NAP135 vs NAP 500 vs NAP500DR

Have the 135s serviced and keep them. Use the 10/20K you save to go travelling. Experiences are better than stuff. Is the 500 better than the 135, yes but after a few months you'll get used to it and probably wont listen any more often are get any more enjoyment from your system than you're  getting already.

Naim2 posted:

Hi ,

Contemplating an upgrade from NAP135 to NAP500 or NAP500DR.

How are the amps compared to each other? What improvements should we get going from NAP135 to NAP500 or NAP500DR?

Preamp will be NAC52 for the time being.

Looking forward for your comments and experiences.

David

 

 

 

i am using a NAC52 for now into 2x500DR active. I didn't think this would work at all as I thought the "balance" was wrong in terms of "source first".

how wrong I was!!! if you can afford the NAP500-DR without too much pain, I would recommend it very highly. not sure though whether the fact that I am running them active is a significant factor here, so you will need to listen for yourself.

enjoy

ken

Jonn posted:

Have the 135s serviced and keep them. Use the 10/20K you save to go travelling. Experiences are better than stuff. Is the 500 better than the 135, yes but after a few months you'll get used to it and probably wont listen any more often are get any more enjoyment from your system than you're  getting already.

Just got my Olive 135s back from Chris West at AV Options- over a month without my "system" wasn't easy. With my cds2, 01, 52/super thru Focal 1038be's- life is great again!  These are still great, potent amps.  Never did sample a 500 though.  Patty Griffen sounding so good right now hard to imagine a better sound.  Thanks Chris!

david

Recent thread!

135's, high on fun factor!

"My 500 is off at naim being tweaked, and my old 135's slotted into the system for the last few weeks. I was luke warm to the prospect of the 135's, especially as these were recapped over 10 years ago. But boy oh boy, these amps really are fun to listen to! Maybe not the last word in finesse & transparency, but lots of listening and smiling this last few weeks. I'm now dreading that the 500 turns up and that fun factor goes away... surely surely surely it will blow the s"

I've travelled the same path, having gone from 135's to a stock 500. Whilst the 135's are fun and still the best of the old amps the 500 is in another league. It took a five second intro into a well known track to realise this. Speed, finesse, power, depth, width, neutrality, realism and ultimate musicality is the only way I can describe the leap forward in performance. This was still using my old 52, so you can be comfortable that a 52 can cope.

I've recently acquired a 552 and have to say that this is like opening a tap on the 500, giving you more of everything and just making everything sound 'right' - not that you knew the 52 was making anything sound wrong but you can now hear the 52's weaknesses very clearly.

52 + 135's = great!

52 + 500 = amazing!

552 + 500 = astonishing!

What about

552 + 135's ??

just curious as I can see this being realistic before 3 x 500

lyndon

In hindsight I'd agree that a 552 with 135's might be a bigger bang for you bucks and a step closer to perfection than a 52 with a 500.

In my situation I was running DBL's, so the 135's could get a bit asmatic at high volume levels and the introduction of the 500 cured this, hence this route but I now tend to agree with opinion that the 552 is the best single item Naim make.

Geko posted:

In hindsight I'd agree that a 552 with 135's might be a bigger bang for you bucks and a step closer to perfection than a 52 with a 500.

In my situation I was running DBL's, so the 135's could get a bit asmatic at high volume levels and the introduction of the 500 cured this, hence this route but I now tend to agree with opinion that the 552 is the best single item Naim make.

I see what you are getting at Geko, and I tend to agree.

Furthermore, I think Naim makes some amazing amps, and the DR technologies, are just the icing on the cake.

With that being said, Naim's Achilles Heel, is their lack of power.

Nap 200 ~ 70 watts of un-regulated power

My Nap 250 ~ 80 watts Naim Classic!

Nap 300 ~ 90 watts

Nap 135 mono Blocks ~ ? VFM

Nap 500 ~ 140 watts $

My FMJ P1 Mono Blocks ~ 170 watts

Heisenberg Mono Blocks ~ 540 watts $$

Statement Mono Blocks ~ 1 HP $$$

Does more Power automatically translates to better?

But, within the World of Naim, their answer is Bi-Amping, or Active.

Geko, has an 6 pack, ever crossed your mind!

Now if that's to much Fraim, there's always the STATEMENT! LOL......

JMHO!

Allante93!

Jonn posted:

Have the 135s serviced and keep them. Use the 10/20K you save to go travelling. Experiences are better than stuff. Is the 500 better than the 135, yes but after a few months you'll get used to it and probably wont listen any more often are get any more enjoyment from your system than you're  getting already.

Jonn sage advice and I probably should do that :-).

But I am just curious how much better is NAP500 and NAP500DR compared to NAP135 and in what terms are they better.

I will keep your advice in my mind whenever I go audio shopping 

Geko posted:

I've travelled the same path, having gone from 135's to a stock 500. Whilst the 135's are fun and still the best of the old amps the 500 is in another league. It took a five second intro into a well known track to realise this. Speed, finesse, power, depth, width, neutrality, realism and ultimate musicality is the only way I can describe the leap forward in performance. This was still using my old 52, so you can be comfortable that a 52 can cope.

I've recently acquired a 552 and have to say that this is like opening a tap on the 500, giving you more of everything and just making everything sound 'right' - not that you knew the 52 was making anything sound wrong but you can now hear the 52's weaknesses very clearly.

52 + 135's = great!

52 + 500 = amazing!

552 + 500 = astonishing!

Thanks for sharing your experiences Geko. It was very helpful.

Compared to 552, what are the weaknesses of the 52 in your opinion?

Many thanks

David

Jonn posted:

Have the 135s serviced and keep them. Use the 10/20K you save to go travelling. Experiences are better than stuff. Is the 500 better than the 135, yes but after a few months you'll get used to it and probably wont listen any more often are get any more enjoyment from your system than you're  getting already.

That is such sound advice (no pun intended).

Has a 6 pack ever crossed my mind?

Had one with Briks from about 1993 to 1999, so I know what an active system can bring. However, I would still say that a 552/500 delivers a better overall musical experience.

I've just sent my 552 back to the factory for a check and a service, so I have my 52 back in the system and straight away noticed a certain lack of precision compared to the 552. Instruments weren't as well placed in space, image got a bit narrower and darker, timing now seemed slightly off - funny never noticed this before with a 52. I always thought this was one of the 52's biggest strengths but it seems the 552 is even better! Instrument timbre was not as accurate.

I guess to sum it up the 552 just makes everything a lot more believable?

Compared 250dr to old nap500 .. old 500 blew it away in 1st few bars.....500dr in another league.....

Geko posted:

Has a 6 pack ever crossed my mind?

Had one with Briks from about 1993 to 1999, so I know what an active system can bring. However, I would still say that a 552/500 delivers a better overall musical experience.  (To your ears, not that iconic, got it!)

Geko posted:
"In hindsight I'd agree that a 552 with 135's might be a bigger bang for you bucks and a step closer to perfection than a 52 with a 500.

In my situation I was running DBL's, so the 135's could get a bit asmatic at high volume levels and the introduction of the 500 cured this, hence this route but I now tend to agree with opinion that the 552 is the best single item Naim make."

Interesting.

Naim 555 very high end CD player (CES 2007)

282 > Snaxo 362 > 3 x 250.2 > DBLs 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFzMuO3K3ZY

Allante93! 

Archived quotes:

"I used to run 500 (tweets)/300 (mids)/135s (bass) on DBLs with Snaxo/SC. I chucked it all in for a single 500 running passive with PAXO, because like DB mentioned above, the 500 is sooo far ahead of any other amp, it sticks out like a pollex dolorosum. It was either that or getting two more 500s. And a passive 500 system was just more balanced than an active system with a pot pourri of power amps. "

"As always, what to do? Anytime you part with big bucks you want to make the right decision. In your dilema I would be tempted to try out the active operation although I do not think it will work out as sonically the right thing to do. It never seems a good idea to mix power amps in an active system, two 300s may-be but a 300 and a 250.2 will probably not be a recipy for audio nirvna."

"I think the active rules have changed somewhat with the new SNAXO which is very different from the old one. It's perfectly feasible now to have a pair of DBL's with a NAP250-2 on the treble, NAP300 on the mid and a NAP500 on the bass."

I get it, at the end of the day, there is no substitute for hands on experience! 

Passive DBLs running of an lone 500,  can't be all that bad, no matter what! 

Maybe Active 500s brings more to the Party, But with Passive 500s, you still get Laid!!!!!

Allante93! 

PS. You would Know, Personal hands on Experience! 

Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Forum! 

ALLANTE93

before you went wonky active were you already active i.e. 6 135's ?

just wondering how the 2 scenarios compared

my target is to replace the 135's with 3 500's but would be a tall order to achieve in one hit even S/H

500's also bring another conundrum 

all S/H 

option 1. Buy older non DR examples which makes getting all 3 much easier but at some point I'll have to come across with 15 grand and then have to put up with 6 months of settling in time 

option 2. But newer/serviced DR examples, this will take longer to get all 3 but won't have to endure 6 months of settling in time

lyndon

Allante93 posted:

[[Archived quotes:]]

[[ From previous threads]]

============================

[[Argument in favor of Passive.]]

"I used to run 500 (tweets)/300 (mids)/135s (bass) on DBLs with Snaxo/SC. I chucked it all in for a single 500 running passive with PAXO, because like DB mentioned above, the 500 is sooo far ahead of any other amp, it sticks out like a pollex dolorosum. It was either that or getting two more 500s. And a passive 500 system was just more balanced than an active system with a pot pourri of power amps. "

"As always, what to do? Anytime you part with big bucks you want to make the right decision. In your dilema I would be tempted to try out the active operation although I do not think it will work out as sonically the right thing to do. It never seems a good idea to mix power amps in an active system, two 300s may-be but a 300 and a 250.2 will probably not be a recipy for audio nirvna."

 [[Argument in favor of Active]]

"I think the active rules have changed somewhat with the new SNAXO which is very different from the old one. It's perfectly feasible now to have a pair of DBL's with a NAP250-2 on the treble, NAP300 on the mid and a NAP500 on the bass."

=============================

I get it, at the end of the day, there is no substitute for hands on experience! 

Passive DBLs running of an lone 500,  can't be all that bad, no matter what! 

Maybe Active 500s brings more to the Party, But with Passive 500s, you still get Laid!!!!!

Allante93! 

[[PS. You would Know, Personal hands on Experience!]]

Geko posted:

In hindsight I'd agree that a 552 with 135's might be a bigger bang for you bucks and a step closer to perfection than a 52 with a 500.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Forum! 

Dear Lyndon, sorry to be misleading.

Please look at the [[····]] information.

Previous Archived Quotes, not mine.

Arguments for Passive

Arguments for Wonky Active

Thanking Geko, he has hands on experience!

I've been Full Blown Aktiv, with Linn, not Naim. 

LP 12/Ghenki>Kairn>3 x LK 280>Briks

Linn Dirak PS, Linn XO with Bingo Cards!

My only hands on Experience with Naim is:

Wonky Passive Bi-Amped Briks> 200 & 250.2

Upgraded to passive Tri-Amped Briks

Introduced Cdx2, Mk I

Introduced 7 Tier, 2 Stack Fraimlite

Present System:

Cdx2>282>HCDR>3 x 250.2>Briks

Next purchases, needed to go Active:

Snaxo 362 & SCDR

Geko has much more experience, than myself, once again sorry to be misleading.

Allante93!

Richieroo posted:

Compared 250dr to old nap500 .. old 500 blew it away in 1st few bars.....500dr in another league.....

 

 

Richieroo,

Could you please elaborate more on NAP500 vs NAP500DR (being in another league). How do they sound different? 

Perhaps borrowing from Geko's comment how do they compare in terms of Speed, finesse, power, depth, width, neutrality, realism and ultimate musicality ? and perhaps soundstage?

Geko posted:

I've travelled the same path, having gone from 135's to a stock 500. Whilst the 135's are fun and still the best of the old amps the 500 is in another league. It took a five second intro into a well known track to realise this. Speed, finesse, power, depth, width, neutrality, realism and ultimate musicality is the only way I can describe the leap forward in performance. This was still using my old 52, so you can be comfortable that a 52 can cope.

I've recently acquired a 552 and have to say that this is like opening a tap on the 500, giving you more of everything and just making everything sound 'right' - not that you knew the 52 was making anything sound wrong but you can now hear the 52's weaknesses very clearly.

52 + 135's = great!

52 + 500 = amazing!

552 + 500 = astonishing!

I did the opposite from 552DR + 250.2 to 552DR + 500 and came to same conclusion the 250 was actually bottlenecking the whole system.

My advice is buy buy buy a 500 either DR or not.

Regards

Roberto

Geko posted:

I've just sent my 552 back to the factory for a check and a service, so I have my 52 back in the system and straight away noticed a certain lack of precision compared to the 552. Instruments weren't as well placed in space, image got a bit narrower and darker, timing now seemed slightly off - funny never noticed this before with a 52. I always thought this was one of the 52's biggest strengths but it seems the 552 is even better! Instrument timbre was not as accurate.

I guess to sum it up the 552 just makes everything a lot more believable?

Geko,

Can you share with us the following:

Are you using the same interconnects and powercable with the 52 and the 552?

One thing for sure the burndy is different between 52 and 552.

Thanks

David

Hi,

Yes, all interconnects (SL and Lavender) and plugs (Powlines) are exactly the same with the exception of the burndy's. The plugs are still in the same sockets. The only change is that the 52 has to sit on the top of my Frame due to the rear leg interfering with the central connection.  I can (and will) drop the 552 down a level when I get it back.

Again, to give you some idea of the increased performance I would say that my very basic Naim tuner sounds nearly as good on the 552 as my CDX2.2, 555PS and NDac does on the 52.

rsch posted:

Geko posted:

I've travelled the same path, having gone from 135's to a stock 500. Whilst the 135's are fun and still the best of the old amps the 500 is in another league. It took a five second intro into a well known track to realise this. Speed, finesse, power, depth, width, neutrality, realism and ultimate musicality is the only way I can describe the leap forward in performance. This was still using my old 52, so you can be comfortable that a 52 can cope.

I've recently acquired a 552 and have to say that this is like opening a tap on the 500, giving you more of everything and just making everything sound 'right' - not that you knew the 52 was making anything sound wrong but you can now hear the 52's weaknesses very clearly.

52 + 135's = great!

52 + 500 = amazing!

552 + 500 = astonishing!

I did the opposite from 552DR + 250.2 to 552DR + 500 and came to same conclusion the 250 was actually bottlenecking the whole system.

My advice is buy buy buy a 500 either DR or not.

Regards

Roberto

which DIN/XLR cable between 552/PS and 500?

Nothing fancy just the stock 3amp job and NAC5 to the DBLs.

Geko posted:

Hi,

Yes, all interconnects (SL and Lavender) and plugs (Powlines) are exactly the same with the exception of the burndy's. ..........

I can (and will) drop the 552 down a level when I get it back.

[[Again, to give you some idea of the increased performance I would say that my very basic Naim tuner sounds NEARLY as good on the 552 as my CDX2.2, 555PS and NDac does on the 52.]]

 

WOW!

That's saying an awful lot about the difference between a 52 & 552!

But once again, that's your hands on experience!

Someone elses, Their MMV!

Allante93!