better choice - preferably the latter.  

I think as an ultimate 2-box system, focused on streaming 272 + NAP would be hard to beat. If you accept this is as a proverbial end-game, then step-by-step upgrades (first NAP and later 272) become quite clear.

Regardless of the path you choose - enjoy the music