% Spend on Hi-Fi components

Posted by: Timmo1341 on 11 June 2017

In a moment of reflection on this year's upgrade, I've been playing around with the figures which reveal:

Source (N272 + 555PS)        34%

Amp (250DR).                        12%

Speakers (ProAc K6).             40%

Cables, rack etc.                     14%

Not sure how this compares with conventional wisdom (or indeed if it matters), but thought it might be interesting to compare with other members. I definitely belong to the 'speakers really matter' camp, provided there exists a source with whose quality is good and amplification capable of controlling the speakers. I'm not sure I could ever bring myself to spend a significantly larger proportion on cables.

What do others think?

Tim

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Pcd
The Strat (Fender) posted:

Okay I'm probably alone here - the biggest misconception is that you can configure hi-fi system based on a mantra of source first or speaker first.  The key is synergy through the chain all the way to room/speaker integration.

I must agree with this when I was using an Olive system in the mid nineties consisting of a LP12, CDI, Supercap and a 250 with Epos ES14 speakers the dealer suggested an upgrade to SBLs

He brought a set out and set them up but in my room they sounded bloody awful the dealer tried everything including returning with another set to try but they just would not work in my room the ES14s at around a third of the price were far more enjoyable, so sometimes what you assume should be better might not necessarily be so.

 

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Innocent Bystander
djh1697 posted:

I really thought about this, it would be too difficult to work it out! In 1986 my Pink Triangle was £300 second hand, how much would it cost today? Upgrades done to it over the past 8 years or so? How do i quantify it?  Quite easy if you purchase your system in one go. 

In 1986 my take home pay was about £60/week!

To convert I would use retail/consumer price index. UK office of national statistics gives both (rpi only that far back), but probably too much data. A simple one, and just by year not month, is  here (I hope this is permitted): http://www.swanlowpark.co.uk/retail-price-index.jsp

simply divide cost by the index for the year of purchase and multiply by the index for this year (or any other of choice). You can do that with upgrades along the way.

For my speakers, because now discontinued, I had, for house insurance purposes, contacted the manufacturer to get their confirmation of what they would tell an insurance company is the current equivalent, which they advised (and indeed was as I had assessed), so when I totted up my current system I used that as the effective current value.

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Eloise
steve95775 posted:

IMany years ago when dinosaurs ruled the Earth, Mr Tiefenbrun, standing in my sho stated that tri amped active Isobariks driven with a Rega RP3 would sound worse than an LP12/Ittok/Asak driving a Nad 3020 and small bookshelves.

So being a card carrying flat earther, we set it up. In my lounge. Every time I swapped things around, conclusion was the same. The mullet won out.

I can never remember fully which way round is which ... but I'm thinking "the mullet won" means the RP3 with Terri-amped Isobariks won.

The elephant in the room question though is... would both have been beaten (maybe even blown out the water) by a well balanced system?

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Allante93

Let's go Back in time, say you had a Cousin that was well off! 

He pays you a visit in the spring of 2014, and ask your advice, because you are a nerd who surfs Hi Fi Forums Daily!

What the Heck, he has the Cash: GBP

{No Super Lumina, No Statement!}

Source~ NDS/Melco~14K

Pre-Amp~ 552~19K

Amp~ 500~ 18K

Speakers~ Titans/Ovators~30K

Support Rack ~ Fraim~4K

Cabling~ Nac A5/Hi line ~ 1K

 

Total = 86K Pounds!

Things sure have changed in a Couple of years!

%,s Spent on Hi-Fi Components.

Enjoy your Music, The Why!

Allante93!

PS. Simple Hi End Passive System

Not 3 Amps, Snaxo, SCDR!

With Standard Naim IC, Hi Line, and

Naca 5!

 

 

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by alanbass1
Allante93 posted:

Let's go Back in time, say you had a Cousin that was well off! 

He pays you a visit in the spring of 2014, and ask your advice, because you are a nerd who surfs Hi Fi Forums Daily!

What the Heck, he has the Cash: GBP

{No Super Lumina, No Statement!}

Source~ NDS/Melco~14K

Pre-Amp~ 552~19K

Amp~ 500~ 18K

Speakers~ Titans/Ovators~30K

Support Rack ~ Fraim~4K

Cabling~ Nac A5/Hi line ~ 1K

 

Total = 86K Pounds!

Things sure have changed in a Couple of years!

%,s Spent on Hi-Fi Components.

Enjoy your Music, The Why!

Allante93!

PS. Simple Hi End Passive System

Not 3 Amps, Snaxo, SCDR!

With Standard Naim IC, Hi Line, and

Naca 5!

 

 

And you could audition SL adding another £6k and see if there is a worthwhile improvement

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Allante93
alanbass1 posted:
Allante93 posted:

Let's go Back in time, say you had a Cousin that was well off! 

He pays you a visit in the spring of 2014, and ask your advice, because you are a nerd who surfs Hi Fi Forums Daily!

What the Heck, he has the Cash: GBP

{No Super Lumina, No Statement!}

Source~ NDS/Melco~14K

Pre-Amp~ 552~19K

Amp~ 500~ 18K

Speakers~ Titans/Ovators~30K

Support Rack ~ Fraim~4K

Cabling~ Nac A5/Hi line ~ 1K

 

Total = 86K Pounds!

Things sure have changed in a Couple of years!

%,s Spent on Hi-Fi Components.

Enjoy your Music, The Why!

Allante93!

PS. Simple Hi End Passive System

Not 3 Amps, Snaxo, SCDR!

With Standard Naim IC, Hi Line, and

Naca 5!

 

 

And you could audition SL adding another £6k and see if there is a worthwhile improvement

That was a hypothetical situation, make believe. The point being,  just a short while ago, a wealthy individual could purchase  a top-of-the-line system, without any fancy cables.  

Before the Statement Era!

No, SL technologies!

Even though the system was in the 80K range, the percentage they spent on cabling was less than 3%.

That's all, sorry to be miss-leading! 

Allante93!

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Malaka
Allante93 posted:

Let's go Back in time, say you had a Cousin that was well off! 

He pays you a visit in the spring of 2014, and ask your advice, because you are a nerd who surfs Hi Fi Forums Daily!

What the Heck, he has the Cash: GBP

{No Super Lumina, No Statement!}

Source~ NDS/Melco~14K

Pre-Amp~ 552~19K

Amp~ 500~ 18K

Speakers~ Titans/Ovators~30K

Support Rack ~ Fraim~4K

Cabling~ Nac A5/Hi line ~ 1K

 

Total = 86K Pounds!

Things sure have changed in a Couple of years!

%,s Spent on Hi-Fi Components.

Enjoy your Music, The Why!

Allante93!

PS. Simple Hi End Passive System

Not 3 Amps, Snaxo, SCDR!

With Standard Naim IC, Hi Line, and

Naca 5!

 

 

let's just quit pretending...you got the cash or you don't I know I do!

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Allante93

People that speak three languages we called them trilingual, people that speak two languages we call them bilingual, people that speak one language, we call them dumb Americans like myself! LOL.....

A joke, I imagine you speak more than 1 language.

Very Good English, my friend, and very considerate!

Have a nice Day, and Enjoy your Music!

Allante93!

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Allante93

Stop it Malaka, that's not nice!

 

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by alanbass1
Allante93 posted:
alanbass1 posted:
Allante93 posted:

Let's go Back in time, say you had a Cousin that was well off! 

He pays you a visit in the spring of 2014, and ask your advice, because you are a nerd who surfs Hi Fi Forums Daily!

What the Heck, he has the Cash: GBP

{No Super Lumina, No Statement!}

Source~ NDS/Melco~14K

Pre-Amp~ 552~19K

Amp~ 500~ 18K

Speakers~ Titans/Ovators~30K

Support Rack ~ Fraim~4K

Cabling~ Nac A5/Hi line ~ 1K

 

Total = 86K Pounds!

Things sure have changed in a Couple of years!

%,s Spent on Hi-Fi Components.

Enjoy your Music, The Why!

Allante93!

PS. Simple Hi End Passive System

Not 3 Amps, Snaxo, SCDR!

With Standard Naim IC, Hi Line, and

Naca 5!

 

 

And you could audition SL adding another £6k and see if there is a worthwhile improvement

That was a hypothetical situation, make believe. The point being,  just a short while ago, a wealthy individual could purchase  a top-of-the-line system, without any fancy cables.  

Before the Statement Era!

No, SL technologies!

Even though the system was in the 80K range, the percentage they spent on cabling was less than 3%.

That's all, sorry to be miss-leading! 

Allante93!

Not quite correct. Before Statement you could not buy expensive Naim IC (above highline), but you could have blown many more thousands on non Naim interconnects

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Allante93

Do you get it Malaka, Times are changing!

Don't hate the Messenger, listen to the Message that's all!

That gentleman was nice!

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Allante93

Ok!

You are right, I didn't get it, thanks for clearing it up!

Out, going to dust my lamps!

Thanks!

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by lyndon

Allante93

how do you passively trip amp briks ?

just curious 

lyndon

 

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Timmo1341
Allante93 posted:
Timmo1341 posted:

In a moment of reflection on this year's upgrade, I've been playing around with the figures which reveal:

Source (N272 + 555PS)        34%

Amp (250DR).                        12%

Speakers (ProAc K6).             40%

Cables, rack etc.                     14%

 

What do others think?

Tim

I think you have achieved your  goals, nice Balanced System, No Forum members would debate that.

Now, the second goal, interesting it is!

The hidden agenda lies within your Support & Cabling.

That's what makes this thread interesting, it goes against conventional wisdom.

Conventional wisdom suggest 10% on Cabling alone. You're at 14%.

I take it you're not sporting Naim's Support System, or Naim's $1.5K SL IC, which you could get away with your 272!

If you were, that 14% would increase drastically!

 

Times are changing, back in the day, 3% on Cabling Alone was fine. Heck, way back in the Spring of 2015, 10% may have been over the top!

NDS>552>500>SL2>Fraim

STANDARD NAIM IC & NAC A5

But if one partakes in these Luxe Interconnects, and Speaker Cabling, you can throw conventional wisdom out the window.

"Ascribing percentages seems something of a pointlessly geeky exercise to me - what matters is what works."

The percentages are within line:

S1& 552 territory, but 272!

So, the OP is speaking to a large Audience, who have chosen to Drink the Kool Aid.

Including myself, After I Activate my Dusty Briks!

The weakest Link, The IC!

@ HH, thanks for the info. Naim's Speakers can't be Bi- Amped Passively, like My Briks!

Richard followed your lead, after my misleading comment praising the Active Club!

Allante93!

 

Allante

Correct, I don't have Fraim, but 3 shelves of IsoBlue, 10 metres of Chord Epic Reference, Superlumina DIN to XLR and 2 Powerlines. Works out to be 14.2% of total spend. Auditioned Superlumina speaker cables, just didn't do it for me. Don't think I'll bother going down the route of spending large sums on patch cables unless I find a dealer willing to loan me a couple without obligation.

I find the various reactions on this thread to be absolutely fascinating. Some people just can't help implying that those who spend in proportions at variance with their own systems are somehow wrong - or perhaps I'm just being over sensitive?!

As you've said more than once (apologies if I paraphrase), just relax and enjoy the music!

Tim

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Allante93
Timmo1341 posted:
Allante93 posted:
Timmo1341 posted:

In a moment of reflection on this year's upgrade, I've been playing around with the figures which reveal:

Source (N272 + 555PS)        34%

Amp (250DR).                        12%

Speakers (ProAc K6).             40%

Cables, rack etc.                     14%

 

What do others think?

Tim

I think you have achieved your  goals, nice Balanced System, No Forum members would debate that.

Now, the second goal, interesting it is!

The hidden agenda lies within your Support & Cabling.

That's what makes this thread interesting, it goes against conventional wisdom.

Conventional wisdom suggest 10% on Cabling alone. You're at 14%.

I take it you're not sporting Naim's Support System, or Naim's $1.5K SL IC, which you could get away with your 272!

If you were, that 14% would increase drastically!

 

Times are changing, back in the day, 3% on Cabling Alone was fine. Heck, way back in the Spring of 2015, 10% may have been over the top!

NDS>552>500>SL2>Fraim

STANDARD NAIM IC & NAC A5

But if one partakes in these Luxe Interconnects, and Speaker Cabling, you can throw conventional wisdom out the window.

"Ascribing percentages seems something of a pointlessly geeky exercise to me - what matters is what works."

The percentages are within line:

S1& 552 territory, but 272!

So, the OP is speaking to a large Audience, who have chosen to Drink the Kool Aid.

Including myself, After I Activate my Dusty Briks!

The weakest Link, The IC!

@ HH, thanks for the info. Naim's Speakers can't be Bi- Amped Passively, like My Briks!

Richard followed your lead, after my misleading comment praising the Active Club!

Allante93!

 

Allante

Correct, I don't have Fraim, but 3 shelves of IsoBlue, 10 metres of Chord Epic Reference, Superlumina DIN to XLR and 2 Powerlines. Works out to be 14.2% of total spend. Auditioned Superlumina speaker cables, just didn't do it for me. Don't think I'll bother going down the route of spending large sums on patch cables unless I find a dealer willing to loan me a couple without obligation.

I find the various reactions on this thread to be absolutely fascinating. Some people just can't help implying that those who spend in proportions at variance with their own systems are somehow wrong - or perhaps I'm just being over sensitive?!

As you've said more than once (apologies if I paraphrase), just relax and enjoy the music!

Tim

I feel you Timmo, it's interesting, not saying its a good thing, or a bad thing.  Personally I do believe that the weakest link is the interconnect, However, I will not address that until I have sorted out others areas of improvement within my System. 

What others do, I don't really care! 

But we are on point, nice System! 

Allante93! 

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Allante93
Allante93 posted:

The Crossover incorporated beneath the Briks, within Stands made for the Briks! 

Notice how the Nac A4/Linn K-20 Speaker Cable, that is used from the internal/external XO, is routed directly to the inputs of the Isobariks! 

Not Bad in Passive Mode, but can't wait to take that XO out of the Equation! 

I thought it best not to change Speaker Cable, until I take the XO out of the equation, at that point, I will be eyeballing that Archaic Chord Signature Speaker Cable, I always thought it was well put together!  

How bad can it Be!!!!

Allante93! 

PS. Those Bricks  weigh a ton, What ever happened to Real Craftsmanship!  

@ Lyndon, its easy, but not to be mis-leading, as HH, and Richard Dane has said, Naim Speakers can't be Passively Bi, or Tri-Amped! 

But Linn Isobariks, that's another Story.

First in the rear of the SC, and HC their are three outputs.  That's where your 3 amps are connected. 4 pin Din to XLR with the three 250.2's . 

Now, From the back of the amps run the three pair of speaker wires to the Crossover in the above picture. The first stage was done on the Crossover, back in the  day I Bi-Amped my LK 280's, before I went Full Blown Active with LP 12>Ghenki> Linn XO with Bingo Card, Linn Dirack PS> Briks. 

But That's it simple! The only thing I had to do was cut the three wire Bridge, to allow the Cross over to go into Tri Amp Mode. 

250.2 > Tweeters 

2502 > Midrange

250.2 >  Bass

Is it all that ??????  No!!!! 

But as I said for the umpteenth  time it is the Path towards an Naim Active System! 

Is an Naim Active System All that? I don't know, ask the 500 Club! 

Ask DB, he had Active Briks with 552 and 3 x 500s . 

Of Course, he's moved on to Active 800s with Naim's Top of the Line Pre Amp! 

But that's it Lyndon, run the three amps from the rear of HCDR, or SCDR, which ever PS you are using to power your Pre-Amp. 

Then that signal is directed to the three amps, which in return is directed to the Crossover, shown above, which is directed to the inputs on the rear of the Bricks!!!!!

REPEAT, TEMPORARY UNTIL I PURCHASE A SNAXO 362 AND SC WITH THE BURNDY GOING FROM THE SC TO THE SNAXO, THEN THE SNAXO WILL DELIVER THE  SIGNALS TO THE REAR OF THE BRIKS THREE WAY SPEAKER. 

HENCE, ELIMINATING THAT CROSSOVER SHOWN ABOVE! 

Hope that answers your question Lyndon! 

Allante93! 

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Allante93

@ Lyndon! 

 

I Cleaned and cut the the Bridges myself, with the aid of the Naim Forum, Nice bunch of Guys! 

That's it Lyndon! 

Now for the rest of you, 

REPEAT, THIS CAN ONLY BE DONE WITH THE BRIKS, AS HH, AND MR. RICHARD DANE HAS POINTED OUT! 

Is it all that?  NO, but I can tell that I do have more head room, and my 250.2 is no longer running hot and shutting down like it was when I was Bi amping with 200 & 250.2. 

That's why I Sold the 200, and purchased two more 250.2s.  2012 and 2015. 

Next Step, Active Tri-Amped Briks, with Snaxo. 

For now Passive Tri-Amped Briks, without Snaxo, or SC! 

Got it!

Hope that helped Lyndon. 

Enjoy your Music! 

Allante93! 

PS, my HCDR, has the same three outputs as the Above SC has, didn't feel like going into my Library and copying it to photebuckgt! 

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by kevin J Carden
Erich posted:
Adam Zielinski posted:

I always spend 100% of my h-fi budget on my hi-fi 

I don't remeber how much I spent in each piece but I'm almost sure that in total was about the same as you, 100%.

I admire your restraint gents. I always end up about 200%+...!

More objectively re this  thread I'm aware that me speakers are less then 12%  at current replacement prices . Has me wondering if I should be thinking of replacements or whether the logic really applies. So much depends on how the the speakers work in the room. 

 

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by lyndon

Alliante93

now I understand 

you have the newer crossovers compared to my old briks so I don't know how much difference that makes

but when I first went active with a naxo and 6 135's the difference was staggering it was as though I had always been listening to the speakers from another room before 

it was the same sort of level as going from 32.5 to 52/PS

Mana Brik stands was another game changer 

lyndon

 

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Allante93
lyndon posted:

Alliante93

now I understand 

you have the newer crossovers compared to my old briks so I don't know how much difference that makes

but when I first went active with a naxo and 6 135's the difference was staggering it was as though I had always been listening to the speakers from another room before 

it was the same sort of level as going from 32.5 to 52/PS

Mana Brik stands was another game changer 

lyndon

 

Yes, Lyndon, that's something you can't explain to individuals who haven't  been Active. 

But like Lawrence Dickie, and others have pointed out, with Computer technologies being applied to modern crossovers in Modern Speakers, the Gap has been Narrowed. 

But don't tell that to DB, and others who have 30K Speakers and have chosen to take the XO out of the equation! 

I WONDER WHY????????

Enjoy your Music, The Why! 

Allante93! 

PS. I surfed HH's System Pics, and Notice a lot of members of the 500 Club has Activated those SL2s, they must be something special, not to mention the 3 way Dibbles! 

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Adam Zielinski
kevin J Carden posted:
Erich posted:
Adam Zielinski posted:

I always spend 100% of my h-fi budget on my hi-fi 

I don't remeber how much I spent in each piece but I'm almost sure that in total was about the same as you, 100%.

I admire your restraint gents. I always end up about 200%+...!

More objectively re this  thread I'm aware that me speakers are less then 12%  at current replacement prices . Has me wondering if I should be thinking of replacements or whether the logic really applies. So much depends on how the the speakers work in the room. 

 

Kevin - of course you should not change your speakers just becuse they cost 'too little' in % terms. Whatever works, whatever works... That's the mpost important thing.

This thread was meant as an attempt at a joke, and should be treated as such - even the OP wrote it.

Posted on: 13 June 2017 by Innocent Bystander
Adam Zielinski posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
Erich posted:
Adam Zielinski posted:

I always spend 100% of my h-fi budget on my hi-fi 

I don't remeber how much I spent in each piece but I'm almost sure that in total was about the same as you, 100%.

I admire your restraint gents. I always end up about 200%+...!

More objectively re this  thread I'm aware that me speakers are less then 12%  at current replacement prices . Has me wondering if I should be thinking of replacements or whether the logic really applies. So much depends on how the the speakers work in the room. 

 

Kevin - of course you should not change your speakers just becuse they cost 'too little' in % terms. Whatever works, whatever works... That's the mpost important thing.

 

Indeed. If you love the way your system sounds, why change anything, whether your speakers cost £20k or £200. Likewise with the source, or any other component. But if the sound is in some way less than satisfying, then just maybe a much lower proportion of cost on one part of the system than seems normal might suggest an area worth considering if it is that that is limiting the system. 

Posted on: 14 June 2017 by hungryhalibut
kevin J Carden posted:
Erich posted:
Adam Zielinski posted:

I always spend 100% of my h-fi budget on my hi-fi 

I don't remeber how much I spent in each piece but I'm almost sure that in total was about the same as you, 100%.

I admire your restraint gents. I always end up about 200%+...!

More objectively re this  thread I'm aware that me speakers are less then 12%  at current replacement prices . Has me wondering if I should be thinking of replacements or whether the logic really applies. So much depends on how the the speakers work in the room. 

 

I saw some Diapasons for sale at £6,000. They'd be good, and a bargain too. 

Posted on: 14 June 2017 by kevin J Carden
Hungryhalibut posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
Erich posted:
Adam Zielinski posted:

I always spend 100% of my h-fi budget on my hi-fi 

I don't remeber how much I spent in each piece but I'm almost sure that in total was about the same as you, 100%.

I admire your restraint gents. I always end up about 200%+...!

More objectively re this  thread I'm aware that me speakers are less then 12%  at current replacement prices . Has me wondering if I should be thinking of replacements or whether the logic really applies. So much depends on how the the speakers work in the room. 

 

I saw some Diapasons for sale at £6,000. They'd be good, and a bargain too. 

I don't think I could get Diapasons to work well in my room unfortunately HH. In fact I traded my old Hawks to  get the Obelisk 2's in order to better match the room.

If my room were bigger/better I think a few more options might be possible.

Posted on: 17 June 2017 by Brian D Hunt

Back to the topic. He is my allocation in %.

 

 Hi-Fi bought over many years. Allocation of funds at today's prices.