Love my CDX2. But what about vinyl??

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Apparently for £50 you can have a nice shiny new one.. this particular model being a portable design...

The hard bit is carrying the Fraim around with it.

What about the possibility that all three media will live on.The question for me is first of all: What do Me and I want to do in the future!? Comfortable and good sounding streaming (when all the bits and bytes are floating around without a problem as highres-files and cheap its also <240 Euro/year for tidal and that's all!> or convenient and good sounding CD replay (practical and no so expensive) or the haptic and good sounding vinyl replay with an atmosphere of audiophile specialization...

For me I'd love to do it in vinyl - but my CDX2 and my NDS still sound better. And to really come on that level with vinyl is a big OH. And the vinyl itself is also not cheap. I fear in real live I do need them all, perhaps just because they sound always a bit different... Hifi hell?

Andib posted:

For me I'd love to do it in vinyl - but my CDX2 and my NDS still sound better. And to really come on that level with vinyl is a big OH. And the vinyl itself is also not cheap. I fear in real live I do need them all, perhaps just because they sound always a bit different... Hifi hell?

I'd happily look after the DPS for you to save you from Hi-Fi hell. I have no vinyl anymore, but i'd be happy just to stare lovingly at that gorgeous turntable whilst listening to my ripped CDs 

My two penneth- just enjoy whatever does it for you - it doesn't matter what the format is and you've got some great sources there to enjoy. 

If you look longer term, there will be other formats - but I doubt whether they would be physical like LP or CD, more likely simply developments of file storage (and variants such as 3D sound), and eventually, maybe, direct plug into the brain...

Add to developing technology the modern fact of reducing living space, and the days of large media storage capability must be numbered, at least except for the mega-rich).

SO enjoy your vinyl while you can!  Of course, for as long as existing records don't wear out andstyli keep being produced, it will be possible to maintain current collections for probably several decades after the last LP has been pressed, so well out of probably all our lifetimes before they will ipexist only in museums (virtual of course)

Keler Pierre posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Jonn posted:

analogmusic posted:

Keler Pierre

 

 

My point about all this still remains, Vinyl is nice, nostalgic and romantic, but it's the past.

 

Yeah right 

Vinyl sales topped three million last year, the highest UK total in 25 years.
More than 3.2 million records were sold in 2016, a rise of 53% on the previous year, according to the BPI, which represents the music industry.

CD sales still fifteen times that of vinyl (47.3 million), despite a fall in sales of 11%. Time will tell, but I cannot personally see vinyl ever overtaking CDs or streaming and becoming mainstream.  What would be interesting to see are the recent sales figures of the high end turntable manufacturers compared with those of streamers of similar quality. I'd lay a few quid on the former not getting within 5% of the latter. Linn, SME, Vertere etc. will always have a small niche appeal to audiophiles, but not much more. Once the current crop of ageing enthusiasts have shuffled off I doubt there will be many youngsters to replace them. As the current fad for nostalgic vinyl peaks, as it undoubtedly will within 5-10 years, vinyl will die a natural death. Purely my own opinion of course, I'm sure there will be the usual suspects in opposition!

you don't know of what you are talking sorry. Your argument was already present 30 years ago, people saying cd is the future and vinyl is dead, and bla-bla-bla....listen first to a high end vinyl set up, from the turntable to the arm and cartridge and the phono stage, you will change your mind. And i am not talking about the lp12....

What percentage of the first world do you think can, or wants to, afford £20k+ for a turntable and trappings (and then the cost of replicating a record collection in vinyl at £25+ a pop)? I believe I have a much firmer grasp on reality than you! No-one begrudges you the hi-fi esoterica you own, or aspire to own, but please don't fall into the trap of believing you are representative of anything other than a very, very tiny minority. I wouldn't argue for one moment that the sounds you have heard reproduced are truly wonderful to your ears, but you are, in my opinion, wrong - vinyl won't perhaps actually die, but it will diminish into a niche product for the very rich and/or the very obsessive. You of course will disagree with me, and hey, thats absolutely fine - just please don't presume to tell me I don't know of what I am talking. I do, we simply have a different take on things.

I listen to music for fun mainly. Rarely is it anything overly cerebral. It's one of my leisure activities. I want to sit there and say wow, sounds good. Vinyl does this more often than CD or a bit of streaming. I also love the physical media, the ritual of playing it, and it's good to move about every 20 minutes or so. When I want to be entertained I reach for the black stuff.

Listening to some brand new vinyl now (Little Fictions). I guess it's a digital recording but sounds great on my humble spinner!

Stu

Jonn posted:

Don't get me wrong, although vinyl albums sound better than digital I still buy more CDs than vinyl due to the big difference in cost, especially for new albums. I also tend to listen more to ripped CDs than vinyl, mainly due to convenience and greater number (c600 vinyl albums and twice as many ripped CDs plus a few hires downloads).

Agree that the sound of digital music is very good now and I can't say I miss playing vinyl all the time as the two formats are just as enjoyable.

If I was starting from scratch and hadn't got a large collection of vinyl albums I probably wouldn't have invested so much in my record deck but certainly don't regret it due to the quality of sound it produces.

You don't know what you're are talking about, just stop it Jonn!!!

Well said! 

+ 2

Allante93! 

Just Google Vinyl sales vs CD sales: 

Very Confusing!!!! Wow! 

Don't follow trends - just like what I like and as I'm of a certain age I've amassed just short of 800 LPs some going back to the 1950s and in pristine condition. These will outlive me - as not me my hi res downloads. Room for all formats but I do like getting my albums out on wet days and taking  trips down memory lane - even memories of old girlfriends - don't tell the wife!

Ravenswood10 posted:

Don't follow trends - {{just like what I like}} and as I'm of a certain age I've amassed just short of 800 LPs some going back to the 1950s and in pristine condition. These will outlive me - as not me my hi res downloads. Room for all formats but I do like getting my albums out on wet days and taking  trips down memory lane - even memories of old girlfriends - don't tell the wife!

I don't know, if you can part with that SC, I might manage to keep my big mouth shut!

LOL!

As my Father use to say:

If you like it, I Love it!

Personal Enjoyment!

Allante93!

Gosh, such aggressive and dogmatic posts between the streaming, CD and vinyl camps.  I really don't get it. If you prefer 1 format, then go with it. If you like several replay formats, that's fine too. I happen to appreciate all 3 at different times.

Can we not live and let live a bit?

Perhaps it's the Devon sunshine, seaside air and cream teas that have upped my levels of Kharma this week 

Best regards, FT

Foot tapper posted:

Gosh, such aggressive and dogmatic posts between the streaming, CD and vinyl camps.  I really don't get it. If you prefer 1 format, then go with it. If you like several replay formats, that's fine too. I happen to appreciate all 3 at different times.

Can we not live and let live a bit?

Perhaps it's the Devon sunshine, seaside air and cream teas that have upped my levels of Kharma this week 

Best regards, FT

Now FT, we got to have something to Discuss, or back to Donald @ the Padded Cell!

A New Paradigm! LOL...

Simon!

Oh, okay. In that case, 30ips reel to reel tape is the future. Anything else is deplorable!

Discuss...

Timmo1341 posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Jonn posted:

analogmusic posted:

Keler Pierre

 

 

My point about all this still remains, Vinyl is nice, nostalgic and romantic, but it's the past.

 

Yeah right 

Vinyl sales topped three million last year, the highest UK total in 25 years.
More than 3.2 million records were sold in 2016, a rise of 53% on the previous year, according to the BPI, which represents the music industry.

CD sales still fifteen times that of vinyl (47.3 million), despite a fall in sales of 11%. Time will tell, but I cannot personally see vinyl ever overtaking CDs or streaming and becoming mainstream.  What would be interesting to see are the recent sales figures of the high end turntable manufacturers compared with those of streamers of similar quality. I'd lay a few quid on the former not getting within 5% of the latter. Linn, SME, Vertere etc. will always have a small niche appeal to audiophiles, but not much more. Once the current crop of ageing enthusiasts have shuffled off I doubt there will be many youngsters to replace them. As the current fad for nostalgic vinyl peaks, as it undoubtedly will within 5-10 years, vinyl will die a natural death. Purely my own opinion of course, I'm sure there will be the usual suspects in opposition!

you don't know of what you are talking sorry. Your argument was already present 30 years ago, people saying cd is the future and vinyl is dead, and bla-bla-bla....listen first to a high end vinyl set up, from the turntable to the arm and cartridge and the phono stage, you will change your mind. And i am not talking about the lp12....

What percentage of the first world do you think can, or wants to, afford £20k+ for a turntable and trappings (and then the cost of replicating a record collection in vinyl at £25+ a pop)? I believe I have a much firmer grasp on reality than you! No-one begrudges you the hi-fi esoterica you own, or aspire to own, but please don't fall into the trap of believing you are representative of anything other than a very, very tiny minority. I wouldn't argue for one moment that the sounds you have heard reproduced are truly wonderful to your ears, but you are, in my opinion, wrong - vinyl won't perhaps actually die, but it will diminish into a niche product for the very rich and/or the very obsessive. You of course will disagree with me, and hey, thats absolutely fine - just please don't presume to tell me I don't know of what I am talking. I do, we simply have a different take on things.

have you seen how many turntables are shown at the Munich high end show:  in every room there is a turntable: thorens, rega, linn, vertere, acoustic signature, avid, brinkman, clearaudio, thales, vpi, mark levinson new turntable, walker audio, continuum...EACH YEAR THERE ARE MORE!   cd players are dying, yes, no turntables.  It is not nostalgia or romantism, but the fact that vinyl sound is for now still the best and streaming audio is struggling to compete: the gap is reducing but there is still a gap.

I bought my sme20/sme5 15 years ago, just changing oil and minor things every 2 years. 2 k cartridge every 5 years. It costed me around 10 k but my nds/555dr/unitserve- linear ps costs more than 20k and music from analog years is much better sounding on my turntable...it is a fact.

@ Pierre:

Well, I'm familiar with your NDS, but never heard of your TT!

But it appears you have the bases covered, with two top notch sources!

"SME 20 Turntable with original SME mk5 Tonearm Limited (Gold lettering) Pretty much the best sounding turntables out there. I had my share of Oracles / VPI / Michell / Transrotors / Linns..............if you think these tables are superb, drop your cartridge on one of these babies and there is no turning back I assure you! "

Allante93!

PS. The Information Age!

i think the record companies realised - they can make some decent profits for vinyl sales, so it is worth selling. and it sounds good (even if it came from a digital source), so the customer is happy to buy it.

But hope they lower the prices back to 10 GBP per album.

Ravenswood10 posted:

Don't follow trends - just like what I like and as I'm of a certain age I've amassed just short of 800 LPs some going back to the 1950s and in pristine condition. These will outlive me - as not me my hi res downloads. Room for all formats but I do like getting my albums out on wet days and taking  trips down memory lane - even memories of old girlfriends - don't tell the wife!

How absolutely right you are Ravenswood !  But should I be worried  about the amount of time I spend walking down memory lane (not just on wet days)?  It seems to me the older I get, the more I am drawn to the past - to memory lane - but surely this cannot be healthy, surely I should live for the present and look forward to the future? 

I musical terms, the effect is to concentrate on artists who were popular in the past, at the expense of up & coming talent, so where's that going to get us as a music loving fraternity?  ...into trouble, no doubt.

And in mental terms, the more I spend time reminiscing, the harder it seems to return to the reality of the real world, and the more depressed I feel when I do.

Holy poo, am I going bonkers... or am I experiencing the ups and downs of life as an audiophile?

PS - to try to answer my own question I just Googled "Which musical composers went mad?" - seems I may be in good company 

Well, my record buying rate decreased over the years as I found less and less new music to my taste, now standing at only a handful of albums a year compared to at least that many a month when I first started earning (the few years before that much limited by available cash). And over my 48 years of collecting, I have never stopped playing music from the early years, and a significant proportion of my most frequently played albums date from my first decade of buying. 

And yes, many of them transport me back to particular times and places, which whilst not the intent of playing them is always a pleasant experience, and sometimes it makes me reminisce and wonder about what happened to long lost friends, or awakes a longing for the time when my youth was not just in my mind. However I have never (yet) found it depressing returning to the present world. The answer to that problem, of course, would be to play more music so as not to return!

Keler Pierre posted:

analogmusic posted:

fat cat 

the issue with digital was that emotional content of music was missing (and this was Digital's fatal flaw) and that it didn't have the small signal resolution. That's why Mojo, Hugo and Dave are very good.

I'm not saying that Dave has the resolution of the very best analog, but with the Chord ADC, and then the Blu upscale, it has been reported that is solves that gap.

But the emotional content is there, and the Mojo/Hugo/Dave have  a big soundstage, like vinyl, and the sounds float out of the speakers, just as it should...

With my Dave/Hugo/Mojo and Tidal, the sound quality is very good, and access to tens of thousands of albums....

 

you are chord seller?

are you " old records" seller?  

I had a huge record collection,(3000+), pretty good LP-12 setup and ready access to new music back in the day. So thought I was a music guru. or at least well travelled. Sadly I sold my entire collection, which was a mistake I know, and had to make do with CD. Wasn't a sonic decision, it was financial. The proceeds let me buy a house.

These days I just stream my 3000 or so albums from the NAS. The convenience of the format is pretty good, but I also am rapt with the way I can just launch off into interwobble land and  check out artist bios, reviews, personal listings etc. Of course you can do this with your LPs, a tablet in your lap is all you need. But Rovi and the Naim app showing you titles makes it so easy.

But I have also found that being able to scan my collection by genre, artist, composer etc has led me to some great insights too. So although my collection is about the same size as the glory days, it's a lot more broad. And this adds to my enjoyment of music. Not a purist thought I know but if I'm honest, it counts for me.

Of course vinyl calls, there are so many great titles out there in the second hand bins, and such marvelous sonic delights there in the grooves. I am pretty sure that a well recorded analogue all the way LP from the late 70's to mid 80's can take you places digital can't.

But I heard a NDS with all the black boxes you could desire including the Statement and could hear that digital gets there too. I think that a well recorded modern 24/96 album can take you places analogue can't.

Given that I have a starter system, my money will go into improving streaming/amplification for quite a while. I am actually not too worried if I even just stay where I am, the music sounds great. All you really want to do is forget it's a hifi and just groove to the sound. Both formats can get you there, just in slightly, (and ever more narrowing), ways.

As for warring about what's the best format, well ultimately it's not that important.

Keler Pierre posted:

analogmusic posted:

Keler Pierre

 

I have no relationship with Chord in any way, other than owning and enjoying music on a Chord Mojo and Chord Dave.

My point about all this still remains, Vinyl is nice, nostalgic and romantic, but it's the past.

I had similar observations when I compared Linn Klimax Steamer to their Lp12. I preferred the KDS streamer . Maybe it gave away A little   sound quality to the LP12, but you got so much more music on Tidal through KDS and then also the space optimization software... and it sounds great

I think some of the Linn guys who got the latest Katalyst upgrade and also own LP12 feel the gap is now very small between both in terms of engagement and enjoying music.

linn full lp12 is the beginning of high end turntables...vinyl sound quality can go much much more....  I had the pleasure to hear acoustic signature ascona and also sme30/12 with lyra etna , with high end phono stage i don't remember which:  i have never heard digital sounding so good, never, and i have heard some very expensive digital sources in recent years.

how much is this analog setup?  

i dont argue that it will sound fantastic but is it fair to compare it with 8500£ dac or any dac?  

Keler Pierre posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Jonn posted:

analogmusic posted:

Keler Pierre

 

 

My point about all this still remains, Vinyl is nice, nostalgic and romantic, but it's the past.

 

Yeah right 

Vinyl sales topped three million last year, the highest UK total in 25 years.
More than 3.2 million records were sold in 2016, a rise of 53% on the previous year, according to the BPI, which represents the music industry.

CD sales still fifteen times that of vinyl (47.3 million), despite a fall in sales of 11%. Time will tell, but I cannot personally see vinyl ever overtaking CDs or streaming and becoming mainstream.  What would be interesting to see are the recent sales figures of the high end turntable manufacturers compared with those of streamers of similar quality. I'd lay a few quid on the former not getting within 5% of the latter. Linn, SME, Vertere etc. will always have a small niche appeal to audiophiles, but not much more. Once the current crop of ageing enthusiasts have shuffled off I doubt there will be many youngsters to replace them. As the current fad for nostalgic vinyl peaks, as it undoubtedly will within 5-10 years, vinyl will die a natural death. Purely my own opinion of course, I'm sure there will be the usual suspects in opposition!

you don't know of what you are talking sorry. Your argument was already present 30 years ago, people saying cd is the future and vinyl is dead, and bla-bla-bla....listen first to a high end vinyl set up, from the turntable to the arm and cartridge and the phono stage, you will change your mind. And i am not talking about the lp12....

it is like sideburns every 20 year they come and go with younger population, vinyl sales are fashion and nostalgia rather then a hifi revival, there was a research saying that X% of vinyl buyers never played the record at all..... 

i kept my vinyl for 15 years way before it was fashionable but unless you have a good rig it is just feeling and looks....

and a good rig is expensive, i will buy a kronos sparta one day but still saving....  meanwhile a dave seems like a good deal

Nice one Emre.

that's what I think too flare pants, sideburns big moustache and Vinyl records. Add a VW Beatle to that list too LOL !!!

Kind of John Travolta "Saturday night fever" kind of vibe. 

for me listening to a very good digital recording like Dua Lipa's debut album ("be the one" for instance) on a Chord Dave, or other hi-end streamer, puts an end to that "soft" sound of rolled off highs of analog tape and romantic pop and click (and limited dynamic range) Vinyl. Oh so gentle that analogue sound, but since when was Live Rock Music gentle on the ears?

Listen to that same album from a laptop into a chord DAC with MQA format (it will stream at 96/24), and well, difficult for me to listen to Vinyl after that.

"Search your feelings Luke Skywalker" or rather search this forum for posts from Barry Diament (who has remastered Led Zeppelin so he knows what he is talking about Keller Pierre) - he said good digital equipment recording at 192/24 bit is not the closest to the mixing desk - it is effectively that same signal with no change or alternation he can detect from the live feed.

analogmusic posted:

 

Listen to that same album from a laptop into a chord DAC with MQA format (it will stream at 96/24), and well, difficult for me to listen to Vinyl after that.

.

MQA? Not the original high res file?

another "search your feelings Luke Skywalker' post

one can search for the review of that old Chord QBD76 DAC on what hi-fi, now the latest Hugo 2 sounds much superior, but see what they said 10 years ago

"The QBD76 doesn't always sound easy on the ear like Unison Research's Unico CDE does; neither does it produce rich-sounding or warm results. No, it's all about fluidity, naturalness and the kind of cohesion that only the very best turntables can manage."

Seek the truth and it will see you free