Unitilite problems

The multiroom issue is doubtless down to it all being wireless. Getting it wired is the first thing to do. As to it turning on I'm not sure, but that may go away as well. 

Really? Down to it all being wireless? I thought the whole idea with Naim was that it should all work without needing to be wired. 

Disappointing if that's truly the answer. 

My Qb is wifi connected although everything else, including a Unitilite which still has 4.3 firmware is wired and I don't get any problems of anything turning itself on when I don't want it. I don't think the turning on problem is anything to do with wifi or the Unitilite firmware either.

Are your friends using Spotify by any chance? There have been a number of reports of people finding that their system respond unexpectedly to what the Spotify is being asked to by a mobile device elsewhere. You can find those if you search the forum.

The stopping mid-track does strike me as probably a wifi issue as HH suggests. Assuming the Unitilite is usually the master for multiroom, I suggest hardwiring that to the network. You can do it with a long Ethernet cable if need be, just run temporarily between the two.

best

David

Thanks David.  I don't think that Spotify has been their general problem as they normally use it on uPnP.  However they did say that one of the 'ghost' events had shown Spotify as the source on the system.  

Sounds like the test needs to be a hardwired ethernet cable to the Unitilite then,  I'll fiddle around with the wi-fi channels too.  However the problem of cut-outs only arose when we went to 4.4, not before, so I wonder it there's been some other form of upset caused by that.  Does the fact the front display says 'Stopped' (after each cut-out) give any further clue?  

If they have ever used a Spotify account and it is controlled from a user device, then it is possible for the person who has that device to inadvertently tell the remote unit (the Naim stuff in this case) to play and when nothing happens, the user may turn the volume up to maximum! So they need to take the Naim kit off the list of possible devices on that Spotify account. Or disable Spotify in setup on the Naim kit. You can find out more by reading posts on that in the forum. I am not a Spotify expert.

On the stopping there isn't a general problem wIth firmware 4.4, but I do know one other person who has a similar issue with an NDX on 4.4. Almost certainly this is network related. A hard wired connection may help, otherwise you may need to wait for the next firmware update. I think the Stopped message just means "the bits didn't keep coming as I expected", but it doesn't help to isolate the issue I think.

best

David

Hungryhalibut posted:

The multiroom issue is doubtless down to it all being wireless. Getting it wired is the first thing to do. As to it turning on I'm not sure, but that may go away as well. 

Hi,

Latest Naim advice on wireless performance. Bear in mind that the Mu-So was launched etc as Naim's first Wireless audio system and still is promoted on their website as such. Constant advice to hard wire everything is not applicable to those purchasing a Naim wireless product.

Found under Mu-So support, Troubleshooting, Internet radio dropping out

"If the internet station is located a long way from Mu-so itself it's possible that internet latency is reducing throughout. If failing on wired ethernet connection try wireless, as the buffering is better for iRadio."

Kind of ruins the hard wired advice and check everything on your system, replace routers etc etc we've been getting for buffering problems raised for the last year doesn't it.

Kind Regards

RR

Thanks David.  Given someone else is having an issue of this type do you think I should consider going back to 4.3? The next full update might be months away.  

I think I will just take Spotify out of setup for now as I know my friends only used it when another friend of theirs came along and started using it!  They are not Spotify users themselves.  

RichW posted:

i installed some kit for a friend of mine.  A unitilite, muso and muso QB.  

At first this all worked well.  Then they started to hit some gremlins. First off the Multiroom facility kept playing up, which was a pain but could always be fixed for a while by turning all the streamers off and then on again. 

Next up, they hit the 'ghost' problem, but with a twist.  The 'ghost' problem with unitilite is where the thing turns itself on in the middle of the night.  For them the symptoms were different - it wasn't the unitilite turning itself on; it was the musos turning themselves on then cranking the volume round to max.  

I've installed firmware 4.4 which I hope will fix the problem but I'm not confident given that it wasn't the unitilite turning itself on, but the musos. I will probably know in the next couple of weeks I guess.  

But since installing. 4.4 we've now got a problem whereby the unitilite is stopping suddenly after about ten minutes of streaming.  Just shows 'Stopped' on the main screen; no error message or anything.  Multi room is also not working properly and is intermittent at best.  

All the devices are wifi connected to the network but the network itself is pretty solid and reliable.  The server is a standard Synology device running Minimsever; the network is Ubiquiti but has a D-Link router at the heart.  I haven't separated the hi-fi components via a switch or anything.  

Have searched around on the forums but can't see anything that's a likely cause.  I did upgrade to firmware 4.4 on the unitilite as that looked a likely solution for the 'ghost' problem.  

Would appreciate any thoughts and help.

Richard

Hi there,

This may help a little. Naim advice on Mu-So support website

"If the internet station is located a long way from Mu-so itself it's possible that internet latency is reducing throughout. If failing on wired ethernet connection try wireless, as the buffering is better for iRadio."

Don't automatically give up on your wireless dream. Devolo kit including wireless solutions do help and they supply a wireless "booster" which doesn't boost a poor signal but provided router output distribution. Check their website.

Kind Regards

RR

RichW posted:

Thanks David.  Given someone else is having an issue of this type do you think I should consider going back to 4.3? The next full update might be months away.  

I think I will just take Spotify out of setup for now as I know my friends only used it when another friend of theirs came along and started using it!  They are not Spotify users themselves.  

My friend had the problem with 4.3 too. But if you didn't have it with 4.3, going back to that is an obvious thing to try.

Regarding RR's comment, my suggestion of trying a wired connection is primarily to narrow down what the issue is. Once you know whether a wired connection fixes it, you can work on getting a wireless approach which works if you want to.

best

David

Red Rooster posted:

Latest Naim advice on wireless performance. Bear in mind that the Mu-So was launched etc as Naim's first Wireless audio system and still is promoted on their website as such. Constant advice to hard wire everything is not applicable to those purchasing a Naim wireless product.

 

They are saying that it was their first all-in one system, not their first wireless player, which it certainly wasn't. If iRadio happens to work better over WiFi due to some additional buffering, I'm pretty sure that is no more than a happy coincidence, and I, for one, would not use it if there was a wired alternative.

Red Rooster posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

The multiroom issue is doubtless down to it all being wireless. Getting it wired is the first thing to do. As to it turning on I'm not sure, but that may go away as well. 

Hi,

Latest Naim advice on wireless performance. Bear in mind that the Mu-So was launched etc as Naim's first Wireless audio system and still is promoted on their website as such. Constant advice to hard wire everything is not applicable to those purchasing a Naim wireless product.

Found under Mu-So support, Troubleshooting, Internet radio dropping out

"If the internet station is located a long way from Mu-so itself it's possible that internet latency is reducing throughout. If failing on wired ethernet connection try wireless, as the buffering is better for iRadio."

Kind of ruins the hard wired advice and check everything on your system, replace routers etc etc we've been getting for buffering problems raised for the last year doesn't it.

Kind Regards

 

RR

It's fine for you to repeat what Naim say, but I see that you don't actually own any of these products - or at least they are not in your profile. I own a Qb, and multiroom and internet radio were hopeless on wifi. Wiring the Qb fixed the problem, which is the basis for my suggestion. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Red Rooster posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

The multiroom issue is doubtless down to it all being wireless. Getting it wired is the first thing to do. As to it turning on I'm not sure, but that may go away as well. 

Hi,

Latest Naim advice on wireless performance. Bear in mind that the Mu-So was launched etc as Naim's first Wireless audio system and still is promoted on their website as such. Constant advice to hard wire everything is not applicable to those purchasing a Naim wireless product.

Found under Mu-So support, Troubleshooting, Internet radio dropping out

"If the internet station is located a long way from Mu-so itself it's possible that internet latency is reducing throughout. If failing on wired ethernet connection try wireless, as the buffering is better for iRadio."

Kind of ruins the hard wired advice and check everything on your system, replace routers etc etc we've been getting for buffering problems raised for the last year doesn't it.

Kind Regards

 

RR

It's fine for you to repeat what Naim say, but I see that you don't actually own any of these products - or at least they are not in your profile. I own a Qb, and multiroom and internet radio were hopeless on wifi. Wiring the Qb fixed the problem, which is the basis for my suggestion. 

Strange response. I have owned a Mu-So for 2 years, Naim kit for 25 years before going all Linn Klimax kit.

Check my posts for last few months on Mu-So performance, Internet Radio Drop outs etc etc etc.

I'm glad hard wiring your Naim Wireless product helped you out. Some of us like to move the Mu-So around the house, garden etc as we go about our lives.

Kind Regards

RR

RichW posted:

i installed some kit for a friend of mine.  A unitilite, muso and muso QB.  

At first this all worked well.  Then they started to hit some gremlins. First off the Multiroom facility kept playing up, which was a pain but could always be fixed for a while by turning all the streamers off and then on again. 

Next up, they hit the 'ghost' problem, but with a twist.  The 'ghost' problem with unitilite is where the thing turns itself on in the middle of the night.  For them the symptoms were different - it wasn't the unitilite turning itself on; it was the musos turning themselves on then cranking the volume round to max.  

I've installed firmware 4.4 which I hope will fix the problem but I'm not confident given that it wasn't the unitilite turning itself on, but the musos. I will probably know in the next couple of weeks I guess.  

But since installing. 4.4 we've now got a problem whereby the unitilite is stopping suddenly after about ten minutes of streaming.  Just shows 'Stopped' on the main screen; no error message or anything.  Multi room is also not working properly and is intermittent at best.  

All the devices are wifi connected to the network but the network itself is pretty solid and reliable.  The server is a standard Synology device running Minimsever; the network is Ubiquiti but has a D-Link router at the heart.  I haven't separated the hi-fi components via a switch or anything.  

Have searched around on the forums but can't see anything that's a likely cause.  I did upgrade to firmware 4.4 on the unitilite as that looked a likely solution for the 'ghost' problem.  

Would appreciate any thoughts and help.

Richard

Hi,

If the Mu-sos are linked to a Spotify account then they could be being turned on and turned up by someone on that Spotify account even if they are not on the same network as the Mu-sos are on (this is part of the functionality of Spotify Connect).

Obviously I understand that if the units are coming on in the middle of the night then it's not exactly conducive to finding out but if you can find out from the app whether they are coming on on the Spotify input then that would confirm whether that is the case.

If you want to force the Mu-so to be disconnected from any Spotify account then you can factory reset it (this will flush the Spotify details from it) but you would then need to set it back up on the WiFi network.

There's no reason that I can think of offhand that would cause the UnitiLite to stop streaming after ten minutes after updating to 4.4 firmware - is this when using UPnP or when using Internet Radio / TIDAL / Spotify etc? Does the same happen if the unit is hard wired to your network?

Best Regards

Phil

RichW posted:

Really? Down to it all being wireless? I thought the whole idea with Naim was that it should all work without needing to be wired. 

Disappointing if that's truly the answer. 

Hi,

If everything on the network is working well then there are no issues with using the products 'wireless' but in reality people usually use wireless to get network to places that would be difficult to "wire" and those are generally those places are also ones that would also get a patchy WiFi signal too.

Best regards

Phil

Red Rooster posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

The multiroom issue is doubtless down to it all being wireless. Getting it wired is the first thing to do. As to it turning on I'm not sure, but that may go away as well. 

Hi,

Latest Naim advice on wireless performance. Bear in mind that the Mu-So was launched etc as Naim's first Wireless audio system and still is promoted on their website as such. Constant advice to hard wire everything is not applicable to those purchasing a Naim wireless product.

Found under Mu-So support, Troubleshooting, Internet radio dropping out

"If the internet station is located a long way from Mu-so itself it's possible that internet latency is reducing throughout. If failing on wired ethernet connection try wireless, as the buffering is better for iRadio."

Kind of ruins the hard wired advice and check everything on your system, replace routers etc etc we've been getting for buffering problems raised for the last year doesn't it.

Kind Regards

 

RR

Hi RR,

With *ALL* networked products a wired connection will be more reliable than a WiFi (or Ethernet Over Mains) connection and it will always be recommended that wired connections are used whenever possible. Use over a WiFi network will always be dependent upon the WiFi network itself being both stable and reliable.

We do use a different buffering schema between wired and WiFi networking so if you have the specific issue where you have a streaming issue caused by excessive internet latency then it is *POSSIBLE* that the buffering schema used for WiFi networking may mask over that but it is a very edge case scenario and is only of use for masking an issue that is outside of your network in that instance - it really depends on the cause of the specific issue that is being experienced and this particular suggestion is very much a workaround (rather than a solution) for a very specific problem.

When it comes to your local network then a properly wired Ethernet network will always be more reliable and stable than a wireless network and it is definitely very much a valid response to make sure that your underlying network is working correctly rather than just relying on sticking plaster solutions to get things working.

Best regards

Phil Harris 

Red Rooster posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Red Rooster posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

The multiroom issue is doubtless down to it all being wireless. Getting it wired is the first thing to do. As to it turning on I'm not sure, but that may go away as well. 

Hi,

Latest Naim advice on wireless performance. Bear in mind that the Mu-So was launched etc as Naim's first Wireless audio system and still is promoted on their website as such. Constant advice to hard wire everything is not applicable to those purchasing a Naim wireless product.

Found under Mu-So support, Troubleshooting, Internet radio dropping out

"If the internet station is located a long way from Mu-so itself it's possible that internet latency is reducing throughout. If failing on wired ethernet connection try wireless, as the buffering is better for iRadio."

Kind of ruins the hard wired advice and check everything on your system, replace routers etc etc we've been getting for buffering problems raised for the last year doesn't it.

Kind Regards

 

RR

It's fine for you to repeat what Naim say, but I see that you don't actually own any of these products - or at least they are not in your profile. I own a Qb, and multiroom and internet radio were hopeless on wifi. Wiring the Qb fixed the problem, which is the basis for my suggestion. 

Strange response. I have owned a Mu-So for 2 years, Naim kit for 25 years before going all Linn Klimax kit.

Check my posts for last few months on Mu-So performance, Internet Radio Drop outs etc etc etc.

I'm glad hard wiring your Naim Wireless product helped you out. Some of us like to move the Mu-So around the house, garden etc as we go about our lives.

Kind Regards

RR

I checked your profile, didn't see a muso listed and wrongly assumed you didn't have one. But then I don't list my Qb either. If you read Phil's response it rather suggests that wiring may solve the problem. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I checked your profile, didn't see a muso listed and wrongly assumed you didn't have one. But then I don't list my Qb either. If you read Phil's response it rather suggests that wiring may solve the problem. 

Hi HH,

Hard wiring is simply a step in diagnosing an issue - if hard wiring resolves the problem then at least we have a better idea of where the issue lies and then it's a choice as to whether the user then progresses resolving the problem properly or lives with some level of inconvenience.

Unfortunately things like "WiFi Boosters" (wireless repeaters) and Ethernet Over Mains devices (including the "Devolo with wireless access points" mentioned by RR) which are available to people in every PC World and Maplin at best "resolve" (mask) one issue by possibly introducing another but this isn't explained by the manufacturers. I did do a few basic primer docs on the do's and don'ts of how these things do (and don't) work which I don't think ever got through vetting here so maybe I should give those a push again...

Best

Phil 

Phil Harris posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I checked your profile, didn't see a muso listed and wrongly assumed you didn't have one. But then I don't list my Qb either. If you read Phil's response it rather suggests that wiring may solve the problem. 

Hi HH,

Hard wiring is simply a step in diagnosing an issue - if hard wiring resolves the problem then at least we have a better idea of where the issue lies and then it's a choice as to whether the user then progresses resolving the problem properly or lives with some level of inconvenience.

Unfortunately things like "WiFi Boosters" (wireless repeaters) and Ethernet Over Mains devices (including the "Devolo with wireless access points" mentioned by RR) which are available to people in every PC World and Maplin at best "resolve" (mask) one issue by possibly introducing another but this isn't explained by the manufacturers. I did do a few basic primer docs on the do's and don'ts of how these things do (and don't) work which I don't think ever got through vetting here so maybe I should give those a push again...

Best

Phil 

Phil,

Thanks for responding I'm not going to fall out over this (or repeat myself again) but to refer to devolo products as sticking plaster is well wide of the mark. I have used them with 100% reliability with my Linn Klimax streaming system for 4 years now. No issues and NO dropouts.

Very happy with my dealers help and support on this and using devolos , who also has many other happy LInnDS and Devolo customers. Why are there no iRadio dropout posts on the Linn website btw?

Thats me done now, not posting again about this on this forum.

ttfn

RR

For what its worth for anyone else reading I have to agree with Phil, power line adapters such as the Devolos are kludges or sticking plasters if you are wanting them to provide pseudo ethernet. They  can't effectively operate duplex ethernet effectively by the nature of how they work. Most devices that think they are talking to ethernet expect reliable duplex operation these days - and as such Devolo and similar are going to be a compromise possibly resulting in lost data or non ideal TCP timing . The frustrating thing for organizations such as Naim is that many of the issues being caused to home networks by using such devices are probably being masked by the network clients trying to recover from the deficiencies from power line adapters - but there may come a point where that  compromise in performance just won't be recoverable and devices fail.

If you are going to use quality audio systems (or anything else for that matter) that requires a quality ethernet connection - you probably do owe it yourself to use proper ethernet or even wifi (with a professional access point) as opposed to power line adapters.....

Red Rooster posted:

Phil,

Thanks for responding I'm not going to fall out over this (or repeat myself again) but to refer to devolo products as sticking plaster is well wide of the mark. I have used them with 100% reliability with my Linn Klimax streaming system for 4 years now. No issues and NO dropouts.

Very happy with my dealers help and support on this and using devolos , who also has many other happy LInnDS and Devolo customers. Why are there no iRadio dropout posts on the Linn website btw?

Thats me done now, not posting again about this on this forum.

ttfn

RR

Hi RR,

I'm sorry that you do not agree with me that Devolos are not a reliable and maintainable solution - obviously if you wish to stick with them then that is your choice completely. I ultimately have no problem with customers deciding to use Devolos (and other such units) as long as they are aware of the possible implications and issues and, if there are issues when using them, then taking them out of the chain will be part of the diagnosis sequence that I will follow.

So when you have hard wired your Mu-so devices to your router (rather than going through your Ethernet Over Mains devices) do you get dropouts?

Best Regards

Phil 

Phil

RR was just commenting. The OP with the problem is RichW (see top of the thread). He isn't using Devolos.

best

David

Good spot Simon, I realised the half duplex nature of EoP devices but hadn't thought it through far enough to twig the issue with TCP timing and streaming devices.  Good observation.  I feel a bit of a fool for not realising that!