Naim app update. Is it just me

Thanks for the info London Lad. Could you try settings > Other settings > Clear Image cache

does that affect the overall running speed? (unlikely to change the reconnection behaviour)

TJ posted:

RE having to select your product on each app launch. I can only reproduce this by forcibly quitting the app and relaunching it

Quite [@mention:1566878603988063] that's exactly the point. It's a change in the latest update and it's irritating. Why, please, do you say "only"? What's more, I infer from HH's first reply in this topic that this very point was picked up in beta testing. I don't leave any apps running in "background state" and it's clear from comments in this thread that I am not alone. The adverse change in the latest app version needs to be reversed asap.

I leave the app running all the time but every time I open the iPad to choose more music or change volume it's back at the rooms page. It is really irritating, as previously it went to the now playing screen, which is what one would expect. Grrr.

This was indeed picked up in beta testing, along with other things, and raised with Naim. For some reason they chose to release it anyway - I'm assuming that getting the new models working has trumped the desire for a good user experience for the thousands of current owners. It really is most frustrating. 

TJ posted:

@bpenny, I think you need to enable "tap for options", this is in settings > Other settings. Tap the question mark at the top of the settings menu for an explanation of what this setting is for

RE having to select your product on each app launch. I can only reproduce this by forcibly quitting the app and relaunching it but when the app goes to the background state then back again it automatically reconnects as expected. Sometimes if you have lots of other apps running iOS can force close an app that has been backgrounded. If you close down other running apps does the reconnection problem go away?

Tom

That's fine but I (and I would imagine most people) don't want to leave the app running in the background all the time and never had to do that before.

The selecting rooms 'feature' has been around for a while i think.

I quite like it because if you have two Naim products, it would sometimes default to the last one used and fire it up automatically when you opened the App.

Irritating when you are in a different room.

TJ posted:

Thanks for the info London Lad. Could you try settings > Other settings > Clear Image cache

does that affect the overall running speed? (unlikely to change the reconnection behaviour)

Possibly a slight improvement. Selecting tracks in upnp and the volume control lag is still noticeable.

Personally my main problem by far is the constant 'finding rooms' every time the app starts. If you have background music playing and want to take a phone call for instance it can take anything from 15 seconds to 2 minutes to turn down or mute the volume. In my case its worse as my kit isn't in my listening area so I can't even turn the volume control down on the 272 and I have had to dig out the remote control which I have never had to use before.

London Lad posted:

TJ posted:

Thanks for the info London Lad. Could you try settings > Other settings > Clear Image cache

does that affect the overall running speed? (unlikely to change the reconnection behaviour)

Possibly a slight improvement. Selecting tracks in upnp and the volume control lag is still noticeable.

Personally my main problem by far is the constant 'finding rooms' every time the app starts. If you have background music playing and want to take a phone call for instance it can take anything from 15 seconds to 2 minutes to turn down or mute the volume. In my case its worse as my kit isn't in my listening area so I can't even turn the volume control down on the 272 and I have had to dig out the remote control which I have never had to use before.

It's the finding rooms thing every time you pick up the app that made me abandon beta testing 5.7 and go back to 5.6

Often the only way that I could see all the rooms and select the one I wanted so I could adjust the volume or skip a track was to kill and restart the app. But I could see that my iPad running 5.6 could always still see all of the rooms instantly when I opened up that app from wherever it had been left last.

best

David

Hungryhalibut posted:

I leave the app running all the time but every time I open the iPad to choose more music or change volume it's back at the rooms page. It is really irritating, as previously it went to the now playing screen, which is what one would expect. Grrr.

I've been previously championing the naim app as it was working perfectly well for me. 

Now with 5.7.1 - i keep seeing the rooms page!!!!!!!!

FIX IT NOW OR LET US GO BACK TO 5.6. 

Core, Atom, apps; Paul, reviens. S'il te plait. Please.. 

Chag -

Hi all,

I am trying to understand physical difference between your symptoms and mine as the app works perfectly on the latest update with no lag or delay on startup, changing the volume or using uPNP with various servers.

Only thing that is similar is the screen defaults back to "find rooms" overtime I start back up again.  But its instant so causing me no pain.

Furthermore I have tested and used the latest version app on both iPhone 7 and iPad Air (both running latest IOS 10.3) and I certainly have not got the app setting so it runs in the background all the time fine on both devices.

My setup on the Naim side is a ND5 (wired), Naim XS2 (linked via RC5 cable to streamer) with a Synology NAS DJ215.  Also got a backup Synology DJ115 and that fine to.

As an IT network guy, the "symptoms" being described, since the app update sound like a network IP DNS issue.  I believe the find room relies on resolving the streamer name to an IP address and that uses something called DNS in your router to do this.  If this is misconfigured and the application has changed the behaviour of the way the app resolves the DNS streamer name to an IP address, this would result in a very long time to find the room device or browse the uPNP library.  

So to help find a temporary work around, everyone may want to check they using DHCP for all devices on the network with the DNS being automatically configured to use your ISP provided router.

So for example when i check the configuration of my streamer and IOS devices that use DHCP I have the same address for both router and DNS server e.g 192.168.x.1.  Alternatively if static addresses are being used, again check that the DNS has been set manually to use the local router address.  No google, SKY or BT DNS addresses should be configured as that will cause a mismatch between devices on the lookup.  They all need to have the same DNS configuration.

Just a thought as something to check, as this way mine configured.

BTW - sorry don't mean to rub salt in wounds and agree application release should have been better managed but really don't understand why mine working and yours is not.

John

John,  as a beta test team member I've seen my fair share of this.   Your suggestions make sense,  but sorry to say my system is just as you suggest.  Its all wired, via a switch, & has been faultless up to the introduction of these currently troublesome app(s)     I've tried Static IP & normally set to DHCP,  plus a number of other ideas/tricks best not expanded on.    Most times the app works on my system as expected;  then for no reason that is either repeatable or logical it goes into finding rooms mode.   (this will always happen on an iPad power cycle).    I've queried it re IP address & it is logged correctly & clearly in the app,  I've both manually entered IP & allowed the app to find it,  all that works correctly.    I also get a frozen (locked) spinning wheel problem with iRadio,  again not consistent & repeatable.       This has all gone flaky since a while back,  but one thing is beyond doubt its something relatively new & it seems to be related to attempting to get existing & new platform units working on the same app(s)

I suspect that your currently well working app will go to finding rooms & its just a matter of time.   

Mike please check the DNS settings specifically to make sure they are the same, was the summary of my recommendation.  On both NAS and application client.  It's not a speed of network connectivity issue with your wired connectivity but rather name of the streamer not being found on the domain name server(s) and this was my hunch based on network experience causing the delays.  The DNS setting is not in the naim application but under IP settings on iOS device/ streamer. John 

Big John posted:

Mike please check the DNS settings specifically to make sure they are the same, 

Checked OK

Interesting you think happens overtime which may also indicate also a cache issue of some kind within the router resolving the name to the wrong IP address.

I have had update since Saturday and still no issues despite some moderate use.  

I have also got switched off things like "back to Mac" in my network on my Apple Macs and uPNP switched off on the main router.  Again a common error was for these protocols to interfere with some of the streaming (overtime) and VPN server access that I use. 

Only place uPNP is running is on my NAS drive and HP printer with aim to keep network as clean as possible.  Again maybe worth a double check??

Big John posted:

Interesting you think happens overtime which may also indicate also a cache issue of some kind within the router resolving the name to the wrong IP address.

Only place uPNP is running is on my NAS drive and HP printer with aim to keep network as clean as possible.  Again maybe worth a double check??

I only have UPnP running on audio.    Printers etc are steam powered plug in ethernet.  

Re router cache possibility;  I've recently changed wireless hubs & nothing changed as a result with  the Naim app that I can detect.       

Big John,  to add to the above;  I assume a Naim owner would expect to have a system that,   providing it follows the basics of network connectivity,  that DHCP & DNS set by ISP & other wireless routers for 'consumer' level default(s)  must work as simple plug & play with the Naim app(s).       I will add that Linn Kinsky works OK for UPnP (NAS) replay with finding rooms on my NDX. 

Updated my iPad to 10.3.2.  No change - 5.7.1 is still "finding rooms" after minimizing the app for any significant length of time.  This is with a single room (NDS running 4.4).  

I would have expected the default behavior to remain the same - to reconnect to my room. And given I only have one room, I would have expected the default startup behavior to be to connect to my one room. Perhaps, I n the future, Naim could offer a setting for multiroom setups, with the choices being "find rooms" or reconnect to last used room?

Totally agree that this new behavior is a unnecessary hassle, and is hopefully fixed soon!

Big John posted:

Hi all,

I am trying to understand physical difference between your symptoms and mine as the app works perfectly on the latest update with no lag or delay on startup, changing the volume or using uPNP with various servers.

Only thing that is similar is the screen defaults back to "find rooms" overtime I start back up again.  But its instant so causing me no pain.

Furthermore I have tested and used the latest version app on both iPhone 7 and iPad Air (both running latest IOS 10.3) and I certainly have not got the app setting so it runs in the background all the time fine on both devices.

My setup on the Naim side is a ND5 (wired), Naim XS2 (linked via RC5 cable to streamer) with a Synology NAS DJ215.  Also got a backup Synology DJ115 and that fine to.

As an IT network guy, the "symptoms" being described, since the app update sound like a network IP DNS issue.  I believe the find room relies on resolving the streamer name to an IP address and that uses something called DNS in your router to do this.  If this is misconfigured and the application has changed the behaviour of the way the app resolves the DNS streamer name to an IP address, this would result in a very long time to find the room device or browse the uPNP library.  

So to help find a temporary work around, everyone may want to check they using DHCP for all devices on the network with the DNS being automatically configured to use your ISP provided router.

So for example when i check the configuration of my streamer and IOS devices that use DHCP I have the same address for both router and DNS server e.g 192.168.x.1.  Alternatively if static addresses are being used, again check that the DNS has been set manually to use the local router address.  No google, SKY or BT DNS addresses should be configured as that will cause a mismatch between devices on the lookup.  They all need to have the same DNS configuration.

Just a thought as something to check, as this way mine configured.

BTW - sorry don't mean to rub salt in wounds and agree application release should have been better managed but really don't understand why mine working and yours is not.

John

Hi John,

I am an IT professional FWIW.

I use a fixed IP for 'static' items in my home network such as hi fi, TVs etc, everything else uses DHCP provided by the router.

Everything uses the router for DNS (other than the WAN side of the router itself of course).

Just out of interest I changed the N272 to DHCP but it's just the same. The lag is noticeable compared to the previous version of the app but may not be noticeable as a 'bug' if this were the only version I had ever used.

The 'finding rooms' thing is definitely not right as the time it takes to display the N272 is so variable. Something has definitely changed in the app.

A word from Naim would be much appreciated. Very annoying to enter manually my ND5XS each time i use the app. Thanks to people who gives technical advice to make it work but the solution is definitely not coming from my side. I just expect that the app works as it was working before 5.7.1. This is not accceptable from such a respectable company . One thing preventing me from looking at other brands is...was the brilliant user interface. Let's hope Naim is working hard to update the app...but would be nice to know.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

other than I think it has very little to do with the actual network. <Chuckle> Nearly everyone blames the network when software doesn't work properly, home networks are usually quite benign things

Hi Simon,

We do find that a lot of the issues that do get flagged are generally down to the underlying network ... quite often routers that start dropping multicast / unicast traffic after a while, WiFi that starts to become unreliable after a period of time or Ethernet Over Mains devices that are just not working correctly.

I have BT internet at home and the HH5 that we have works for a few days before it starts to get flaky for WiFi if we run the entire network off it. Now I use it just as a gateway to the internet with a half-decent cable router inside (currently a LinkSys EA7500) and all my network (including discovery) is as solid as a rock.

The app itself doesn't use any 'backdoor' methods for autodetection of devices on the network and doesn't require any odd functionality (which we're often asked about) - just something that is stable and reliable...

Cheers

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

other than I think it has very little to do with the actual network. <Chuckle> Nearly everyone blames the network when software doesn't work properly, home networks are usually quite benign things

Hi Simon,

We do find that a lot of the issues that do get flagged are generally down to the underlying network ... quite often routers that start dropping multicast / unicast traffic after a while, WiFi that starts to become unreliable after a period of time or Ethernet Over Mains devices that are just not working correctly.

I have BT internet at home and the HH5 that we have works for a few days before it starts to get flaky for WiFi if we run the entire network off it. Now I use it just as a gateway to the internet with a half-decent cable router inside (currently a LinkSys EA7500) and all my network (including discovery) is as solid as a rock.

The app itself doesn't use any 'backdoor' methods for autodetection of devices on the network and doesn't require any odd functionality (which we're often asked about) - just something that is stable and reliable...

Cheers

Phil

Not to seem rude but are you looking into this problem?

Fourteen posted:

A word from Naim would be much appreciated. Very annoying to enter manually my ND5XS each time i use the app. Thanks to people who gives technical advice to make it work but the solution is definitely not coming from my side. I just expect that the app works as it was working before 5.7.1. This is not accceptable from such a respectable company . One thing preventing me from looking at other brands is...was the brilliant user interface. Let's hope Naim is working hard to update the app...but would be nice to know.

I have seen from internal discussions that the software guys have been through this thread and have compiled bug reports of the issues reported here which are being reviewed.

Just summarising the issues that are reported here I see the following:

These two are being worked on...

• STEVEN2907 / LONDON LAD / NICK PEACOCK / HUNGRY HALIBUT / MIKE-B / HOOK / JSH - App going back to finding rooms when being rerun.
• ROOG / DAVID O HIGGINS – Slow discovery / discovery issues.

These four I need to get more information from you on...

• FOURTEEN - "App doesn't work on my iPad" - can you email me at support@naimaudio.com with specifics relating to exactly how the app doesn't work on your iPad?
• DOMTOMLONDON - "Flakey" - can you email me at support@naimaudio.com with specifics relating to exactly how the app is flakey?
• NO QUARTER – Core not playing - can you email me at support@naimaudio.com please to do some diagnosis.
• ALANDG – Can you email me at support@naimaudio.com to do some diagnosis with your issues.

These last two I suspect are unrelated to the app itself...

• JSH - Internet Radio issue - can you email me at support@naimaudio.com please to do some diagnosis.
• Mike-B - Locking up on return to internet radio - I believe you've had this issue for some time and I don't think it is specific to the updated app.

@PBENNY – UPnP adding tracks issue - Can you email me at support@naimaudio.com to let me know whether the suggestion made by Tom has resolved your issue?

I do understand that it is frustrating when a new app comes out and you have an issue and the immediate conclusion is that "it's broken" (and I understand that HH is saying that they raised the issue of the app going back to finding rooms in the Beta testing so I'm sure someone will be looking into why that wasn't picked up on) but the reality is that as of yesterday we had just under 60,000 downloads of the updated apps and are not being deluged by customers with issues.

I'll try to work with you to resolve your issues but - as always - it would be far more effective if we get direct contact if you need support.

Best

Phil

Thank you

Thanks a lot Phil ! I will email you shortly 

Thanks to TJ and Phil from NAIM for listening to us . Now with app 5.6 being back , the app is working as expected !