Love my CDX2. But what about vinyl??
Posted by: Andib on 08 July 2017
After months of abstinence (only using my nds and bauer TT) I am once again very impressed by my CDX2. Just wow!! A very dynamic and "punchy" sound. And also warm and detailed - nearly a bit of everything to me..
But I never found a turntable with that CDX2 sound.. Is there any out there? I tried proJect expression and rpm5, rega P5 and RP10 (just lent 3 days), and bauer dps2 over the years. The "nearest" in that category to my ears was the RP10... But what would you say? Is there any TT masterpiece in this regard? Thank you for any recommendations.
To fully unfold MQA you need a MQA DAC that will fully decode to 192/24
However I compared the 96/24 MQA Tidal 1st level decode of my Chord Mojo to the 192/24 full Tidal MQA unfold with an MQA DAC, and the Chord Mojo was audibly superior.
MQA can do certain things, but it will not outperform the Pulse Array DAC of a Chord. 
analogmusic posted:another "search your feelings Luke Skywalker' post
one can search for the review of that old Chord QBD76 DAC on what hi-fi, now the latest Hugo 2 sounds much superior, but see what they said 10 years ago
"The QBD76 doesn't always sound easy on the ear like Unison Research's Unico CDE does; neither does it produce rich-sounding or warm results. No, it's all about fluidity, naturalness and the kind of cohesion that only the very best turntables can manage."
Seek the truth and it will see you free
Have you been seeking the truth in La La Land.
I have Mojo. It has 3 digital inputs, they all sound different.
Is USB the truth. Is coax spdif the truth or spdif optical the truth.
I’ve used three analogue cables, they sound very different.
Is Mogami the truth, is Kimber the truth or is flashback the truth.
Perhaps one of the forum mathematicians could work out how many versions of the truth I could listen too, with the above collection of cables.
I could also increase the possible number of truths by changing the streamer, ethernet cable feeding the steamer, switch power supply, switch and NAS. (Allegedly).
Fatcat
maybe you can go listen to Vinyl and be happy with that, especially buying a hi-end turnable and deplete your bank account by 18K GBP at least
It's the same truth that Keler Pierre is hearing/seeking, with any number of cartridges, interconnects, Motor, power supply, tonearms, tonearm wires, type of pressing, age of the master, etc etc etc.
and yes the Phono stage itself !!!! Naim Superline vs Linn Ulrika Vs Vertere Phono stage vs Rega....
50 shades of earl grey all for your listening pleasure, romantic sounds guaranteed in the package.
But the difference is that truth via Vinyl gonna cost ya 18k GBP at the very least for a hi-end turntable, since we don't know what we're talking about unless one listens to Vinyl on such a turntable.
Mojo music only costs 400 GBP for that Pulse Array DAC, and maybe 150 GBP for a Vertere Pulse DFI interconnect or same amount for a Chord Tuned Aray cable.
Pulse Array, vs the round grooves.
take your pick. Pun intended.
Innocent Bystander posted:analogmusic posted:
Listen to that same album from a laptop into a chord DAC with MQA format (it will stream at 96/24), and well, difficult for me to listen to Vinyl after that.
.
MQA? Not the original high res file?
analogmusic posted:To fully unfold MQA you need a MQA DAC that will fully decode to 192/24
However I compared the 96/24 MQA Tidal 1st level decode of my Chord Mojo to the 192/24 full Tidal MQA unfold with an MQA DAC, and the Chord Mojo was audibly superior.
MQA can do certain things, but it will not outperform the Pulse Array DAC of a Chord.
My question re MQA was expressing surprise that you cited an MQA file in your championing of digital over vinyl, despite that the reference you quoted was not even fully decompressed. I haven't heard MQA myself, and have been under the impression that because it is a lossy compression and artefacts are produced in its reconstruction it would not be true to the original file (though some people may like the effect produced by the artefacts).
Emre posted:Keler Pierre posted:analogmusic posted:fat cat
the issue with digital was that emotional content of music was missing (and this was Digital's fatal flaw) and that it didn't have the small signal resolution. That's why Mojo, Hugo and Dave are very good.
I'm not saying that Dave has the resolution of the very best analog, but with the Chord ADC, and then the Blu upscale, it has been reported that is solves that gap.
But the emotional content is there, and the Mojo/Hugo/Dave have a big soundstage, like vinyl, and the sounds float out of the speakers, just as it should...
With my Dave/Hugo/Mojo and Tidal, the sound quality is very good, and access to tens of thousands of albums....
you are chord seller?
are you " old records" seller?
chord makes fantastic dacs, but it was not my point..
Emre posted:Keler Pierre posted:analogmusic posted:Keler Pierre
I have no relationship with Chord in any way, other than owning and enjoying music on a Chord Mojo and Chord Dave.
My point about all this still remains, Vinyl is nice, nostalgic and romantic, but it's the past.
I had similar observations when I compared Linn Klimax Steamer to their Lp12. I preferred the KDS streamer
I think some of the Linn guys who got the latest Katalyst upgrade and also own LP12 feel the gap is now very small between both in terms of engagement and enjoying music.
linn full lp12 is the beginning of high end turntables...vinyl sound quality can go much much more.... I had the pleasure to hear acoustic signature ascona and also sme30/12 with lyra etna , with high end phono stage i don't remember which: i have never heard digital sounding so good, never, and i have heard some very expensive digital sources in recent years.
how much is this analog setup?
i dont argue that it will sound fantastic but is it fair to compare it with 8500£ dac or any dac?
i am comparing the best with the best in absolute terms. But i think that already a 15k turntable/arm/ cartridge , with good phono, can compete with full stack dcs or msb or else in stratospheric prices... I am not the only one.
Now here's a thought from some who gives houseroom to digital and analogue formats. I had my previous LP12 for 25 years and in the recent past traded for an 18 month old Klimax model. Taking servicing and cartridge changes into account I wonder what represents the greatest VFM over time given that I have a fair stock of LPs dating back to the 1950s?
As much as I love my NDS I can't see it being around for the next 10 years - come to that I wonder if I'll even be around in 15-20 years
Digital is great but it's a bit like computers and flat screen tellies where the pace of development aka an excuse to spend is always around the corner. 10 years time we'll have Apple wireless brain implant with no need for boxes and shelves!
The very best VFM I have is FM in the shape of my NAT01 which is in daily use. Serviced around 4 years back and still sounding very good indeed on good old R3 live broadcasts - that is until some clot switches FM off!
Emre posted:Keler Pierre posted:Timmo1341 posted:Jonn posted:analogmusic posted:Keler Pierre
My point about all this still remains, Vinyl is nice, nostalgic and romantic, but it's the past.
Yeah right
Vinyl sales topped three million last year, the highest UK total in 25 years.
More than 3.2 million records were sold in 2016, a rise of 53% on the previous year, according to the BPI, which represents the music industry.CD sales still fifteen times that of vinyl (47.3 million), despite a fall in sales of 11%. Time will tell, but I cannot personally see vinyl ever overtaking CDs or streaming and becoming mainstream. What would be interesting to see are the recent sales figures of the high end turntable manufacturers compared with those of streamers of similar quality. I'd lay a few quid on the former not getting within 5% of the latter. Linn, SME, Vertere etc. will always have a small niche appeal to audiophiles, but not much more. Once the current crop of ageing enthusiasts have shuffled off I doubt there will be many youngsters to replace them. As the current fad for nostalgic vinyl peaks, as it undoubtedly will within 5-10 years, vinyl will die a natural death. Purely my own opinion of course, I'm sure there will be the usual suspects in opposition!
you don't know of what you are talking sorry. Your argument was already present 30 years ago, people saying cd is the future and vinyl is dead, and bla-bla-bla....listen first to a high end vinyl set up, from the turntable to the arm and cartridge and the phono stage, you will change your mind. And i am not talking about the lp12....
it is like sideburns every 20 year they come and go with younger population, vinyl sales are fashion and nostalgia rather then a hifi revival, there was a research saying that X% of vinyl buyers never played the record at all.....
i kept my vinyl for 15 years way before it was fashionable but unless you have a good rig it is just feeling and looks....
and a good rig is expensive, i will buy a kronos sparta one day but still saving.... meanwhile a dave seems like a good deal
Emre posted:Keler Pierre posted:Timmo1341 posted:Jonn posted:analogmusic posted:Keler Pierre
My point about all this still remains, Vinyl is nice, nostalgic and romantic, but it's the past.
Yeah right
Vinyl sales topped three million last year, the highest UK total in 25 years.
More than 3.2 million records were sold in 2016, a rise of 53% on the previous year, according to the BPI, which represents the music industry.CD sales still fifteen times that of vinyl (47.3 million), despite a fall in sales of 11%. Time will tell, but I cannot personally see vinyl ever overtaking CDs or streaming and becoming mainstream. What would be interesting to see are the recent sales figures of the high end turntable manufacturers compared with those of streamers of similar quality. I'd lay a few quid on the former not getting within 5% of the latter. Linn, SME, Vertere etc. will always have a small niche appeal to audiophiles, but not much more. Once the current crop of ageing enthusiasts have shuffled off I doubt there will be many youngsters to replace them. As the current fad for nostalgic vinyl peaks, as it undoubtedly will within 5-10 years, vinyl will die a natural death. Purely my own opinion of course, I'm sure there will be the usual suspects in opposition!
you don't know of what you are talking sorry. Your argument was already present 30 years ago, people saying cd is the future and vinyl is dead, and bla-bla-bla....listen first to a high end vinyl set up, from the turntable to the arm and cartridge and the phono stage, you will change your mind. And i am not talking about the lp12....
it is like sideburns every 20 year they come and go with younger population, vinyl sales are fashion and nostalgia rather then a hifi revival, there was a research saying that X% of vinyl buyers never played the record at all.....
i kept my vinyl for 15 years way before it was fashionable but unless you have a good rig it is just feeling and looks....
and a good rig is expensive, i will buy a kronos sparta one day but still saving.... meanwhile a dave seems like a good deal
some combos: sme20/3 with sme5 arm: 13k. vpi classic 3 /jmv 10.5: 8 k. acoustic signature novum: 15k. amg giro: 8k. avid acutus: 12k. some examples that already beats an nds/555df or chord dave on music from 50's to 1985( vinyl vs downloads)
Keler Pierre posted:Emre posted:Keler Pierre posted:analogmusic posted:Keler Pierre
I have no relationship with Chord in any way, other than owning and enjoying music on a Chord Mojo and Chord Dave.
My point about all this still remains, Vinyl is nice, nostalgic and romantic, but it's the past.
I had similar observations when I compared Linn Klimax Steamer to their Lp12. I preferred the KDS streamer
I think some of the Linn guys who got the latest Katalyst upgrade and also own LP12 feel the gap is now very small between both in terms of engagement and enjoying music.
linn full lp12 is the beginning of high end turntables...vinyl sound quality can go much much more.... I had the pleasure to hear acoustic signature ascona and also sme30/12 with lyra etna , with high end phono stage i don't remember which: i have never heard digital sounding so good, never, and i have heard some very expensive digital sources in recent years.
how much is this analog setup?
i dont argue that it will sound fantastic but is it fair to compare it with 8500£ dac or any dac?
i am comparing the best with the best in absolute terms. But i think that already a 15k turntable/arm/ cartridge , with good phono, can compete with full stack dcs or msb or else in stratospheric prices... I am not the only one.
on that totally agree..... but the mid pack 5-10 is very comparable with Dave...
Not this, again.... 
I've heard 3 Dave's (my own, my friends one, also a demo unit) - none are bright and cause fatigue after 20 minutes.
I didn't particularly like Chord Sarum Interconnects with Chord Dave, which sounds great with Naim own interconnects like Hi-line RCA to DIN, or better, the Vertere ones
Chord Sarum does sound superb (!) with HDX, CD555 and also KDS/1 to be fair.
One particular Naim dealer in London (a big one) , did not advise me to buy Chord Interconnects (only Music would be ok) - as they sound bright, and told me to buy Vertere cables, no issues with brightness.
I don't know how that particular Dave you heard at TonyM's home was sourced (melco? what's that - I have no experience), which digital wire, how connected, Dave is very transparent and will punish if something is not set up properly.
Many, many satisfied Dave owners on head fi - not a single one has complained about being bright or fatiguing, including reviews on Stereophile and what hi-fi.
On the other hand, when people change the standard Naim wires (in this case, DIN/XLR) with their own homemade ones, it isn't a Naim wire, and hence the amplifier may not perform as Naim intended.
I think Rob Watts found this particular assertion (Tony's QBD being better than Dave) quite ridiculous on head-fi and said it was this sort of non-sense that made him leave hi-end audio design for a few years.
Having heard Mojo, Hugo, Hugo TT and then Dave, I find it also very strange that Dave would sound worse than a Hugo, which apparently sounds as good as a QBD76 in Tony's system.
For the record Dave shows Hugo a very clean pair of heels to my ears. Why else would I pay 8000 GBP for a Dave???
But lets not open that can of worms again, I think we've already argued about this enough.
I think update to the code doesn't do justice, it was a complete re-write of the code from scratch as the older code was, in his own words "a hodge podge of older verilog code" carried forward over the years.
As for system synergy, well - I strongly suspect the Sarum cables...
One does get used to Sarum though - there is marked increased in bandwidth coming through. Nothing much that would put me off using them, even with Dave.
But in the end, if with the cables that work fine with the QBD, in a system that sounds fine otherwise, if Dave doesn't convince to spend 8000 GBP, that's perfectly ok. It's a LOT of money.
Nobody should spend that kind of money unless it works in their system.
Emre posted:Keler Pierre posted:Emre posted:Keler Pierre posted:analogmusic posted:Keler Pierre
I have no relationship with Chord in any way, other than owning and enjoying music on a Chord Mojo and Chord Dave.
My point about all this still remains, Vinyl is nice, nostalgic and romantic, but it's the past.
I had similar observations when I compared Linn Klimax Steamer to their Lp12. I preferred the KDS streamer
I think some of the Linn guys who got the latest Katalyst upgrade and also own LP12 feel the gap is now very small between both in terms of engagement and enjoying music.
linn full lp12 is the beginning of high end turntables...vinyl sound quality can go much much more.... I had the pleasure to hear acoustic signature ascona and also sme30/12 with lyra etna , with high end phono stage i don't remember which: i have never heard digital sounding so good, never, and i have heard some very expensive digital sources in recent years.
how much is this analog setup?
i dont argue that it will sound fantastic but is it fair to compare it with 8500£ dac or any dac?
i am comparing the best with the best in absolute terms. But i think that already a 15k turntable/arm/ cartridge , with good phono, can compete with full stack dcs or msb or else in stratospheric prices... I am not the only one.
on that totally agree..... but the mid pack 5-10 is very comparable with Dave...
yes, for sure! no problem. rega p10 is comparable to dave for instance...
analogmusic posted:
Nobody should spend that kind of money unless it works in their system.
Quite 
analogmusic posted:Not this, again....
I've heard 3 Dave's (my own, my friends one, also a demo unit) - none are bright and cause fatigue after 20 minutes.
I didn't particularly like Chord Sarum Interconnects with Chord Dave, which sounds great with Naim own interconnects like Hi-line RCA to DIN, or better, the Vertere ones
Chord Sarum does sound superb (!) with HDX, CD555 and also KDS/1 to be fair.
One particular Naim dealer in London (a big one) , did not advise me to buy Chord Interconnects (only Music would be ok) - as they sound bright, and told me to buy Vertere cables, no issues with brightness.
I don't know how that particular Dave you heard at TonyM's home was sourced (melco? what's that - I have no experience), which digital wire, how connected, Dave is very transparent and will punish if something is not set up properly.
Many, many satisfied Dave owners on head fi - not a single one has complained about being bright or fatiguing, including reviews on Stereophile and what hi-fi.
On the other hand, when people change the standard Naim wires (in this case, DIN/XLR) with their own homemade ones, it isn't a Naim wire, and hence the amplifier may not perform as Naim intended.
I think Rob Watts found this particular assertion (Tony's QBD being better than Dave) quite ridiculous on head-fi and said it was this sort of non-sense that made him leave hi-end audio design for a few years.
Having heard Mojo, Hugo, Hugo TT and then Dave, I find it also very strange that Dave would sound worse than a Hugo, which apparently sounds as good as a QBD76 in Tony's system.
For the record Dave shows Hugo a very clean pair of heels to my ears. Why else would I pay 8000 GBP for a Dave???
But lets not open that can of worms again, I think we've already argued about this enough.
i found a recent review of comparaison of: dave-hugo- berkeley reference dac and don't remember the last two. The reviewer found the dave very good, but little harsh on voices vs the berkeley...
John Atkinson, on june stereophile, preferred the meridian ultra dac, more realistic true tones colors and decay of notes.
Martin Colloms preferred the nds/555dr to chord dave: nds was more dynamic and had more prat.
To end, dave is a very good dac, yes. the best of all: no. better as high end vinyl: absolutely not.
analogmusic posted:I think update to the code doesn't do justice, it was a complete re-write of the code from scratch as the older code was, in his own words "a hodge podge of older verilog code" carried forward over the years.
As for system synergy, well - I strongly suspect the Sarum cables...
One does get used to Sarum though - there is marked increased in bandwidth coming through. Nothing much that would put me off using them, even with Dave.
But in the end, if with the cables that work fine with the QBD, in a system that sounds fine otherwise, if Dave doesn't convince to spend 8000 GBP, that's perfectly ok. It's a LOT of money.
Nobody should spend that kind of money unless it works in their system.
I really don't understand why you get yourself so worked up over this. I did try DAVE at length, on two occasions, with various interconnects and sources. Much as I admire certain aspects of its performance it just does not gell musically in my system, as perfectly explained by Foot Tapper, and nothing I did made the situation any better. Lack of synergy can't be readily explained but if you've been a hi-fi affectionado as long as I have you do encounter this every now and again. Just accept it and move on - no amount of quoting Mr Watts (of Chord Ltd.) about technical excellence will change the situation. Glad you like yours but it's not for me.