As oppose to  a sign on the pavement that read...

   Wet Paint

(this is not an instruction)

I love to watch wet paint drying.  Especially if you do touch and manipulate it to do interesting things.  Like a moment of time captured.

As for a direct response to the content of your post, rather than the topic, I agree wholeheartedly with number 4;

Consciousmess posted:

4) Place your system not between speakers but far AWAY to the side.

I've tried it both ways and spending the extra bucks on additional lengths of NACA5 to get my system rack from between the speakers was a very worthy upgrade. Probably the best advice I've gotten from a dealer who loaned me the longer cables and implored me to give it a try. Interesting how many in the "System Pics" thread have their gear centered between the speakers, often with a TV smack in the middle.

I'm sure many of us recognise it would perhaps be better to move our gear from between the speakers, but equally many of us live in homes where two racks in the living room just isn't an option (unless we want to live alone).  I guess that's why so many pictures look like that.  But then again compromise helps us to get along with others.

My small system (2 boxes) respects points 1, 2 and 4. It's ok, sounds good, but this forum is full of people who would deny that the moon is round so expect all sort of contradiction or, what's even more irritating, posts that seem to contradict your assumptions and actually confirm them.

So, point 5): Never give unrequested advice; requested advices are seldom followed, so just imagine unrequested ones.

But you're right,

best

M 

I'm constrained to having the stacks between the speakers. Serious cable dressing is out of the question for the same reason. I've been thinking about drilling holes in the floor and running the speaker wires thru the crawl space underneath to minimize the spaghetti. Has anyone tried this? 

JRHardee posted:

I'm constrained to having the stacks between the speakers. Serious cable dressing is out of the question for the same reason. I've been thinking about drilling holes in the floor and running the speaker wires thru the crawl space underneath to minimize the spaghetti. Has anyone tried this? 

Yes. It works fine, obviously.

best

David

JRHardee posted:

Serious cable dressing is out of the question for the same reason.

Cable dressing is a state of mind, not a technique!! Apply yourself methodically, bit by bit, and eventually you will find that it is possible to create order out of chaos.

With my room space being relatively small, I would be more concerned about moving the stacked rig to a corner or area where there are strong nodes and standing waves. Between the speakers can be more benign sometimes.

joerand posted:

As for a direct response to the content of your post, rather than the topic, I agree wholeheartedly with number 4;

Consciousmess posted:

4) Place your system not between speakers but far AWAY to the side.

I've tried it both ways and spending the extra bucks on additional lengths of NACA5 to get my system rack from between the speakers was a very worthy upgrade. Probably the best advice I've gotten from a dealer who loaned me the longer cables and implored me to give it a try. Interesting how many in the "System Pics" thread have their gear centered between the speakers, often with a TV smack in the middle.

Many years ago, (1980's), both Linn & Naim representatives would demonstrate to dealers the effect of putting a loudspeaker, (not connected, just sitting on the floor), into a sound lounge where you had set up a single system as best you could. There was a marginal deterioration. The point was that the extra speaker/s worked as a passive radiator.  And if you were trying to really demonstrate a top hifi you needed to take care. Don't be lazy and just have random speakers lying around your sound lounge, (or lounge room at home). Makes it hard sometimes for a dealer to display and house his stock, but not a issue in the home you would think.

Of course TV's have speakers integrated, which do deteriorate the sound also. This is even when you have bypassed the tv speakers and put the sound through your hifi. So we started either using monitor screens in our av set ups or removing the speakers from the TV's. Small gains, easily derided by some, but a real improvement we thought. Just a bit of a hassle.

Add to this the effect of a rather large, flat hard reflective surface between your speakers and the problem of a tv becomes greater. I have my tv between the speakers, but set back about 300mm from the front face of the speakers. I opted for a modest screen size, have removed the inbuilt speakers, and it sits on a low minimalist stand, (so the top edge of the tv is below the plane of the s400 BMRs). Even with all this though, if I take my tv away the sound is better. 

And then you come to the stack of black boxes sitting between your speakers. My electronics are housed in an alcove behind and to the side. I designed the cabinet to emulate, (sonically), a continuation of the rear wall. No Fraim as yet, (it's on the list, but after a lot of other things), but definitely superior to the boxes sitting between the speakers.

I have also tried a few times in my own home introducing a passive loudspeaker into the room, (my trusty n-sats). I still can pick the difference. Ivor and Julian were not tricking us!. Admittedly it's not huge, (but a lot of our little tweeks and rituals are like this), but I think it's real.

I appreciate it's not possible for all this to happen for all people. We all have constraints. But time after time I see the truth that a well set up modest system can be musically more satisfying than a better one with some dubious set up choices.

....don't forget those who have a fireplace between the speakers. Must act as a secondary passive anti-radiating Helmholzt Resonator..

JRHardee posted:

I'm constrained to having the stacks between the speakers. Serious cable dressing is out of the question for the same reason. I've been thinking about drilling holes in the floor and running the speaker wires thru the crawl space underneath to minimize the spaghetti. Has anyone tried this? 

Exactly what I've done and recommend it for anyone able to do so. My speaker cables are suspended below my floor joists. Easy to manage the unruly NACA5 and no concern for cable elevators . Be sure not to skimp on your speaker cable lengths -  allow some slack for future speaker position variations.

TOBYJUG posted:

With my room space being relatively small, I would be more concerned about moving the stacked rig to a corner or area where there are strong nodes and standing waves. Between the speakers can be more benign sometimes.

At the room boundaries (i.e. in the corners  particularly), air pressure variation is at maximum, but air movement is minimised.

So is something is more affected by air movement or kinetic energy than by pressure, then the corner of the room is the best place for it.

(Your ears are sensitive to pressure, but quite insensitive to air movement, which is why the bass sounds loudest in the corners.  Actually the total energy [potential+kinetic] is the same throughout the room.)

If I were to have the luxury of separate rooms, I would have a stereo only room with nothing between the speakers.  As it is, I only have one room so the stereo system is complemented by surround bits too.  Which means TV between the speakers, otherwise surround would be a bit pointless.

So that is a compromise.  All of us have to live with compromises of one kind or another.  My stereo listening is slightly compromised, but my movie watching is massively enhanced - a reasonable trade-off.  But to reduce the compromise the TV is pushed as far back as is possible in the room and its always possible to drape it with a thick blanket (switched off at the mains to avoid heat build-up of course) should I wish to minimise the impact of it being there.

So its good to get advice on these things, but some posts seem to be very much critical of the choices people have made.  Advice is great, but its only advice, its not the law.

sunbeamgls posted:

If I were to have the luxury of separate rooms, I would have a stereo only room with nothing between the speakers.  As it is, I only have one room so the stereo system is complemented by surround bits too.  Which means TV between the speakers, otherwise surround would be a bit pointless.

 

That suggests the ideal is a listening position with nothing between the ears...(!)

My solution re TV is a projector with a (decently large) screen that can drop down when wanted. But instead of a TV screen, when the screen is up what is there between the speakers is a lovely large window looking out on the garden and view beyond. Lovely for the eyes, but not ideal of course for sound reflections! The screen doubles as a blind, and softens reflections ever so slightly when it is down, but not enough to warrant lowering whenever I listen.

I have always kept my other gear at the side or back of the room, mainly because I get no pleasure from staring at a set of boxes and indicator lights, however the advent of remote controls can restrict placement options, depending on type. (And when I last had a turntable it was on a rack in a cupboard to reduce feedback and keep dust and inquisative fingers away).

"But instead of a TV screen, when the screen is up what is there between the speakers is a lovely large window looking out on the garden and view beyond. Lovely for the eyes, but not ideal of course for sound reflections!"

I am in the same bind when it come to the windows, (no projector). Got myself some natural fiber curtains to help with the reflectivity but in the end, you have to live too. I'm lucky in that I have no "rear" wall, my room is the family/kitchen/dining and my couch back faces a walkway behind.

My partner thinks I have nothing between the ears too.

Innocent Bystander posted:

That suggests the ideal is a listening position with nothing between the ears...(!)
...

You obviously know me then. 

When you consider that most posters here are grown men, (just an aside, are there any ladies on this forum?), spending extraordinary amounts for little black boxes to make noises in our lounges, I would opine that none of us have much between our golden ears.

Yes indeed there are a number of ladies here.

Huge posted:

Yes indeed there are a number of ladies here.

Ah! That is great!

Huge posted:

Yes indeed there are a number of ladies here.

That is very pleasant for you, I'm sure (hope!), but are any of them on the forum 

ChrisSU posted:

JRHardee posted:

Serious cable dressing is out of the question for the same reason.

Cable dressing is a state of mind, not a technique!! Apply yourself methodically, bit by bit, and eventually you will find that it is possible to create order out of chaos.

When dressing cables do you have to check whether to dress left or right?

(Presumably applies only if they end in plugs (male) as opposed to in-line sockets.)

Innocent Bystander posted:

ChrisSU posted:

JRHardee posted:

Serious cable dressing is out of the question for the same reason.

Cable dressing is a state of mind, not a technique!! Apply yourself methodically, bit by bit, and eventually you will find that it is possible to create order out of chaos.

When dressing cables do you have to check whether to dress left or right?

(Presumably applies only if they end in plugs (male) as opposed to in-line sockets.)

Cable dressing for the ladies involves making sure everything's true and not wonky.

TOBYJUG posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

ChrisSU posted:

JRHardee posted:

Serious cable dressing is out of the question for the same reason.

Cable dressing is a state of mind, not a technique!! Apply yourself methodically, bit by bit, and eventually you will find that it is possible to create order out of chaos.

When dressing cables do you have to check whether to dress left or right?

(Presumably applies only if they end in plugs (male) as opposed to in-line sockets.)

Cable dressing for the ladies involves making sure everything's true and not wonky.

And nothing unintentionally visible.

Actually that sounds good for the hifi ... as long as it sounds good.