chord music streaming, how good? 4600GBP/1m

At some point, you have to realize that no cable will fill the void in your soul.

- or -

the suckier your network, the better the cable will perform.

not that good i am guessing it is insane.....   

while talking like that i bought AQ Diamond..... just in case

is it better than my cinnamon, to tell the truth i don't know

MangoMonkey posted:

At some point, you have to realize that no cable will fill the void in your soul.

- or -

the suckier your network, the better the cable will perform.

 

yes , i agree.  My upgraded network did not help audioquest diamond to be better than vodka.

Perhaps there was very minor differences, but difficult to hear. So a 5 times more expensive lan cable like chord music (vs the diamond)  seems completely exaggerated to my eyes. But i have not experienced it... 

I use the same networking cables that Cymbiosis use, i can enjoy my music for a small fraction of the cost. I can spend my pounds on something that will actually make a difference on my system. Try a blind listening test that you have no idea or control over, and then decide which sounds better.

I tested a bunch of network cables (Meicord, Chord C-Stream, Audioquest Cinnamon, bog-standard CAT5E, Chord Indigo TA) between NAS and router on a friend and the wife on separate occasions. Neither could see what was in place, both could hear differences between most of them and both thought the music sounded "better" with the Indigo. Which was just as well, because that's what I thought  too!

So blithely saying they make no difference is obviously not a blanket rule.

djh1697 posted:

I use the same networking cables that Cymbiosis use, i can enjoy my music for a small fraction of the cost. I can spend my pounds on something that will actually make a difference on my system. Try a blind listening test that you have no idea or control over, and then decide which sounds better.

i am more curious than trying to buy it or not.  It is not possible to test that at dealers place, the best they have is vodka( audioquest). I even doubt if high end audio dealers somewhere have so expensive lan cables....

djh1697 posted:

I use the same networking cables that Cymbiosis use, i can enjoy my music for a small fraction of the cost. I can spend my pounds on something that will actually make a difference on my system. Try a blind listening test that you have no idea or control over, and then decide which sounds better.

And those are what exactly...?

I am a great believer in experimentation and most cabling has an impact. It's possible rather than probable that price is a reflection of cost. Spending silly money on cables is silly by any reckoning 

i am about to try a meicord after hearing some differences between cheap patch and better made cat6. I'll let everyone know if it's been a waste of £60....at least for me.

I use one, I didn't intend to, but after hearing it, I ended up buying one because it's fabulous. In the context of a Katalyst KDS or a max'ed out NDS system, it offers a further upgrade route, which, I have to say, was, for me, pretty substantial.

I'd like to add that although it is indeed horrendously expensive, it's not quite as pricey as the headline states - currently it's £3800. 

My first thought is ....madness. It is not that I don't hear a difference with network cables, but although I preferred the Audioquest Cinnamon over normal CAT5 I think the Blue Jeans Cable CAT6 does an equally good job, for a lot less money. Of course YMMV.

M

Dave J posted:

I use one, I didn't intend to, but after hearing it, I ended up buying one because it's fabulous. In the context of a Katalyst KDS or a max'ed out NDS system, it offers a further upgrade route, which, I have to say, was, for me, pretty substantial.

I'd like to add that although it is indeed horrendously expensive, it's not quite as pricey as the headline states - currently it's £3800. 

---

 

you say it is fabulous, but vs what cable lan before?   perhaps it was your first ( and last) ethernet cable?

Simple solution -a combined store abpnd renderer (e.g UNiti Core, Melco, Innuos Zenith orveven humble Mac Mini/Audirvana) doesn't need a LAN cable, and the entirety of the store/renderer costs less, with no network vagaries to worry about at all!!!

Innocent Bystander posted:

Simple solution -a combined store abpnd renderer (e.g UNiti Core, Melco, Innuos Zenith orveven humble Mac Mini/Audirvana) doesn't need a LAN cable, and the entirety of the store/renderer costs less, with no network vagaries to worry about at all!!!

melco and core and innuos need one lan cable in usb or spdif, two in ethernet mode...

Keler Pierre posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Simple solution -a combined store abpnd renderer (e.g UNiti Core, Melco, Innuos Zenith orveven humble Mac Mini/Audirvana) doesn't need a LAN cable, and the entirety of the store/renderer costs less, with no network vagaries to worry about at all!!!

melco and core and innuos need one lan cable in usb or spdif, two in ethernet mode...

No LAN cable needed if spdif output used, unless one wants online streaming (when the deficiencies of the online connection are likely to outweigh any consideration of sound quality of the LAN cabling).

Keler Pierre posted:

Dave J posted:

I use one, I didn't intend to, but after hearing it, I ended up buying one because it's fabulous. In the context of a Katalyst KDS or a max'ed out NDS system, it offers a further upgrade route, which, I have to say, was, for me, pretty substantial.

I'd like to add that although it is indeed horrendously expensive, it's not quite as pricey as the headline states - currently it's £3800. 

---

 

you say it is fabulous, but vs what cable lan before?   perhaps it was your first ( and last) ethernet cable?

I've tried several Keler... not my first. 

I'm a believer in the ability of an analogue cable to make an audible difference and to back this belief up I have Chord Music between NDS and 552, however I am a whole lot more sceptical about LAN cables.  I hear the argument(s) that supposedly justify the expense, but Chord were using different LAN cables to demonstrate their range at the Acoustica show in Chester back in March.  Last year at the same show they demonstrated different analogue interconnects.  Last year I heard the effect, this year I didn't. Last year I spent £3k on the Music, this year I didn't... simple as that 

Roger

you must be right.  In audio reviews, stereophile or computer audiophile or else...i have never read someone using more expensive lan cables than audioquest diamond. The systems were the best in digital audio today, the interconnects, power cords and speakers cables are often very expensive in these best systems, but the lan cables are often in the league of audioquest vodkas or sometimes audioquest diamond.

Here's my problem with expensive cables. Some, most or all the reasons why are not understood. The rationale to build a £4K cable comes from the desire to build a £4K cable not necessarily solving a problem with unfortunate use of expensive materials. I mean £4K sales price not cost plus sensible margin.

I am sure in the digital world the issues are quite likely to be connection related, if the differences are so great between cables 

In a valve n vinyl system I have a favourite pair of old interconnects that have held their own against the great and the good in several systems for 20 years. They are old BBC microphone cable, that was stripped out from a recording studio. It's great cable and I have found better on some occasions but it's really good. Possibilities why it's good;

1. Good plugs I like and use Neutric phonos (probably not)

2. It's old and well used and incredibly burned in

3. Some of the older insulation has aged for the better

4. I've been lucky with the synergy between several pre and powers

£4K on a cable is still silly in my book

I use AudioQuest Vodka cables and they are very good and a real step up from Cinnamon, though getting a better secondhand switch for £50 made more of a difference. I though a 1.5m Vodka lead for £300 or whatever it cost was expensive, and the idea of spending £3,800 is pretty mind boggling. But then, my little din to XLR cable now costs over £1,800. 

These cables are priced to be what the market will pay, and sort of have to be really expensive so that people think they will be good. When people have their top Naim system, other than the Statement, there is nowhere to go other than cables, so there is an attraction in them in order to get the most from the black boxes. 

£4600 is more than I paid for my 555PSDR.  I wonder which will be the more significant upgrade?

Huge posted:

£4600 is more than I paid for my 555PSDR.  I wonder which will be the more significant upgrade?

yes, it is crazy price.  The audioquest diamond, around 1k, is among the best ethernet cables around, acclaimed in all the world. But even here, i could not detect significative upgrade vs the 3 times cheaper vodka, minor minor differences. So a 4 times more expensive lan vs the diamond is certainly a non sense. I say certainly because i have not tested it, but i doubt i will find a dealer with it or reviews of it.   

There are some non senses in audio, like 50k /1m interconnects or preamps like audionote m10 for 120 k!    there is also italian pivotta amp for 2 millions dollars...the price of 10 naim statements.

There are those who are happy and content with their systems, and those who aren't (and will probably never be). Without wishing to sound patronising, I do feel genuinely sorry for the latter, as they seem to spend an awful lot of time on this forum agonising over either the next £(€$)#,000 outlay or the micro improvements (real or imaginary) to be wrung out of their existing system, whether with the use of snake oil or not!

Don't get me wrong, having just committed a large (for me, anyway) chunk of cash to making the quantum leap from my starter Naim system to my 'keeper' system, I'm not knocking upgrades. It's simply that I am now extremely content with the sound I hear every time I listen to my music, and have no desire whatever to trial any other leads, switches, cables, spikes........ Am I fortunate, or in fact missing out? Probably a bit of both!!

Tim

Those that can afford to spend 4k on an ethernet cable will do so, and of course it will 'sound' fantastic. I don't think this has anything to do with sound quality or contentment or the lack of.

Timmo1341 posted:

There are those who are happy and content with their systems, and those who aren't (and will probably never be). Without wishing to sound patronising, I do feel genuinely sorry for the latter, as they seem to spend an awful lot of time on this forum agonising over either the next £(€$)#,000 outlay or the micro improvements (real or imaginary) to be wrung out of their existing system, whether with the use of snake oil or not!

Don't get me wrong, having just committed a large (for me, anyway) chunk of cash to making the quantum leap from my starter Naim system to my 'keeper' system, I'm not knocking upgrades. It's simply that I am now extremely content with the sound I hear every time I listen to my music, and have no desire whatever to trial any other leads, switches, cables, spikes........ Am I fortunate, or in fact missing out? Probably a bit of both!!

Tim

my point in this topic is to try to know if there is a possibility that a 4k lan cable can sound better , significantly, than common high quality lan cables as audioquest vodka or diamond or chord indigo signature.  It is more curiosity than wanting to buy some one day.

I have no doubt than very expensive speakers cable, interconnects or power cords can improve the sound. But perhaps with lan cables there is a limit in upgrading possibility, or not...

In my modest streaming system I have experimented with three cables - EBay Cat5e out of a pack of 10, eBay Cat7 and the miecord.

A lot of listening over the last week or so, second opinions and a conclusion. Well new cables DO benefit from a few hours use. Not sure if they will continue to improve.

There are consistent but very subtle differences. The miecord is fuller and richer for me a good thing, but it is for me softer. The cheapest cable has the best vocal resolution and timing, this manifests itself in greater dynamics with bass lines and more musicality. The Cat 7 is nearer the miecord but less weighty. It has slightly better tonality, or do it seems. Overall I settled on the cheapest and have swapped lived with then returned to check. Not big differences, for me £50-60 at most. I got a greater increase on all of the cables by removing an unused nap 200 sat under the nap 100.... When tidying up. This both surprised me and reminded me that when your system is sounding good small things can make a difference. Overall do I think Ethernet cables sound different ? Yes they do but for me by a very small amount. I'd put a lot of things in the list before Ethernet cables