Porsche N.A. flat six vs new turbo flat 4

Posted by: rsch on 01 July 2017

Here is my experience from a very recent Porsche ownership prespective.

After a long series of Lous Elises, Exiges and an Evora. i migrated to Porsche word. 

I began the experiment last week with a pre owned 2013 Boxter 981 2.7. The car is pretty much in basic configuration with manual gearbox, 18 wheels, no Pasm, nor PTV or Sports Chrono ( I can' t figure why most of them are configured with the most useless gimmickry like heated seats & steering wheel, upgraded infotaiment and hi fi and lack with the most important techical parts like PASM, PTV, Sports exhaust and so on.

At the same time i test drove a Cayman 2.0 300ps with PDK, PASM, Sport Chrono and standard exhaust.

Well, despite i reckon my 2.7 6 pot sounds good,  especially past 4,5/5k, the new 4 even at idle, has quite a pretty characterful note which hardens beautifully at higher revs.

I really don't see the point of such haste from press (especially Evo and Autocar). Mine up to 2.5 3k sounds pretty ordinary. In sport mode its got a very alert throttle response but  above 5k feels quite soft and slow. On the other hand the new 4 is very strong even at top end with  rev limiter at 7600 really really good for a car in this price bracket (ok, Mc Laren goes up to 8.5K)

On handling and steering dept, the new 718 is quite better with a 10% quicker rack, if equipped with 918 Sports wheel like the one i drove is better still. Mine is a bit lorry sized. I was also more inclined for the manual gearbox, now i found it a little below expectations while Pdk is very brilliant.

Another note, on the  718 Sport Chrono is really mandatory, at every change from normal, to sport and sport + there is a very noticeable change on throttle response and engine sound.

At the end i assume the 981 like a preparatory experience,( the poblem with a new one configured like i wanted, was a delivery well into next October ), so if you are considering a new one, forget all the press and forums rubbish, unless you are afeter a Cayman GT4 or 981 Spyder, go for the new one 

Hope this helps

Regards

Roberto

 

Posted on: 01 July 2017 by Tony Lockhart

Until January I had a 997 Gen2, Carrera 2. I heard a new flat four turbo for the first time a few weeks ago, and just didn't like it. I've no doubt as a complete package the new cars are 'better' than the old, but one of the core reasons for owning a Porsche sports car has been taken away from the Cayman and Boxster, in my opinion. 

Posted on: 01 July 2017 by tonym

18 wheels eh? Our cars have only got four. I'm envious!

Posted on: 01 July 2017 by Tony Lockhart

Probably handles like a truck

Posted on: 01 July 2017 by rsch

It's well known that hardcore Porschista are horrified at the idea of a downsized engine, however Le Mans Porsche winner 2016/2017 sported a 4 pot engine. Also i don't understand the snobism with Boxter/Cayman cars. In my opinion a real Sports car have to mid engined  for a perfect weight distribution, even esthetically wise i don't like the long 911's overhangs. 991 in fact has longer wheelbase and 911 racer is actually mid engined.

I meant 18 inches size of course

Regards

Roberto

Posted on: 01 July 2017 by Tony Lockhart

Have you heard the Porsche WEC car? Terrible. Boring. Dead. Fast? Incredibly fast. 

 

I've driven rear and mid-engined Porsches, and on the road, they're different. Anyone taking even a Carrera 2 to its cornering limits on a public road regularly will end up being fed through a tube, so mid engined with its inherent downsides is no magic solution. 

 

Thankfully theres a choice, and given the choice again I'd still choose a basic, used, non-turbo Carrera 2, maybe with a manual gearbox though. 

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by The Strat (Fender)

I now drive a 4 cylinder BMW320 turbo and once drove a 6 cylinder 320i.   The former is I'm sure by far the more efficient car but I would prefer the latter.  

Regards,

Lindsay

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by MDS

It seems to be a general trend among car manufacturers to squeeze more power, less fuel consumption and lower emissions out of smaller and smaller engines, and with reduced numbers of cylinders. I suppose that's a good thing but I've yet to hear or drive any four cylinder engine that can match the feel-good factor of a six.  For those who think of cars as akin to white-goods, simply functional appliances that make life easier, I suppose it doesn't matter. But it certainly does for those of us who appreciate cars.    

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by Tony Lockhart

To Bec fair on the manufacturers, it's not a trend, they're being forced to achieve better mpg. Customers don't want less power, so once you've turbocharged your engines the options are limited to hybrid etc. 

 

The Cayman and Boxster have no room for six cylinders AND turbo, so that was that. The new basic  911 Carreras are turbocharged sixes as they had the room. 

 

One or or two generations down the line, hybrids will dominate the range. I guess my old 997 will start to appreciate in price, what with its n/a engine and hydraulic steering. 

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by Resurrection

I have a Porsche Cayman S with most of the toys except PASM. it is the 6 cylinder version, not the new 4 cylinder twin turbo. I have driven the new Boxster S and did not much like what I was not hearing. It drove very well and is powerful but the muted engine noise makes it seem a bit weedy. 

Due to the car getting a service and an Open day at the local Porscye centre, I have had the chance in the last couple of weeks to drive a new 911 and a Cayenne. I thought I'd hate the Cayenne due to its size but was pleasantly surprised once I got it on the road. It was the 4 litre diesel and it can shift. The 911 was pleasant though again a bit muted but certainly sounded better than the Boxster S. However, I believe the 911 is still 6 cylinders. 

Have had the Cayman to France several times now where it's looks and sound have been much appreciated by the locals. When I went to pick up my own cat after the service it was parked alingsude what I initially thought was an identical model with the identical colour. However, it was a 911 and nowhere near as pretty. 

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by winkyincanada

The mileage benefits of the small turbo engines is generally overstated. Basically they are tuned to get good scores in the statutory tests but in real world driving they aren't really any more efficient than the normally aspirated engines.

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by Tony Lockhart

Agreed. I'll try and find some info. Remember the BMW i8? 130mpg? Yeah right, try 35....

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by winkyincanada
Tony Lockhart posted:

Agreed. I'll try and find some info. Remember the BMW i8? 130mpg? Yeah right, try 35....

If that. Oh yeah, don't get me started on plug in hybrids! They are a transparent scam. They do half the mileage test while draining their batteries and only the last half is valid. But the consumption is averaged.

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by The Strat (Fender)

A guy locally drives around in a pristine BMW635CSi.   Now would I like that car

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by Harry

We have two BMWs side by side on the drive. Helen's is a N/A 4.8 V8. Mine is a twin turbo 4.4 V8. Compared to the response and delivery of the N/A V8, my engine is half as nice to push along. The performance is devastating. The delivery is dim witted. I expect there is a technique and one day I'll perfect it. I've only been driving it for a year!

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by DBS-Al

I agree with MDS above,  smaller engines with a turbo on, less emissions and better economy. It's the way things seem to be going. The wife of a good friend of mine drives a VW Polo 1.2  ( 2011 ) and it takes it about 3 weeks to get to 60mph. That's all well and good until you need to overtake something for whatever reason. She really has to rev it to get anywhere and because of that the economy suffers, a chap down the road from me has a Skoda Yeti 1.2 turbo. Same story. Another bloke near me has an old BMW 5 series which chucks out more exhaust fumes than you could imagine and yet I pay a premium in road tax for my Aston DBS and similarly for the wife's Audi RS6. So how is that fair ?

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by Tony Lockhart

Fair? I'm not aware of anyone saying it was fair. Ever.  

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by hungryhalibut

We are very happy with our VW Up! No need to compensate for inadequacies in the trouser department. 

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by ChrisSU
rsch posted:

I meant 18 inches size of course

Regards

Roberto

I'm embarrassed! I read the whole thread up to here before I even realised you were talking about toy cars. 

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by Resurrection

Of course all this macho Porsche stuff dors not come cheap. A service, admittedly with spark plugs replaced, but that's about it, cost me £1,000. Road tax is £285. Tyres are £250 a pop  if you're lucky, but Insurance, which I have just renewed, was £224 for myself, my wife and my sons fully comprehensive.

And the latest expense has been replacement garage doors as the bolt connecting the side the Porsche inhabits has sheared from the fibreglass door itself. Of course the new ones have to be power driven. In fact the Porsche is stuck in there at the moment  while I await door installation because I am nervous about the broken one landing on top of it 

Still, the 8 year old BMW 325D just runs and runs at a continuous 36 mpg and never sees the inside of the garage as its side is where all the gardening gear lives.

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by DBS-Al

Hungryhalibut,

VW Up!  Great little car, my friends daughter has one. Driven it a few times and found it comfortable, relatively quiet and roomier than you might think, the usual high standard of finish you'd expect from VW so no rattles or squeaks. I was rather impressed with it 

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by MDS
DBS-Al posted:

I agree with MDS above,  smaller engines with a turbo on, less emissions and better economy. It's the way things seem to be going. The wife of a good friend of mine drives a VW Polo 1.2  ( 2011 ) and it takes it about 3 weeks to get to 60mph. That's all well and good until you need to overtake something for whatever reason. She really has to rev it to get anywhere and because of that the economy suffers, a chap down the road from me has a Skoda Yeti 1.2 turbo. Same story. Another bloke near me has an old BMW 5 series which chucks out more exhaust fumes than you could imagine and yet I pay a premium in road tax for my Aston DBS and similarly for the wife's Audi RS6. So how is that fair ?

The sound of a DBS's engine, ah! I could listen to that delightful growl all day  

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by Tony Lockhart
DBS-Al posted:

Hungryhalibut,

VW Up!  Great little car, my friends daughter has one. Driven it a few times and found it comfortable, relatively quiet and roomier than you might think, the usual high standard of finish you'd expect from VW so no rattles or squeaks. I was rather impressed with it 

A current VW with decent build quality? Shhhh, don't tell VW, they'll want to give it a recall to bring it down to the usual standard. 

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by stuart.ashen

Nigel, I have an Up too! Great little thing for poodling around which is mostly all I do. Cheap to buy and run, and the money I save can go towards the hi fi/music/curry etc!

As for the trouser department......

Stu

Posted on: 02 July 2017 by Bruce Woodhouse
MDS posted:
DBS-Al posted:

I agree with MDS above,  smaller engines with a turbo on, less emissions and better economy. It's the way things seem to be going. The wife of a good friend of mine drives a VW Polo 1.2  ( 2011 ) and it takes it about 3 weeks to get to 60mph. That's all well and good until you need to overtake something for whatever reason. She really has to rev it to get anywhere and because of that the economy suffers, a chap down the road from me has a Skoda Yeti 1.2 turbo. Same story. Another bloke near me has an old BMW 5 series which chucks out more exhaust fumes than you could imagine and yet I pay a premium in road tax for my Aston DBS and similarly for the wife's Audi RS6. So how is that fair ?

The sound of a DBS's engine, ah! I could listen to that delightful growl all day  

My car just burbled/roared all the way down to Essex and back this week during a few days off. Never missed a beat (or a petrol station). Nothing beats the sound of a V8 in my book.

As a 1972 car I pay no road tax-which is probably very good news as I dread to think of the C02 emissions!

Posted on: 03 July 2017 by DBS-Al

That is one tidy looking Stag Bruce.