Thread Closures - Uniti Discussions

Would appear they don't like the uproar..... 

I don't see it as aggressively or negatively as you seem to, Lord_Hillier. Naim responded to the "Uniti delayed" threads and updated their "progress announcement"  sticky thread with a clear status summary and an emotional reminder that they are all too aware of the situation and that they are working hard to adapt to a certification process that was much more difficult than their best estimates. It happens.

In closing one of the aforementioned threads, Richard wrote:

I'm going to close this thread as well as any others that are running in parallel. Please start a new one in future if you want to discuss further, thanks.

There isn't a conspiracy here in my view. Just a reminder to start discussions afresh in a new thread, which reinforces Trevor's request to stay civil and compassionate as the release date continues to approach and announcements of progress continue weekly or faster when there is real news. 

Best wishes to Naim on getting certs, programming the pre-built hardware, and selling the current stock of Atoms and Novas to an eager clientele; I remain hopeful that performance will meet or exceed our high anticipation and prove worthy of their efforts. 

Regards, alan

To be honest the thread closure has really got my back up. May be instead of worrying about 'demotivation' of their developers, they should invest in people capable of delivering the result they need? I'm certainly not swayed by the attempt to use emotive language in a plea to forum members to back off. Naim is a business - not a vulnerable individual.

I've talked about cancelling my order before - this has motivated me to do it today. I flatly refuse to be effectively told to shut up, by a business which has let me down - and for them to still expect my money....

If this post is viewed as insurrection - I'm happy for my membership of the forum to be terminated, as I intend to have no more to do with this brand....

Guys, let's not forget that providing a public forum on which anyone can post freely is not a given! Please consider that a lot of hifi manufacturers don't do this! A little bit more respect to Naim on this matter would be correct I think ...

As is your prerogative. 

However this is the Naim forum and in fairness they allow  a wide tolerance of criticism. 

The aforementioned threads had become a bit like beating the proverbial dead horse. 

.sjb

There were a number of threads open on basically what was the same topic - i.e. the new Uniti delay.  It was getting very hard to follow and communicate across multiple threads. Following Trevor's post of yesterday on the Uniti progress sticky thread, it was felt that it would be much better to have one thread on the subject so nothing could be missed.

p.s. You will note that the old threads are still there, have not been removed.

richardhomer posted:

To be honest the thread closure has really got my back up. May be instead of worrying about 'demotivation' of their developers, they should invest in people capable of delivering the result they need? I'm certainly not swayed by the attempt to use emotive language in a plea to forum members to back off. Naim is a business - not a vulnerable individual.

I've talked about cancelling my order before - this has motivated me to do it today. I flatly refuse to be effectively told to shut up, by a business which has let me down - and for them to still expect my money....

If this post is viewed as insurrection - I'm happy for my membership of the forum to be terminated, as I intend to have no more to do with this brand....

Richard, I think your sentiment reflect the views of many, and while I appreciate the posts from the MD/CEO they all appear to be a little raw. 

What makes this situation many times worse is that it's an expensive investment with wrap around kit, and to keep giving dates that slip is not good. For crying out loud why keep saying, Jan, Mar, Apr, May, second week in June, end of June.... Just say; "It ain't ready, and, may not be for many months to come". 

I have also said twice before that Naim need to control their Dealers, some have cash tied up, yet are fearful to cancel because of the Naim "Price Increase", that is a shocking way to leverage and instil brand loyalty and confidence. And then, there's the Dealer line of, "Well Naim are only releasing small batches and allocation will be very small".

What I find absolutely unbelievable is that my Dealer, very small but a great Guy, known him a number of years, advised me only on MONDAY that "The Naim Rep, said that the boxes were completely on track to be at Dealers by July 14th". How can that be possible?

Innocentbystander - makes sense but the thread was closed beforehand, the Google SEO has picked up the post, if you type in Naim Atom Delay it appears at the very tip of the search. Not good.

alan33 - My response is not agressive it's assertive. I value your points but cannot agree with your view.

Best

LH.

Richard Dane posted:

There were a number of threads open on basically what was the same topic - i.e. the new Uniti delay.  It was getting very hard to follow and communicate across multiple threads. Following Trevor's post of yesterday on the Uniti progress sticky thread, it was felt that it would be much better to have one thread on the subject so nothing could be missed.

p.s. You will note that the old threads are still there, have not been removed.

Call me cynical Richard but..

Klout10 posted:

Guys, let's not forget that providing a public forum on which anyone can post freely is not a given! Please consider that a lot of hifi manufacturers don't do this! A little bit more respect to Naim on this matter would be correct I think ...

Where do you see lack of respect, precisely? Specific criticisms are certainly helpful to Naim and, finally, to their customers. Generic criticism, indulgence or complacence, by contrast, do not bring any further, I am afraid. Best, nbpf

richardhomer posted:

To be honest the thread closure has really got my back up. May be instead of worrying about 'demotivation' of their developers, they should invest in people capable of delivering the result they need? I'm certainly not swayed by the attempt to use emotive language in a plea to forum members to back off. Naim is a business - not a vulnerable individual.

I've talked about cancelling my order before - this has motivated me to do it today. I flatly refuse to be effectively told to shut up, by a business which has let me down - and for them to still expect my money....

I'm puzzled at the vehemence of the OP's and your feelings on the closure of the threads, as although they have been closed to further comments they are still there for all to read or refer back to, and whilst understanding has been asked for, my understanding is that there it is still possible to start a thread for anything new (subject of course to the usual rules re expected decency of behaviour).

one thing I have observed is that with software it is not uncommon for delays to extend in ways unexpected by the manufacturer, sometimes for many months - that goes for anything from Microsoft to small-time software writers - and Sometimes the certification stages can be very involved and time consuming, with problems thrown up each adding to delay.

Yes, Naim would have npbeen better not announcing a release date for any of the range until the spcertification stage was well under way, ideally complete - but there is always a difficult balance between the needs of marketing to be most effective and the risk of delays.

Lord_HIllier posted:

Richard Dane posted:

There were a number of threads open on basically what was the same topic - i.e. the new Uniti delay.  It was getting very hard to follow and communicate across multiple threads. Following Trevor's post of yesterday on the Uniti progress sticky thread, it was felt that it would be much better to have one thread on the subject so nothing could be missed.

p.s. You will note that the old threads are still there, have not been removed.

Call me cynical Richard but..

You are very, very cynical.

Cheers

Don

richardhomer posted:

To be honest the thread closure has really got my back up. May be instead of worrying about 'demotivation' of their developers, they should invest in people capable of delivering the result they need? I'm certainly not swayed by the attempt to use emotive language in a plea to forum members to back off. Naim is a business - not a vulnerable individual.

I've talked about cancelling my order before - this has motivated me to do it today. I flatly refuse to be effectively told to shut up, by a business which has let me down - and for them to still expect my money....

If this post is viewed as insurrection - I'm happy for my membership of the forum to be terminated, as I intend to have no more to do with this brand....

I'd like to say you'll be missed, but..............!

Innocent Bystander posted:

one thing I have observed is that with software it is not uncommon for delays to extend in ways unexpected by the manufacturer, sometimes for many months - that goes for anything from Microsoft to small-time software writers - and Sometimes the certification stages can be very involved and time consuming, with problems thrown up each adding to delay.

Yes, Naim would have npbeen better not announcing a release date for any of the range until the spcertification stage was well under way, ideally complete - but there is always a difficult balance between the needs of marketing to be most effective and the risk of delays.

No doubt the big lesson for Naim to learn from this is to wait until after they have achieved certification and then and only then, announce a new product.

The alternative would appear to be to announce a potential new product, with a forecast delivery date but no guarantee for that date. Pre-orders taken at the latest  pre-order price (which could rise) with a clear policy that refunds will be at the pre-order price pertaining at the time of refund.

Windows NT and 'Longhorn' were both more than two full years late, and 'Longhorn' (when launched as Vista) had only about half of the development advances that were proposed in the original specification.

Apple's implementation of memory protection in their system was more than four years late.

Certification is sometime a very difficult step as you are dependent on a 3rd party who can delay you for months without notice or giving any reason.  These delays could be due to Apple or Google or any other outside company from whom certification is being sought.

We don't actually know for certain whether or not the cause of these delays even lies at Naim's door!

I feel Naim's pain regarding the whole certification process/ software development.  

My own personal grievance is with their communication approach to the ongoing delays.

I found this Naim forum by chance trying to understand more on what was going on with the delay after a google search.  I it was not something I was referred to by a dealer or any social media link. 

So upto the last few weeks, I was purely relying on dealer updates/ emails to Naim which were inconsistent at best and without a lot of facts attached.  Appeared more like rumour and hearsay which proven in the end to be correct.

I have now begin to rely on Naim's own communication from this forum and I would urge the Naim members of the team to talk with one voice across all your communication channels using a single source.

I know time delays/ lapses happen, but surely not that hard to create one email distribution list for all pertinent email parties and someone does a copy and paste across all your forms of communication (twitter/ Facebook/ Naim forum).

Although the communication was pessimistic yesterday, at least it was honest on not promising anymore delivery dates.  Like an alcoholic admitting they got a problem I should imagine!!

My glass might end up being even emptier than Naim's Uniti progress update but there does not feel like an end in sight just yet and feeling I will be lucky to pick up a new Uniti before the 1 year anniversary announcement date.

I would love to hear something different, but I am careful on what I wish for as do not want another broken promise.

So my only dilemma now is should I wait or cash in my deposit for my Naim Nova at end of 2016 and flip to an alternative option??  Or just wait it out haven waited so long.  Need some time to reflect...

Big John posted:

...

So my only dilemma now is should I wait or cash in my deposit for my Naim Nova at end of 2016 and flip to an alternative option??  Or just wait it out haven waited so long.  Need some time to reflect...

It seem to me that you need a plan rather than a decision. You could cash in your deposit without flipping to an alternative option. Start to actively demo alternatives while waiting for the Nova to be released. Demoing will anyway take some time and hopefully bring you new insights. These will likely help you understanding what you really want and whether to further wait (assuming that, by that time, the Nova is still in the waiting queue) of whether to go for an alternative.     

nbpf posted:

Klout10 posted:

Guys, let's not forget that providing a public forum on which anyone can post freely is not a given! Please consider that a lot of hifi manufacturers don't do this! A little bit more respect to Naim on this matter would be correct I think ...

Where do you see lack of respect, precisely? Specific criticisms are certainly helpful to Naim and, finally, to their customers. Generic criticism, indulgence or complacence, by contrast, do not bring any further, I am afraid. Best, nbpf

The lack of respect is seen in the criticism of Naim staff: 'they should invest in people capable of delivering the results they need' which is saying that current staff are not capable. 

Of course constructive criticism is helpful. But it's the banging on and on and on and on about the same thing over and over again that is not helpful. People waiting can either keep waiting or stop waiting and get something else. It's really not something to get worked up about. It's only a bit of Hifi. It's not like having a lifesaving operation delayed.

To put this another context, I just googled to see how the reviewer Malcolm Steward was recovering from his car accident of last year, this came up in the forum a while ago. I came across an article of how he was still waiting for a bed in a hospital in Devon, and could not talk, walk etc.

We will have our chance to listen to the new Uniti range soon enough, others are not so lucky. I hope someone has better more recent news on Malcolm, he was one that keenly followed new Naim products.

A sobering thought from Gazza. I think we all need to chill and listen to some music on whatever kit we are currently using, after all is that not what it's all about? I'm waiting for a Uniti Star, but am quite content listening to my LP12 / Rega Apollo and the Nait 2 I bought new more years ago than I care to remember!

Gazza posted:

To put this another context, I just googled to see how the reviewer Malcolm Steward was recovering from his car accident of last year, this came up in the forum a while ago. I came across an article of how he was still waiting for a bed in a hospital in Devon, and could not talk, walk etc.

We will have our chance to listen to the new Uniti range soon enough, others are not so lucky. I hope someone has better more recent news on Malcolm, he was one that keenly followed new Naim products.

I was wondering that - I'd enjoyed his writing since the Flat Response days. Googled and came across the Guardian article. Just awful. 

If I have to wait that's fine, clearly Naim want to get the products out. The only thing I'm unclear on is a vague timeframe. I appreciate Trevor can't give specifics but I'm now unclear if we are talking about another short delay, say two months or or another potential six month delay. I like to think if another major hickup has occurred this would be relayed. 

Ultimately I wish Naim well but it feels from Trevor's message a kind of expect the worst. Either way I'm sure everyones doing all they can and I will do my best to be patient and maybe check out a 272 in the meantime.

Hungryhalibut posted:

nbpf posted:

Klout10 posted:

Guys, let's not forget that providing a public forum on which anyone can post freely is not a given! Please consider that a lot of hifi manufacturers don't do this! A little bit more respect to Naim on this matter would be correct I think ...

Where do you see lack of respect, precisely? Specific criticisms are certainly helpful to Naim and, finally, to their customers. Generic criticism, indulgence or complacence, by contrast, do not bring any further, I am afraid. Best, nbpf

The lack of respect is seen in the criticism of Naim staff: 'they should invest in people capable of delivering the results they need' which is saying that current staff are not capable. 

Of course constructive criticism is helpful. But it's the banging on and on and on and on about the same thing over and over again that is not helpful. People waiting can either keep waiting or stop waiting and get something else. It's really not something to get worked up about. It's only a bit of Hifi. It's not like having a lifesaving operation delayed.

I understand. On the other hand, it seems to me that it is precisely that banging on and on and on and on about the same thing over and over again that has finally lead to some regular roadmap updates and to Naim starting to convey the impression that they have at least recognized some of the major software deficiencies of the new platform that have been repeatedly reported in the forum. Thus, it appears that "repetita iuvant", even if just a little bit too late. Of course, repetitions can be annoying. But if Naim had adopted a more aware and less dismissive tone from the very beginning, a good number could have been easily avoided, I believe. And it goes without saying that none really needs a new Hifi device, a new tablet computer, a new car, etc. and that, in a certain sense, we all are here to waste our time ...  

You guys should forget all about new streamers and stick to turntables, then you can enjoy the sound of a stuck record all day long.