Just in case anyone else has made the same error!

If the CD input is attenuated, does that mean that putting a streamer on a different input would make it even louder?

Huh. I've always used the tuner input. My understanding is they are all the same. Shouldn't the manual indicate the presence of some technical difference among the inputs?

If the CD input is attenuated, does that mean that putting a streamer on a different input would make it even louder?

Or using the CD makes it lower?

Not sure, I have noticed that I can turn the volume knob right up to 12 o'clock position and never did this before. I owned a SN2 previously and didn't do this. Perhaps that I now live in detached house has something to do with that(less conscious about neighbour's).

Huh. I've always used the tuner input. My understanding is they are all the same. Shouldn't the manual indicate the presence of some technical difference among the inputs?

Haven't read that, not sure. 

A bit gutted though, I lived with a HDX into various Naim amps/pre for 5 years. All that time I could have experienced much better sound ��

As I understand it, all the inputs are the same. If the volume can be turned higher on the tuner input it goes directly against the idea that the CD input is attenuated. It's possible that the improvement is due to the effect of cleaning the pins on the din plug when moving sockets. It's good practice to clean all connections every six months or so by plugging and unplugging - twenty times for each plug is said to be a good idea. 

The single inputs should be the same - only earlier pre-amps may have had attenuation (if NA328/528 boards were fitted).  As HH says, just unplugging and replugging can make a big difference as this cleans the contacts.

Is there a risk of overdoing the unplugging and replugging? I'm thinking that twenty times for each plug, for each periodic 'clean', as suggested by HH, might soon loosen the fit between the DIN plug pins and sockets?

ray sheldon posted:

A bit gutted though, I lived with a HDX into various Naim amps/pre for 5 years. All that time I could have experienced much better sound ��

If it is simply due to deterioration of electrical contact, and given that evidently there wasn't a sudden step-change in sound, it would have been progressive and not go back that far, though clearly would have been worsening for some time before it reached the point where you first became aware that it didn't sound as good as you thought it should.

in five years' time you could try reverting to the CD input (or use another input), to give yourself the same boost in enjoyment as you have just had - infinitely cheaper than an upgrade!

nicetone posted:

Is there a risk of overdoing the unplugging and replugging? I'm thinking that twenty times for each plug, for each periodic 'clean', as suggested by HH, might soon loosen the fit between the DIN plug pins and sockets?

20 times is probably a bit much, although Jason may dispute that. I usually do the unplug/re-plug around 5 times once every couple of months or so. So long as you aim exactly right you should be fine. But, if you have a Hi-line then it can be a bit hazardous..

DIN plugs (or more correctly the sockets!) use a high pressure 'wiping' contact specifically designed to be self-cleaning.  Two insertion cycles every six months are more than enough to fully clean the contacts.

XLR and BNC sockets have a much lower contact pressure and may require more cleaning cycles, dependent on the plating material and environmental conditions.  13A power sockets do require multiple insertion cycles to clean them (and it's not that effective at cleaning them anyway).

Twenty insertion cycles seems to me obsessive, a periodic clean every six months compulsive.

All, Thanks for your input. 

I'm not sure that cleaning contacts is the reason behind this given that everything was new in March? NDX,SN,pmc 25.23, superlumina IC, 2 x PL. Only the naca A5 being a few years old. All sitting on fraimlite.  No wires touching or crossing one another. 

The difference was night and day when I switched inputs. Before: Aggressive, sharp, bright and in your face.

Now: A lot smoother, refined top end, clearer and overall much more enjoyable.  Actually sounds like an expensive system now. 

So, later I will plug back into CD input and compare a few tracks that I know well.

Richard Dane posted:

The single inputs should be the same - only earlier pre-amps may have had attenuation (if NA328/528 boards were fitted).  As HH says, just unplugging and replugging can make a big difference as this cleans the contacts.

I seem to remember from younger Naim days, that in the first preamps or in the Nait(s) the tuner input was connected primarily to the board, and the others in cascade from that one. This because Naim believed, and frequently stated, that in good reception areas the tuner 'could be the best source of all'. It could simply be that the tuner input is wired more directly to the preamp board.

CD

joerand posted:

Twenty insertion cycles seems to me obsessive, a periodic clean every six months compulsive.

In a previous life we had marine data loggers that had multi pin plug/socket with self cleaning contacts,  After consultation with the plug manufacturer the annual maintenance was for one disconnect & reconnect.   OK nothing wrong with two wipes,  but twenty ???    

You say you are using the SL Interconnect - was this inserted properly in the first place into the SN given the step change in SQ ?

My streamer is connected to the "tuner" input as well.

Crompton Divided posted:

Richard Dane posted:

The single inputs should be the same - only earlier pre-amps may have had attenuation (if NA328/528 boards were fitted).  As HH says, just unplugging and replugging can make a big difference as this cleans the contacts.

I seem to remember from younger Naim days, that in the first preamps or in the Nait(s) the tuner input was connected primarily to the board, and the others in cascade from that one. This because Naim believed, and frequently stated, that in good reception areas the tuner 'could be the best source of all'. It could simply be that the tuner input is wired more directly to the preamp board.

CD

Yes, going back to the days of the shoebox pre-amps the Tuner input was generally preferred because of a slightly more direct signal path.  Which makes sense because for most people the two primary sources in those days would be the turntable and the tuner.

JAMES,

Yes, pretty sure it was. I'm quite careful and you would know if you didn't get 5pins aligned into 5holes whikst fully inserting the plug.

Although I did blame the Lumia at first. After reading it had silver in it, I decided to remove it and put the lavender on instead.  If I'd known it had silver, I would have avoided it.

I've had a lot of poor experience with silver in cables in the past with non Naim kit. I wouldn't have lost anything in selling on as I got it free anyway!

The lavender improved the experience using the CD input(obviously took away some clarity which for me calmed down the brightness).

Once I'd used the tuner input using the lavender and heard the improvement, I put the Lumia back and now it's staying.

I wonder if those with streamer would connect to CD input, and see if your findings are the same?

Hi Ray - just thinking out loud and more from experiences with the Hi-Line with similar floating pin arrangements. It could sound 'off' if not fully inserted and then withdrawn very slightly. I'll be interested if you find the same difference now if you swap between inputs. Unless you have a fault with one of the inputs then they should really all sound the same. If it doesn't then try cycling the relevant inputs between DIN and RCA a few times to exercise the signal routing relays and see if that sorts it out. 

James

ray sheldon posted:

 

So, later I will plug back into CD input and compare a few tracks that I know well.

 

That is the obvious thing to do - just play something while connected to tuner input, then turn the physical volume control to zero and swap to the CD input, select it and return physical volume control to same setting: does it revert  to the bad sound you had before the swap that prompted this thread? If it does revert, then kill the volume again and pull the plug out and reinsert (in CD socket) a dozen times and try again. If it is still exactly as bad then either your amp does indeed have different input specifications or is faulty, whereas even a partial improvement suggests that a thorough clean of conracts could be worthwhile... 

Why a dozen times?  With a DIN plug once is enough and two insertions are more than sufficient to clean the contacts.

Huge posted:

Why a dozen times?  With a DIN plug once is enough and two insertions are more than sufficient to clean the contacts.

Simply overkill  to avoid saying try again two or three times if the first doesn't do it, while recognising the long static state and potential for worse oxidation. 

ChrisSU posted:

If the CD input is attenuated, does that mean that putting a streamer on a different input would make it even louder?

All the line outputs should be a standard of around 47kohms.????

Innocent Bystander posted:

Huge posted:

Why a dozen times?  With a DIN plug once is enough and two insertions are more than sufficient to clean the contacts.

Simply overkill  to avoid saying try again two or three times if the first doesn't do it, while recognising the long static state and potential for worse oxidation. 

Then you need to replace the plugs and sockets as you've worn through the plating.

ndx202- posted:

ChrisSU posted:

If the CD input is attenuated, does that mean that putting a streamer on a different input would make it even louder?

All the line outputs should be a standard of around 47kohms.????

That's the impedance, not sensitivity - however Richard did say he thought they should all be the same.