% Spend on Hi-Fi components

I used to think the same, but the good news is that there are cables at all price levels, not just the SL ones

Convention wisdom was always source first, so something like

source 40%

amp 30%

speakers 20%

cables etc 10%

as you move higher up the ladder this kind of goes out the window a little bit as anyone using a full statement amp at  approx £180,000 would imply a £240,000 turntable or cd playet

lyndon

272 isn't just a source, it's part of the amp as well.

Another convention was the balanced system (as opposed to the source first 'monkfish' system)

Source  30%
Amp  30%
Speakers  30%
Cables etc.  10%

With secondhand components do you consider the s/h purchase price or the RRP?

With old components do you consider the original purchase price or the RRP of the nearest current equivalent?

I would suggest that digital sources now offer better value, and a balanced system might have a lower priced source, particularly compared to vinyl. Just as well for those with Naim separates systems, given the price of their preamps.

Source first thinking still exists, but I don't think that necessarily translates into financial terms any more.

When sources were generally mechanical (vinyl playback) and even with CD players where the mechanism had a large influence on the eventual sound quality, to increase quality could mean spending a huge amount more on upgrading components and so the BOM would increase quite significantly.

These days with streaming systems, the differences in components are much less.  So doubling spend on a turntable or CD player only brought modest increases; with a streamer doubling can take you from almost bottom of range to top.  What you are paying for more is development costs.

Amplifiers are a mature technology ... look at how long most of Naim's designs have been around.  Yes we have the DR technology providing upgrades, but the actual amplifiers are mature.

On the other hand speakers, like turntables, are mostly mechanical.  Precision mechanics take money.  So we're back to larger expenditure to gain an improvement.

Source (x2) 13.7%

Amplification 53.8%

Loudspeakers 20.5%

Cables 7.3%

Rack and accessories 4.7%

*Actual price paid. I may have overspent on amplification, the only Naim pieces in the system. Percentage for cables will be bumped up to about 10% with the inclusion of the Chord Signature TA DIN/XLR and jumpers in due time which will complete the system. I've excluded the PMC sub as I find the system to sound better without the sub.

Eloise, I think a particular contribution to the reducing cost of purely digital front ends has come from the TLAs*¹ 'SMT' and 'LSI', and in the case of the SHARC processor the FLEA*² 'VLSI' (whilst not forgetting that SHARC is itself a FLDEA*³).

*¹  Three Letter Abbreviation
*²  Four Letter Extended Abbreviation
*³  Five Letter Doubly Extended Abbreviation

I always spend 100% of my h-fi budget on my hi-fi 

Source                                       27.4%     (272 + Burndy + 555PSDR [s/h] ) divided by 2

Amp                                           56.1%    (272 + Burndy + 555PSDR [s/h]) divided by 2 + 300DR [s/h]

Speakers                                   9.7%     (Spendor SP2s, 30 years ago!  + B&W ASW610XP)

Cables / Rack / Stand              3.8%

DRC / Acoustic treatment       3.2%  (+ a lot of time!)

Huge posted:

272 isn't just a source, it's part of the amp as well.

Another convention was the balanced system (as opposed to the source first 'monkfish' system)

Source  30%
Amp  30%
Speakers  30%
Cables etc.  10%

Point taken Huge. In that case my figures become 46% on source/amplification, 40% on speakers, compared to 60% / 40% using conventional wisdom. Does that mean my system is a mullet, rather than a monkfish? Does it matter? Do I care?!!

Seriously, this was only meant to be a bit of Sunday morning diversionary fun to take my mind off the post election miasma which appears to have descended over the nation.

I personally have seen such a phenomenal improvement by investing in the K6s as opposed to my D20r speakers, I am often a little surprised to read of people matching relatively cheap, 'low end' speakers with sources and amps costing three or four times as much. 

À chacun a son goût I suppose.

Adam Zielinski posted:

I always spend 100% of my h-fi budget on my hi-fi 

Thank goodness my figures totalled up correctly!

My speakers allocation is a bit tongue in cheek as well, as the current RRP of the Spendors (they're still made after >30 years in production) is £2750, where as I bought them new for £550.  Add in the £800 for the sub and at £3.5k they're just a litte more than the 272.

I believe that speaker choice is more influenced by personal taste than any other single component.

My present system as below, first figure is current new replacement cost, or maufactuerer's current equivalent where existing is no longer in production, using manufacturer's recommended retail price. Because I bought much of it secondhand, I've included  in perentheses the proportion based on prices i actually paid, normalised for inflation where necessary.

• Source (music store, renderer and DAC: 33% (57%)
• Amplification (power amp only as I don't use a preamp, while a DAC with volume control doesn't lend itself to assigning a proportion of that cost as if ut were a preamp):16% (13%)
• Speakers: 50% (29%)
• Cables: 1% (1%)

• Source/Pre: 30% list, 51% actual price
• Amplification: 30% list, 29% actual price
• Speakers: 40% list, 20% actual price

SOURCE: 20 %

AMPLIFICATION: 30 %

SPEAKERS:  10 %

SUPPORT/CABLES:   40 %

Timmo1341 posted:

In a moment of reflection on this year's upgrade, I've been playing around with the figures which reveal:

Source (N272 + 555PS)        34%

Amp (250DR).                        12%

Speakers (ProAc K6).             40%

Cables, rack etc.                     14%

Not sure how this compares with conventional wisdom (or indeed if it matters), but thought it might be interesting to compare with other members. I definitely belong to the 'speakers really matter' camp, provided there exists a source with whose quality is good and amplification capable of controlling the speakers. I'm not sure I could ever bring myself to spend a significantly larger proportion on cables.

What do others think?

Tim

We're all thinking the same thing you are, but more importantly, what are we doing.

A BALANCED SYSTEM$$$$$$$$$$

"Interesting, I never heard of this Guy, or Vertere, for that matter. However, I'm familiar with Roksan, I think!

"Touraj Moghaddam.

The CEO and founder of Vertere, creators of high-end audio cables, has dedicated almost his entire working life to striving for listening perfection.

"[we have to understand what is the weakest link and then produce and design it and get the result that you expected. The advantage is that once you’ve done that it automatically leads you to the next weak link.]”

In the context of Naim, the numbers become skewed, as we digress down the Ladder!

NDS>Statement>Ovators 800s ~ USD

13K>270K>30K = Nearly a Third of a  Million!

No need to elaborate any further, we all get the point!

But like the weakest link Guy said, if one is into Racing, and must spend $895K on an screw, in order to win, so beit.

With that being said, as the Late Barry White used to sing, Practice What You Preach!

My good friend just posted on an ongoing thread, I'm not spending more on Cables than I Spent on my Speaker, Drink the Kool Aide, if you like!

That Sums it up!

It's personal.

Enjoy your Music!

Allante93!

PS.  SL 5pin Din, XLR, 5M SC ~ 6K GBP

Naim's Top Source - NDS ~ 7K GBP

TOBYJUG posted:

SOURCE: 20 %

AMPLIFICATION: 30 %

SPEAKERS:  10 %

SUPPORT/CABLES:   40 %

 

Didn't see your post, but dead on!

Practice what you Preach!

I wonder what Naim's take we be on this Topic!

"During the development of STATEMENT, our flagship amplification system, our ENGINEERS realised that they would need to design a whole new range of high-performance cables for  (STATEMENT)   to reach its true potential.  

With this in mind they began a development project to design interconnects and speaker cable that would meet STATEMENT standards of performance. Through a deep understanding of material science and after thousands of hours testing in the listening room, the SUPER LUMINA range was born.

Designed to maximise the performance of STATEMENT

(,BUT IF YOU HAVE THE CASH)

equally at home in 500 Series and Classic Series systems, Super Lumina speaker cables are available with 4mm or spade connectors. 

I Really Respect Naim, they Tell it, Like it is!

Allante93!

PS. Cdx2>282>HCDR>3 x 250.2> Briks

Standard IC & Fraimlite!

Allante93 posted:

With this in mind they began a development project to design interconnects and speaker cable that would meet STATEMENT standards of performance. Through a deep understanding of material science and after thousands of hours testing in the listening room, the SUPER LUMINA range was born.

 

Or got on the phone to the Vertere guys 

Using the view that a N272 and 555 are half source half amplification:

Source 33%

Amplification 37%

Speakers 6%

Cables/Stands 24%

Speakers look low but I needed ones that would work well in a 12' x 8' room and the ATC SCM11s fitted the bill perfectly (against speakers that I demo' costing twice the price)

Another reason I love the Forum, you Guys make me feel Good! LOL......

Allante93!

PS.

Not directed @ anyone in particular!

Going for a walk!

Nah... Source: 10  %

           Statement:   70. %

           SL cables:     7  %

          Speakers:     10  %

          Supports:     3  %

Thats why those humongous Focals sound wrong.

source 25%

pre+ power 25%

speakers 40%

cables  10%

In my case this combinatioin works perfectly for my room.

But yes, this sort of thinking is really specific to the system.  We all hear the same thing differently. But hang on. We all hear different things differently.

you got £500. £5.000. £50.000. £500.000 etc to spend ? Systems are a moving target. You hit bullseye this year.   You'd miss big time say this time next decade. Keep your ear on the ground, but within distance of large poopers.