272 Active
Posted by: S3 on 23 June 2017
Has anyone heard a 272 based system in active configuration?
I have a 272, XPS DR and 250DR into SL2s so if I was to go down this route the simplest option (on paper) would be to add another 250DR, a Snaxo 242 and Hicap DR.
However I'm not sure if the 272 would be a capable enough source in that set up and, if not, it would then mean also adding something like a 282 with PS and NDX / NDS which then makes the whole thing ridiculously expensive!
So I'd be Interested to hear any experiences of an active 272 system.
Thanks
David
Intrigued by the discussion on the Dyn 600 XD's I went to have a look at the reviews and found a really interesting discussion about rooms and speakers which would seem applicable to us all: https://www.computeraudiophile...eaker-review/?page=2 . I hope this doesn't break house rules as it helps with the basics of speaker, room, ear and brain interactions.
The speakers use no Naim 'sound' at all so it would then just come down to preference on sound and delivery. I'd be really interested to see if Naim take the Muso/Qb approach to full range speakers as the Qb sounds awesome for their size
Allante93 posted:Penarth Blues posted:Intrigued by the discussion on the Dyn 600 XD's
https://www.computeraudiophile...eaker-review/?page=2 .
I hope this doesn't break house rules as it helps with the basics of speaker, room, ear and brain interactions.
The speakers use no (Naim 'sound') at all so it would then just come down to preference on sound and delivery.
I'd be really interested to see if Naim take the Muso/Qb approach to full range speakers as the Qb sounds awesome for their size
Well, this is a Naim Forum, and I Knew it was coming.
Active Speakers vs Active Systems
Active Systems~ Linn/Naim
Took a peep at the rather lengthy the Article!
Of Course, the CONCLUSION is bias, based upon the Reviewers EARS.
But the following paragraphs really caught my attention, being an Old School Active Fan!
" The 600 XD amplification is silent. I can hear the faintest of hiss if I put my ear right up to the tweeter. The first feature I immediately grew accustomed to, is when the speakers are in sleep mode and sense a signal present, automatically turn on to the last level they were set at.
What a convenience! My previous tri-amped active speaker system had me turning on/off 6 separate amplifiers every time I wanted to listen to music.
If one is looking for a small footprint, “all in one” active loudspeaker system that can be easily integrated into one’s listening environment and accurately reproduce music both in the frequency and time domain, the Dynaudio 600 XD does an excellent job."NigelB posted:
"On the plus side, active operation, no passive crossover, no interconnects, no speaker cables and arguably a purer, simpler signal path.
On the negative side, DACs and amps all crammed into the speaker enclosure."
Yeah, Back in the Day Linn crammed it's Amps into the Back of their Reference Speakers. Nearly thirty years later, Linn's Exakt technologies are capturing the digital signal and using the dacs within their External Aktiv XO.
In Short, I think I will give No Quarter a Visit, and use my own Ears! LOL..
Naim Fraim
Naim Core
Naim 272
Silent No Humming Amps Crammed in 2016 Active Speaker of the Year!
Sounds like (someone) did their Homework!
Nice job!
(Allante93!)
Typo
PS. Can't spell my own Naim!
Allante93 posted:sets the definitive performance standard for high-end digital active loudspeakers.Dynaudio › dynaudio-academy › februaryFeb 17, 2016 - The Focus 600 XD is the flagship in our Focus XD series, and it redefines the high-end audio system by being the ...
Hmmmm... here I am ready to buy Linn Exakt speakers Only to learn these exist at 1/4 the price. I guess I'll have to give 600's a listen. My real question is why they use RCA IC and not BNC. Linn uses Ethernet.
Not sure whose award of active speaker of the year 2016 that is, nor what the contenders were - speakers newly released in 2016, or all speakers available in 2016, or ones submitted to the awarding body for evaluation. Also, given that these include DACs but to the best of my awareness the vast majority of active speakers do not, then I suspect they would not have been considering performance of the DAC stage. Without that info the award needs to be treated with circumspection, and not take it to mean it is the best active speaker available without knowing if that was the basis of the evaluation. (THis does not mean they aren't good - I have no idea, and they may be).
but as always, the proof of the pudding is in the eating - and the price of these is remarkably low if they are as good as they claim to be.
Might be the 600XD are the most underrated active speaker of 2016. Awards and accolades mean absolutely nothing without a proper demo and assessment from the most important awarding body on earth. And you know who that is!
Gentleman in the world we live in, there is usually a relationship between price and quality.
And for the money, the 272 is worth it's weight in gold.
Furthermore, I agree with The Big Fish, If one decides to go Active, and use the Analog Snaxo, bare minimum 282.
But, you must admit, No Quarter Thought it out.
Naim Front End, and Dynaudio rear!
Can't be that bad!
Core, 272, XPSDR
The 3 Box Wonder!
But Remember, there no substitute for hands on experience!
Your Own Ears!
Allante93!
I'm not sure where that third paragraph comes from. It's certainly not something I've ever said. An active 272 would be just fine, I'm sure.
The benefit of active is in the direct drive and control of the speakers, without having to pass through an array of time delaying/phase shifting and impedance changing components in the passive crossover, plus reduction in any intermodulation distortion in the power amps,so should improve the sound almost regardless of preamp and source before the active crossover and power amps. Of course, as ever it can't sound better than the input signal, so if a 282 sounds better than a 272 through a non-active system then the same will be true of the active system.
Just to be clear,I have ordered a Naim Core,it is not in my set up yet.In the meantime,my dealer has let me borrow a Nordost Q base 8 and a Q Kore for a home demo.I had to move to an apartment,so I am limited to one (2 plug) receptacle behind my rack,there are no filters in this system,and it acts as a portable grounding system.It is supposed to add musicality while lowering the noise floor,not that I have noise now.I plan to install these items later today,I will report my thoughts after a few days.
Hungryhalibut posted:I'm not sure where that third paragraph comes from. It's certainly not something I've ever said. An active 272 would be just fine, I'm sure.
My mistake, HH!
Hungryhalibut posted:One of the reasons I bought my setup was because I didn't want lots of boxes and wires. Since getting the SL2s I've thought about the active option a couple of times. But it would mean three more boxes, at least two - and ideally three - more shelves, two more mains leads, which would entail a mains block as I only have two sockets,
(Agree~ to expensive)
and because I use Super Lumina wires I'd need another din to XLR and a pair of longer speaker cables, as my 3m set wouldn't reach the sockets with the crossover removed. So that's at least £10,000.
(With SL, even more expensive)
{The other issue of course} is that because I'm not working I have no money
(So Far, Active is Expensive)
...... Should I ever have a windfall and wanted to improve the system, I'd more likely go the 300 and 555PS route, which would not require more sockets and speaker leads, though I'd need a pair of SL din to XLR leads.
===========$$$$$$=============
Being an old fart I've always believed that you should only go active once you've got the very best passive setup
,((( and with a 272 there may be a light whiff of mullet in the air.)))
One could argue of course that SL2s on a 272 does have a slight whiff already. I was listening to Andräs Schiff playing Beethoven piano sonatas earlier today and the sound was just fantastic and the systems we are so fortunate to own really are extraordinarily good. One thing I do have though is the SL cables and AQ Vodka Ethernet wires, both of which really added to the incredible sense of rightness I get when I listen to music. It could be something to think about.
The point I was trying make, when exploring HH's Systems Pics, I' ve noticed the (majority) of the Active Systems belong to the 500 Club.
Only improving on those beautiful SL2s, by trashing the internal XO, located within the bias Box!
That's All!
And to HH's point, I also believe, that one should only go active once they've gotten the very best passive setup!
Why?
Because the Benefits gained by removing the Phase distortion, which is incumbent in the most expensive Speakers, are only enhanced by a superior Pre-Amp.
Enjoy Your Music!
Allante93!
Innocent Bystander posted:The benefit of active is in the direct drive and control of the speakers, without having to pass through an array of time delaying/phase shifting and impedance changing components in the passive crossover, plus reduction in any intermodulation distortion in the power amps,so should improve the sound almost regardless of preamp and source before the active crossover and power amps. Of course, as ever it can't sound better than the input signal, so if a 282 sounds better than a 272 through a non-active system then the same will be true of the active system.
+2
I've since some weeks Active Ovator S600's. Snaxo BMR / Hicap DR / 2x Nap 200s. Saving pennies to front this setup by a n272 or so.
My current front is very, very simple: cd5i / av2 pre-amp. I've also connected my supernait to use it's preamp stage.
I've changed too many things in one go, but I think that the active setup has strongly improved my system. Especially complex music - which I tend to listen - gets much more transparent. Think of complex baroque music like full monty preludes / fuges by Bach. On many systems this 'wall of sound' gets 'soup'. Not here despite the entry level source / pre-amp. Solid bass does not drag down the high tones of the music.
I think that the Active setup does improve the system regardless the sources.
One thing: I discovered some recordings which I liked before and I don't like them anymore since it is quite revealing the bad recordings. Its the first time I experience that. I did not experience that when I added a Hicap DR to my supernait.
I can conclude that the active setup is a bigger improvement that adding a Hicap DR to the Supernait.
Now adding some more euros to the piggy bank for the n272 ...
I'm sure, 555ps is total overkill and not needed - I'm reallym really sure.
Ardbeg10y posted:
Now adding some more euros to the piggy bank for the n272 ...
I'm sure, 555ps is total overkill and not needed - I'm reallym really sure.
Not 'needed' I agree. But if you get to hear one on your system once you get your n272 you might well 'want' one
I have been listening tonight to some Bach cantata's conducted by Philippe Herrewege. It was a close to live experience. Every sniff or crack was clearly there. Music was very transparent. I knew the music already inside out but listning to relatively complex music on these Ovators gets really easy. I do ascribe that to the Active setup + BMRs. Such a change would normally be realized by a change in source, but I clearly have only - lets say - mediocre sources.
The question for me is now: why is my CD5i / Supernait + BW CM5's dusted by a CD5i / Av2 + Snaxo BMR / Nap 200 + Ovators. Is it the Active Setup, the BMRs, or both? (if Active Setup, I'm on topic).
Ardbeg10y posted:I have been listening tonight to some Bach cantata's conducted by Philippe Herrewege. It was a close to live experience. Every sniff or crack was clearly there. Music was very transparent. I knew the music already inside out but listning to relatively complex music on these Ovators gets really easy. I do ascribe that to the Active setup + BMRs. Such a change would normally be realized by a change in source, but I clearly have only - lets say - mediocre sources.
The question for me is now: why is my CD5i / Supernait + BW CM5's dusted by a CD5i / Av2 + Snaxo BMR / Nap 200 + Ovators. Is it the Active Setup, the BMRs, or both? (if Active Setup, I'm on topic).
Nothing like hands on Experience, you could imagine how the 282 sounded :
Not to mention the Active 500 Club!
Now you know why, I'm an Active Fan!
However, it comes at a Cost!
When it's all said and done, I think you could live with your current System!
But what do I know!
Enjoy your Music, The Why!
Allante93!
PS. Live, Bach in your Living-room!
Well, I'm also having a play with active, though in a more experimental way with other variables at present (reported in another thread about PMC & ATC). In due course I'll assess active vs passive on the PMCs, though amps will be different.
Can't comment on the 272 - never heard one. But I can comment on the scale of improvement that I heard when I took my SL2's active several years ago by adding an additional 250-2 (both were non DR) and a non DR Supercap powered SNAXO. very, very impressive - a bit of a game changer. Front end in my case was/is a Klimax LP12 and a 552