HDX hidef album and tag issues

Welcome to the beautiful, curious and ever so maddening world that is Naim meta data handling...!

Whilst it arguably could never have been described as a situation much more than rudimentary from birth for the HDX/NS/US range of products, the often rolled out excuses of the past few years have pointed to their ageing tech/software and the reality that, after 10 years, sooner or later they would be legacy products....Personally, I never really understood just why the software couldn't have been updated more comprehensively like any other piece of tech in the modern world, apart from the perceived lack of desire from Naim......

Upon the announcement of the Core, in particular as the new 'reference server', along with the new range of Units products I was really looking forward to moving my own US-SSD to secondary duties and finally having a Naim ripper/server with a modern UI and functions that reflected todays general software standards, with UPnP facilities that at the very least matched the competition and, ideally, took things further.......Alas, unfortunately, this hasn't really panned out....We have a nice new case that the ID dept must be thoroughly chuffed with themselves over, but as someone hilariously posted here a little back it's all something like 'rolling the old Ford Cortina out, buffing it up, applying a bit of body filler and finishing off with a cheap spray job...'..! From the few official bits and pieces that seem to drip feed out round the forum, Naim HQ still even seem to be deliberating whether (and even which..!) additional tags they may add to the meta-data edit functions of the Core.......Beggars belief. iTunes functionality it is not, let alone Minimserver et al .....

Like you, I was interested in the future reality of HD music, the downloads, the storage and the serving – the ripping side of the US naturally becoming a lesser used function going forward.....My 'presumption' was that  the Core was to take grasp of all this and be that server and hub in an all Naim environment......But, with the current meta-data handling functions of the Core, along with a couple of other software (and App) related issues, I personally, don't feel the Core represents serious consideration...or even a wise investment. I can only speak for myself, but my cash stopped right at the dealers door (actually that reminds me, must do something with that deposit!).....If I'm really honest about it all, the whole farce has actually somewhat damaged my feeling for the whole brand and has me now seriously treading water.....

I do feel for classical music fans with the current situation. I only have minimal amounts, but from my own personal gripe re lack of Album Artist tag support (as opposed to top level 'Artist' tag) as well as other 'missing' tag support/use, I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to not even have Composer etc etc for large classical collections......

If you have serious desire to move forward with HD music, I think you'll find many here will advise you look towards a NAS set up and then consider one of the much more capable UPnP solutions from 3rd party – Miminserver and Asset being two favoured options.....Sadly, unfortunately and very frustratingly, I dare say this will start the steady slide of your HDX towards a disused black box....

The OP sums up some of the issues. But the limitations could be seen as an opportunity.... sell the HDX, get an NDS and a nas and get better sound and greater flexibility and usability. 

I should also add that distributor and local support has been excellent.

Yes, that would be ideal, but there is the small issue of cost. The NDX with the current 555PSDR is the most likely solution.

You can solve the issues mentioned in your post (and some others) by running  MinimServer on a Raspberry Pi, a small computer or a NAS, as suggested by HH. In the latter case you will need a streamer to connect to your preamp. If you run MinimServer (or any other decent UPnP server) on a Raspberry Pi or on a small computer (FitPC makes very nice and well built devices), you will have the additional advantage of being able to run a renderer on the same device. Upmpdcli (https://www.lesbonscomptes.com/upmpdcli/) is a very simple and stable solution and will also give you access to internet radio, Tidal, Qobuz, if you fancy to try those services. MinimServer and upmpdcli give you a complete and very stable server + renderer solution with outstanding support for classical music at a negligible price. Control point can be any UPnP compatible app: Linn Kazoo, Lumin, etc. Unfortunately, the Naim app is not a UPnP control point as explained in a companion thread in this forum. If you go for a UPnP server + renderer solution, you will still be able to drive LAN UPnP renderers (and control them with the Naim app if these are Naim renderers) but you only need to add a capable DAC. A second hand Naim DAC, a Chord DAC are very popular choices. Best, nbpf

Hi SC, it looks as if there is a bit of emotion out there about the HDX, US/NS et al!.

I have a fault with n-Stream and whereby it crashes and I have sent many of the dumps to Naim, but no material feedback has been forthcoming, giving the impression that support is not a priority.

It is very annoying that there seems to be a question mark over the future of the HDX as it is a major investment.

Fortunately I have the HDX-SSD with a NAS and I have very recently installed Minim and I have a Qute. The SSD replaced an earlier problematic HDX, at Naim's expense, which was appreciated, and I am glad I made that decision. So I am on my third HDX, but I have had good support from Naim when there have been issues.

On the positive side I have two chrome series 250s that are around 30 years old and still going strong!

This wasn't a problem with my HDX because the limitations of Naim's proprietary tagging model drove me to dBpoweramp very quickly, for music not ripped by the HDX, such as DVD-A rips and downloads. Problem solved. Insight gained into why the HDX sometimes seemed flustered when indexing, and eventually a move away from HDX to NAS/Asset/NDS - although that was primarily for improved sound quality. And retrospectively putting proper tags in around a thousand albums which were ripped by the HDX.

My understanding is that the new stuff more recently released hasn't moved away from this proprietary, "closed box" model. That's not good, if true.

Harry posted:

This wasn't a problem with my HDX because the limitations of Naim's proprietary tagging model drove me to dBpoweramp very quickly, for music not ripped by the HDX, such as DVD-A rips and downloads. Problem solved. Insight gained into why the HDX sometimes seemed flustered when indexing, and eventually a move away from HDX to NAS/Asset/NDS - although that was primarily for improved sound quality. And retrospectively putting proper tags in around a thousand albums which were ripped by the HDX.

My understanding is that the new stuff more recently released hasn't moved away from this proprietary, "closed box" model. That's not good, if true.

Unfortunately, that is true. There is no official method for exporting Naim rips and their metadata to an open format, see answers to question Nr. 1 in https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/uniti-core-technical-questions-and-answers. By using Naim's ripping software, one is locked into a proprietary metadata format with no export options and very limited editing capabilities.

Hi Harry,  thanks for your input. I have been using DBPoweramp for some time as well, but sometimes it has taken a while to sort out the issues I stumbled over along the way. As I have an active system, the sound quality had not really been an issue, although I am sure an NDS would be a significant step up.

One can never be certain. But I think the NDS would very likely surprise you in a good way. 

Not that you're suffering as you are.

I have yet to hear it, but I am sure you are right.

Another reason, of course for duplicate tracks, is duplicate albums! Unfortunately n-Stream does not list two albums but just the one. The last remaining album with duplicate tracks, was indeed a duplicated (downloaded) album. 

bobsp posted:

I have yet to hear it, but I am sure you are right.

Another reason, of course for duplicate tracks, is duplicate albums! Unfortunately n-Stream does not list two albums but just the one. The last remaining album with duplicate tracks, was indeed a duplicated (downloaded) album. 

Just edit the metadata so that the 2 albums do not have exactly the same name.

The trick is to realise you have duplicates in the first place in that many of the downloaded albums are in nested folders.

bobsp posted:

The trick is to realise you have duplicates in the first place in that many of the downloaded albums are in nested folders.

What has "being in nested folders" to do with "having duplicates"?

Sounds like a bit of housekeeping is in order. It doesn't take much to batch convert stuff and it's nice to see your music collection flip into a more sensible structure when you rescan.

I have a lot of versions of some of my favourite albums. I'm sure many of us do. You can have every version of every album sitting in the same folder and still have them indexed as separate albums, if the tags are correct. Sorting out which track is which might be, umm..... interesting! But hopefully fun.

These were just outright duplicates that I had not realised existed but now all fixed. There are some duplicates but they have different suffixes.

bobsp posted:

The trick is to realise you have duplicates in the first place in that many of the downloaded albums are in nested folders.

Hi,

I've not come across a situation yet where if duplicates are listed then there weren't duplicated files somewhere in the folder structure being scanned...

What usually confuses people is that they see the folder structures and don't generally see the tags whereas it's the tags that are used for indexing and when you have a collection of albums (it doesn't have to be a large collection either) then it's very easy to lose track of what you have where and it becomes much more of a 'needle in a haystack' to find incorrectly tagged / located files.

Cheers

Phil

OK Phil, I think I now agree with you. When I did the post, I had not found the duplicates despite looking long and hard and another very wise Naim man had suggested that the physical vs tag track number could be a problem. Indeed aligning them did seem to fix the problem, until it came back subsequently. I have now tried to reproduce the problem, but without success. Not for the first time I have made a fool of myself. However the issues with multiple albums created due to differing artists in the tags, still remains. Also if the JDX created two albums when it found duplicates, that would help!