Porsche N.A. flat six vs new turbo flat 4

Tony Lockhart posted:

 

What argument? You've slated something and not come up with an alternative at all. Oh sorry, you've suggested giving the money to charity. Well a car would still be required, so I suppose the op could then sell his Naim, then house, maybe a kidney and an eye? Give all the proceeds to charity?

No, not everyone likes Porsche. So what? Many hifi lovers detest Naim, but so what? I'm guessing you're bitter about something in your life.  

Tony, chill out, with all that aggravation in your post people might actually think you're bitter about something in your life.

As to your first paragraph, I wouldn't go so far as to suggest selling your kidney. And with a little bit of calm thinking on your part you might actually grasp what I was getting at. 

Anyways, I leave you all to it, discussing first world problems, the really important stuff, you know...

Cheerio, what a wonderful world

C'mon kids, we're talking about expensive toys, nothing remotely sensible or life threatening. Am now so disturbed I'm looking at the local Porsche website on top Wilson Benesch Act Ones or B&W 803 D3s. Life's a game of stretching out for what is just beyond our reach and in doing so sometimes it falls into our grasp. As long as avarice or envy does not intrude, it can be quite good fun.

I think Porsches are nice cars, though they are way out of my league, other than that ridiculous Cayenne monstrosity. There are lots where we live - only one Cayenne, and the guy who owns it is really short and has a very small house, so clearly he has issues - though most are quite old and only go out at the weekend. Rather like their owners generally. As well as our Up! we have a Golf Sportsvan. It has a 1.4 turbo engine and goes like shit off a shovel. I can only imagine what a Porsche must be like. If we won the premium bonds I'd think about one, though an Audi TT gas a greater appeal somehow, I'm not sure why. 

I think that the new engines are the right way to go – they are more efficient in terms of the combination of bhp, usable torque, emissions and fuel economy than the previous 6 cylinder ones as far as I know. A Porsche is way beyond what I can afford, but its nice to look at the brochures and youtube videos of people driving them. If I won the pools I would be down the shop straight after clearing my mortgage to order a cayman S with a 4 cylinder engine. I think it’s the ideal combination – mid engine layout, now with an engine that has a strong wide torque band. I much prefer a wide torque band than an engine where you have to rev it to get the power (e.g. honda vtec).

I have no experience of Porsches (I wish I did!) but my car is a 2015 fiesta ST, with an engine that has the same design philosophy as the new 4 cylinder Porsche engines – small engines with direct injection and lightweight fast spin-up turbos resulting in lots of usable torque. Its great fun to drive, is cheap to run and gives good fuel economy for the bhp. Safe overtaking is easy because of the torque. I used to have a 2.8 litre golf and the fiesta’s engine is better in every way I can think of. The only possible down side to this new types of engine I can think of is its possible longevity – a great big lazy engine might be more long lived than a small engine in a much higher state of tune, but only time will tell.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I think Porsches are nice cars, though they are way out of my league, other than that ridiculous Cayenne monstrosity. There are lots where we live - only one Cayenne, and the guy who owns it is really short and has a very small house, so clearly he has issues - though most are quite old and only go out at the weekend. Rather like their owners generally. As well as our Up! we have a Golf Sportsvan. It has a 1.4 turbo engine and goes like shit off a shovel. I can only imagine what a Porsche must be like. If we won the premium bonds I'd think about one, though an Audi TT gas a greater appeal somehow, I'm not sure why. 

I totally agree with you about Cayenne and more so with the Chelsea tractor genre. I don't really see the point to drive with such an elevated driving position. On cars like BMW X5 or Merc ML you have actually to climb on it and land when you get out. However  Cayenne allowed Porsche to develop more niche GT models otherwise less viable financially. 

About Audi TT, it's quite a fine car very well built, S and RS version are mentally fast but at end of the day it's only a Golf derivative while Porsches are built on bespoke platforms and more important with mid engine layout.

In the 60_100k euro price bracket, i hardly see a better alternative. Lotus of course is the purest package for handling, more exotic materials and construction, but if you are after  something more refined with decent luggage space Porsche is a better alternative 

Of course if i could stretch up to 150/180k, today  my ideal weekend toy would be a Mac Laren  570S.

Regards

Roberto

rsch posted:

Of course if i could stretch up to 150/180k, today  my ideal weekend toy would be a Mac Laren  570S.

Regards

Roberto

Roberto, if you do stretch to a McLaren 570S, just be sure to keep away from any errant Badgers...

Just in case the point about badgers (tasso)  has missed Roberto-in-Milan   .............   

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-e...d-wiltshire-40476901

Moderated Post:  Mike, I've changed your link - the one you posted may cause issues for some users.

Richard Dane posted:

rsch posted:

Of course if i could stretch up to 150/180k, today  my ideal weekend toy would be a Mac Laren  570S.

Regards

Roberto

Roberto, if you do stretch to a McLaren 570S, just be sure to keep away from any errant Badgers...

And more so from boars 

Regards

Roberto

rsch posted:

Richard Dane posted:

rsch posted:

Of course if i could stretch up to 150/180k, today  my ideal weekend toy would be a Mac Laren  570S.

Regards

Roberto

Roberto, if you do stretch to a McLaren 570S, just be sure to keep away from any errant Badgers...

And more so from boars 

Regards

Roberto

And carry a bloody good fire extinguisher.

For some reason unknown to myself, we here in Swindon have been selected to have significant Porsche and Ferrari centres, plus they are directly across the road from one another. So, you can start in the poor man's store and step into GT3s or whatever then cross the road and see, occasionally, some real cars, such as a £2.6 million Ferrari La Ferrari, which I could not even attempt to climb into, but not because they were stopping me. It also has an upstairs where you can peruse classics such as McLarens or Mercedes, even Bristols. Apparently, so the salesman told me, people come in, have a quick look round and buy a selection just to stuff in an air conditioned physical portfolio with the hope of massive aporeciatiin and no capital gains tax.

Oh, and there is a Ford garage for the Fiesta  owner, just nowhere near those two. Also, God how we are indulged in this paradise of a town, on the first Thursday of every month a local hostelry allows its car park to be taken over by American muscle cars ranging from Mustangs to Cobras to 1950s Cadillacs and plenty of kit stuff as well. 

I missed my V8 sold it since was not driven much 

I have nostalgia for my last one

Regards

Roberto

rsch posted:

I totally agree with you about Cayenne and more so with the Chelsea tractor genre. I don't really see the point to drive with such an elevated driving position. On cars like BMW X5 or Merc ML you have actually to climb on it and land when you get out. 

Regards

Roberto

It depends on what use you put your vehicle to, as well as personal preference. For our family use Porsches or somesuch are about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Our X5 is superbly comfortable  on our regular long journeys from Suffolk to the Lake District. It holds all the paraphernalia we need, lots of room for our two dogs. The high driving position is a real plus as far as we are concerned, and during the winter the four-wheel drive is an added benefit (I've been on a transpennine road which has become alomst impassable in minutes due to sudden snowstorm). It's a damn sight easier to get in and out of than a normal car, particularly if, like me, you suffer from arthritis.

We've our Merc SL for the occasional pottering about on sunny days with the roof down, but it's just a toy really. Perhaps it's my age, but even given the increasingly rare opportunity to find oneself on a clear bit of twisty road, I do find I'd rather wend along gently than belt around. 

tonym posted:

rsch posted:

I totally agree with you about Cayenne and more so with the Chelsea tractor genre. I don't really see the point to drive with such an elevated driving position. On cars like BMW X5 or Merc ML you have actually to climb on it and land when you get out. 

Regards

Roberto

It depends on what use you put your vehicle to, as well as personal preference. For our family use Porsches or somesuch are about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Our X5 is superbly comfortable  on our regular long journeys from Suffolk to the Lake District. It holds all the paraphernalia we need, lots of room for our two dogs. The high driving position is a real plus as far as we are concerned, and during the winter the four-wheel drive is an added benefit (I've been on a transpennine road which has become alomst impassable in minutes due to sudden snowstorm). It's a damn sight easier to get in and out of than a normal car, particularly if, like me, you suffer from arthritis.

We've our Merc SL for the occasional pottering about on sunny days with the roof down, but it's just a toy really. Perhaps it's my age, but even given the increasingly rare opportunity to find oneself on a clear bit of twisty road, I do find I'd rather wend along gently than belt around. 

Kindred spirit, Tony! I can't get in my friends Audi TT (simply not high enough for my body) and can't get out of majority of these expensive mid-life/old-age crisis cars! I find our Mazda CX5 (like your X5) so easy to get in and out of, plus great visibility and driving position. My 'toy' is a Merc SLK, which is the only drop head I can get out of, and like you I tend now to drive at speeds I feel comfortable at (20+ years of pursuit driving got rid of most of the adrenaline urges!). 

Tim

I agree with what TONYM says about the use you put your vehicle to, if myself and the missus are out with friends or we are off down to Dorset for a few days ( which we do quite regularly ) and need to carry luggage then we take the RS6 as it can seat 4 comfortably, is good to drive in all weathers and has all the performance you could ever need. If we just fancy a days run up into the Yorkshire Dales then we will take the DBS. A totally different kettle of fish compared to the Audi but then that is to be expected.

Still comfortable, awesome performance and fun but only for the two of us.

DBS-Al posted:

I agree with what TONYM says about the use you put your vehicle to, if myself and the missus are out with friends or we are off down to Dorset for a few days ( which we do quite regularly ) and need to carry luggage then we take the RS6 as it can seat 4 comfortably, is good to drive in all weathers and has all the performance you could ever need. If we just fancy a days run up into the Yorkshire Dales then we will take the DBS. A totally different kettle of fish compared to the Audi but then that is to be expected.

Still comfortable, awesome performance and fun but only for the two of us.

DBS-Al posted:

I agree with what TONYM says about the use you put your vehicle to, if myself and the missus are out with friends or we are off down to Dorset for a few days ( which we do quite regularly ) and need to carry luggage then we take the RS6 as it can seat 4 comfortably, is good to drive in all weathers and has all the performance you could ever need. If we just fancy a days run up into the Yorkshire Dales then we will take the DBS. A totally different kettle of fish compared to the Audi but then that is to be expected.

Still comfortable, awesome performance and fun but only for the two of us.

Off to Brugge next week with the Cayman, just me and the wife. Next month she is taking the grandkids camping down to Devon using the BMW, which is the touring version. Me and the son are going to head up through Wales on a road trip, probably including the Black Mountain Pass  which I did earlier this year with my other son.  These are the t

DBS-Al posted:

I agree with what TONYM says about the use you put your vehicle to, if myself and the missus are out with friends or we are off down to Dorset for a few days ( which we do quite regularly ) and need to carry luggage then we take the RS6 as it can seat 4 comfortably, is good to drive in all weathers and has all the performance you could ever need. If we just fancy a days run up into the Yorkshire Dales then we will take the DBS. A totally different kettle of fish compared to the Audi but then that is to be expected.

Still comfortable, awesome performance and fun but only for the two of us.

Well, I stuffed the original reply, so I'll try again. Me and the wife are off to Brugge next week in the Cayman, we did Bayeux a couple of months ago. She's taking the grandkids camping to Devon next month in our BMW 325D touring which gives me and the son the opportunity to do a road trip through Wales, probably including the Black Mountain Pass, which I did earlier this year with my other son. Not sure how far we'll get but it'll just be boys with toys! 

That Porsche from - The Bridge  : )

Can't quite get what that colour actually is,

but i really like it.

Debs

I have a 986 Porsche Boxter 3.2 full leather spec with all the extra toys, absolutely love it, unfortunately last year I did 56 miles!!! 

The only good news, at least it's now starting to appreciate in value...

tonym posted:

rsch posted:

I totally agree with you about Cayenne and more so with the Chelsea tractor genre. I don't really see the point to drive with such an elevated driving position. On cars like BMW X5 or Merc ML you have actually to climb on it and land when you get out. 

Regards

Roberto

It depends on what use you put your vehicle to, as well as personal preference. For our family use Porsches or somesuch are about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Our X5 is superbly comfortable  on our regular long journeys from Suffolk to the Lake District. It holds all the paraphernalia we need, lots of room for our two dogs. The high driving position is a real plus as far as we are concerned, and during the winter the four-wheel drive is an added benefit (I've been on a transpennine road which has become alomst impassable in minutes due to sudden snowstorm). It's a damn sight easier to get in and out of than a normal car, particularly if, like me, you suffer from arthritis.

We've our Merc SL for the occasional pottering about on sunny days with the roof down, but it's just a toy really. Perhaps it's my age, but even given the increasingly rare opportunity to find oneself on a clear bit of twisty road, I do find I'd rather wend along gently than belt around. 

In my opinion, a decently sized estate is well up to family/all weather duties (BMW series 3/5)   less offeding for other road users and more eco friendly

Regards

Roberto

wenger2015 posted:

I have a 986 Porsche Boxter 3.2 full leather spec with all the extra toys, absolutely love it, unfortunately last year I did 56 miles!!! 

The only good news, at least it's now starting to appreciate in value...

 

I have a friend in Bruxelles who did 172 km since he took delivery in March last year if this can console you.

Regards

Roberto

rsch posted:

tonym posted:

rsch posted:

I totally agree with you about Cayenne and more so with the Chelsea tractor genre. I don't really see the point to drive with such an elevated driving position. On cars like BMW X5 or Merc ML you have actually to climb on it and land when you get out. 

Regards

Roberto

Talking about Chelsea Tractors, an ex colleague of mine - posh sales guy - living in Chelsea bought from his sales commission a Ferrari. It got delivered to his door and on his first ride he came to know that his street has on both sides speed humps which he was unable to pass.

rsch posted:

tonym posted:

rsch posted:

I totally agree with you about Cayenne and more so with the Chelsea tractor genre. I don't really see the point to drive with such an elevated driving position. On cars like BMW X5 or Merc ML you have actually to climb on it and land when you get out. 

Regards

Roberto

It depends on what use you put your vehicle to, as well as personal preference. For our family use Porsches or somesuch are about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Our X5 is superbly comfortable  on our regular long journeys from Suffolk to the Lake District. It holds all the paraphernalia we need, lots of room for our two dogs. The high driving position is a real plus as far as we are concerned, and during the winter the four-wheel drive is an added benefit (I've been on a transpennine road which has become alomst impassable in minutes due to sudden snowstorm). It's a damn sight easier to get in and out of than a normal car, particularly if, like me, you suffer from arthritis.

We've our Merc SL for the occasional pottering about on sunny days with the roof down, but it's just a toy really. Perhaps it's my age, but even given the increasingly rare opportunity to find oneself on a clear bit of twisty road, I do find I'd rather wend along gently than belt around. 

In my opinion, a decently sized estate is well up to family/all weather duties (BMW series 3/5)   less offeding for other road users and more eco friendly

Regards

Roberto

 

Nope, been there... Had a 5 series Touring, an Audi 6 Avant, and a Merc something-or-other estate (my wife's company car for a bit). Too low inside, nothing like the space of our X5 (or, indeed our old Honda CR-V). You lose the high driving position which is a real plus. More eco friendly than what, exactly? And pray why should other road users be offended? It's shorter than a 5 Series estate, a tiddly bit wider.

rsch posted:

wenger2015 posted:

I have a 986 Porsche Boxter 3.2 full leather spec with all the extra toys, absolutely love it, unfortunately last year I did 56 miles!!! 

The only good news, at least it's now starting to appreciate in value...

 

I have a friend in Bruxelles who did 172 km since he took delivery in March last year if this can console you.

Regards

Roberto

Glad it's not just me..

tonym posted:

rsch posted:

tonym posted:

rsch posted:

I totally agree with you about Cayenne and more so with the Chelsea tractor genre. I don't really see the point to drive with such an elevated driving position. On cars like BMW X5 or Merc ML you have actually to climb on it and land when you get out. 

Regards

Roberto

It depends on what use you put your vehicle to, as well as personal preference. For our family use Porsches or somesuch are about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Our X5 is superbly comfortable  on our regular long journeys from Suffolk to the Lake District. It holds all the paraphernalia we need, lots of room for our two dogs. The high driving position is a real plus as far as we are concerned, and during the winter the four-wheel drive is an added benefit (I've been on a transpennine road which has become alomst impassable in minutes due to sudden snowstorm). It's a damn sight easier to get in and out of than a normal car, particularly if, like me, you suffer from arthritis.

We've our Merc SL for the occasional pottering about on sunny days with the roof down, but it's just a toy really. Perhaps it's my age, but even given the increasingly rare opportunity to find oneself on a clear bit of twisty road, I do find I'd rather wend along gently than belt around. 

In my opinion, a decently sized estate is well up to family/all weather duties (BMW series 3/5)   less offeding for other road users and more eco friendly

Regards

Roberto

 

Nope, been there... Had a 5 series Touring, an Audi 6 Avant, and a Merc something-or-other estate (my wife's company car for a bit). Too low inside, nothing like the space of our X5 (or, indeed our old Honda CR-V). You lose the high driving position which is a real plus. More eco friendly than what, exactly? And pray why should other road users be offended? It's shorter than a 5 Series estate, a tiddly bit wider.

i don't really see the point of an elevated driving position, when you drive a normal car (not extremly low sports car) like my Toyota IQ which is pretty high too or Polo, it's not very nice having a wall of metal in front of you.

About fuel economy Italian mag Quattroruote, did a comparison test last year with with difference in fuel consumption  between saloon/estates and equivalent Suv version. It came out a difference from about 10% up to 30 % in favour of normal cars. Not only at motorway speeds where Suvs are penalized by larger frontal  section, but also on urban cycle being these pretty heavier.

Regards

Roberto