Canton Reference 3k or Elipsa Red with my Supernait 2?

S-400's. 

Budget ? Look at ATC SCM40 , ProAc D20R / D30 too.

crackie posted:

Budget ? Look at ATC SCM40 , ProAc D20R / D30 too.

Budget maximum €10.000

Do you know Sonus Faber Elipsa or Canton Reference 3K?

I'll have a look to your suggested loudspeaker

Proac D20R were the best speakers I heard on the end of my SN2. ATC SCM40 and Ovator 400 also great suggestions for tight, sealed bass, At your budget I'd be considering Magicos, Kudos and high-end Totems as well. All depends on what you have access to.

I'm not sure that making a jump to €10,000 'high level loudspeakers' is entirely a good idea with a Supernait, good as it is. The ProAc, ATC and Naim speakers mentioned by Joe are all half that price and much more appropriate, though the ATCs may be pushing things a bit. You also don't mention your source, which needs to be up to the quality of the amplifier and speakers. 

PPT posted:

I'm looking for new loudspeakers to be used with my Supernait 2. I want to do the big jump to high level loudspeakers.

Source(s)?

Indeed HH. I agree that suitable speakers for a SN2 could be had at (well less than) half the stated budget. Then, if so inclined, you could SL the system with the remaining funds.

Personally, I would go for a set of second hand Ovators. I've just made that move.

You wrote 'Punching basses, clear voices, great twitter and midrange.' Its precisely what they do. They won't go that low, though. But punchy they are.

And dump the remaining 7-8K in Sources & Hicap DR.

Maybe not what you want to hear, but it's Naim here. Focus on good amplification, most of the speakers will match well.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'm not sure that making a jump to €10,000 'high level loudspeakers' is entirely a good idea with a Supernait, good as it is. The ProAc, ATC and Naim speakers mentioned by Joe are all half that price and much more appropriate, though the ATCs may be pushing things a bit. You also don't mention your source, which needs to be up to the quality of the amplifier and speakers. 

Why you don't believe is a good idea? Supernait 2 not good enough for those loudspeakers?

Christopher_M posted:

PPT posted:

I'm looking for new loudspeakers to be used with my Supernait 2. I want to do the big jump to high level loudspeakers.

Source(s)?

Naim HDX and Project Carbon Debut turntable 

PPT posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'm not sure that making a jump to €10,000 'high level loudspeakers' is entirely a good idea with a Supernait, good as it is. The ProAc, ATC and Naim speakers mentioned by Joe are all half that price and much more appropriate, though the ATCs may be pushing things a bit. You also don't mention your source, which needs to be up to the quality of the amplifier and speakers. 

Why you don't believe is a good idea? Supernait 2 not good enough for those loudspeakers?

Quite. 

S-400's.

PPT posted:

I listened to Canton Reference 3K connected to a Supernait 2 and they sounded great.

And was this with your sources that you list above? If so, buy and be happy.

Buy the speakers that you like. You can upgrade the Supernait later if you want to. The Supernait 2 may be good enough for the speakers but there is always room for improvement with the higher level Naim amps ie. the separates. Alternatively you could stay happy with the Supernait 2 if it all sounds good.

Hungryhalibut posted:

PPT posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'm not sure that making a jump to €10,000 'high level loudspeakers' is entirely a good idea with a Supernait, good as it is. The ProAc, ATC and Naim speakers mentioned by Joe are all half that price and much more appropriate, though the ATCs may be pushing things a bit. You also don't mention your source, which needs to be up to the quality of the amplifier and speakers. 

Why you don't believe is a good idea? Supernait 2 not good enough for those loudspeakers?

Quite. 

I agree with HH.

You'll make better use of money by improving your sources.

By changing your speakers as proposed...
1     At best you just won't get the full benefit of the new speakers.
2     At worst you'll have a speaker that is too difficult a load and drags down the performance of the SN2's power amp.

Regarding sources ...

HDX is quite ok source, Project Debut Carbon is not on the level of SN.

When I hookup my Project Debut Carbon to my older Technics amp or my active Bose speakers in my office, it is fine. When I connect it to my SuperNait, all kind of crappy things get amplified. Especially the out of the box horrible switching mode powersupply making the motor to vibrate is likely to be victim of an act of aggression of myself.

I heard both. I'd go with the Sonus Faber myself. Bass is more defined, and timbre and harmonics are top notch. Detailled and sweet.   The Canton's bass will eventually reveal how boxy they sound. Your SN2 will drive them no problem.  You can eventually go with Naim separates later if you wish.

Thanks. I do agree on your consideration about future possibility to upgrade my amply by splitting pre and final.

when I heard Canton I didn't feel SN2 was suffering and sounded great. 

I should hear the Sonus Faber

The question was: Canton 3K or Elipsa Red? Not suggestions on a thousand alternatives. If that is the question, I say:

absolutely Canton 3K.

CD

Thanks CD.  Why do you prefer Canton 3k?

Crompton Divided posted:

The question was: Canton 3K or Elipsa Red? Not suggestions on a thousand alternatives. If that is the question, I say:

absolutely Canton 3K.

CD

If you actually read the original post properly, you'll see that after asking for any view on these two sets of speakers there are the words 'any other suggestions?'  Hence the suggestions. 

I need to improve both sources and loudspeakers and  in the future the ampli. If I never start doing this jump, I'll never improve the level of my hi fi.

I wonder what speakers you use at the moment. If they are good enough it may make more sense to improve your turntable first. You need to think about what your long term goal is. If for example it was the 282/250 it would (again depending on whether your current speakers are good enough) make sense to get these first, then try speakers at home with your system in place. Do you need the turntable to be as good as the HDX, or is it a minor source? 

If the deck needed to be as good you could get something like a Rega RP10 and a pair of speakers such as the Kudos C20 and you'd have a great setup, and could improve the amps later if you wished. 

Like I said, working out your goal will help you get there. 

I have a pair of Boston Acoustic very old. 

I've started upgrading the source (HDX) then my idea was buying loudspeakers, than turntable and finally replacing the SN2 which still is a good amply

PPT: I have had repeated chances to hear both SF Elipsa and Canton Reference (the 3 and 7 models) with a good Naim system (CDX2, XPSDR,282, SCDR, NAP300DR if that is good enough for them) and the 1s, but only with a very big and costly Octave multi-box amp system.

I like the Cantons more simply because they sound better. They are more linear, have real deep an controlled bass, a very homogeneous midrange up to the extreme treble, use house-made drivers of excellent quality and it's clear that every effort has been made to put on the market a series of loudspeakers with a cost/quality ratio almost unbeatable. If one looks at them, at how solid and well built are, their price tag seems almost convenient. And they sound good, even with more modest systems.

On the other hand, I stopped liking (and being interested into) Sonus Faber after 1995, when they first moved to the cheaper, but perfectly decent Concerto and Grand Piano series, to slowly build up to a splendid furniture company. Now there is not a single SF model I have liked of all the ones I've heard (with very good Naim systems) in the last 15 years at least. To my ears, they are always too full sounding, too easy on the ears, soft and condescending. It takes a Dan D'Agostino three-pieces system to make them sound acceptable; even Naim can't take that artificial, audiophile languorousness off them. But, of course, it's just my opinion, you asked for it and I am happy to oblige. FWIW.

HH: it's really impossible for you to comment something you don't agree with, or to correct what you consider a lack of precision or attention or whatever you call it, without sounding like a countryside Secondary School teacher.... You can't, it's beyond you. Thanks for remarking that I hadn't read the post completely, but only its main topic; you must have thought it was unacceptable. You are the one who always nails some 'read the manual' in reply to someone's post, aren't you?

CD