Effect of pulling your rack out from the middle

Sonically I don't know but it will almost certainly look better.

Ray

Due to room constraints I am forced to have my system rack in between my speakers and I've read many, many times that this is a sonic compromise and should be avoided at all costs.  

So, why is it that in many demo rooms at hifi shows the system is placed directly between the speakers.  Given that most of these dem rooms are more than big enough to position the equipment where it would sound the best and therefore impress more customers it strikes me as very odd.

Aric, as your new room is capable of both layouts why not do a direct comparison and report back. 

"...your new room is capable of both layouts why not do a direct comparison and report back" 

Yes, I will likely be in this position as it has taken quite a while to place on order a new, 4m length of Chord Shawline to replace my 2m Cobra. Not looking forward to breaking down the Fraim...again 

Once I lent a friend of mine surplus equipment including 42/Hicap/110 with some cheapo Pioneer CD player and some custom speakers. Although not an audiophile, he spent ages tweaking his room with strategic damping based purely on subjective listening tests. One day he called me and said he really wanted to show me something....He had been using the gear on a small 2 shelf rack located between the speakers. During his experiments, he had tried the equipment on the floor (also between the speakers) but removed the Target rack. The subjective differences were immediately obvious-the 'vortex' of soundstaging  (his non-audiophile way of describing what he was hearing) just collapsed into a wafer-thin 2-D soundscape when just the rack (without the equipment that remained on the floor) was placed between the speakers. 

This is among the most convincing hifi demo I have ever heard, and done with quite unpretentious gear. The rack itself was a detriment to the performance when placed between the speakers-with or without the equipment sited on it. 

That's a good point about hifi shows placing the rack in the middle when there is more room; however, how many times do you see dealers do the same thing at their digs? I guess it's likely all down to focusing the listener to stare at the gear. 

What's that, a print ad; sure, throw in an attractive female yearning to touch the component...that'll make it sound better. 

Most loudspeakers actually have the tweeters and the mid bass drivers wired out of phase with each other in order to provide a more flat response without a dip in that all important cross over region. This obviously results in the way it radiates sound. These types of speakers will be more sensitive to close boundaries.

Plenty of speaker designs eschew this by clever crossovers, or indeed no crossovers. 

One factor to consider is the cost of speaker cable.  Fortunately, NACA5 is relatively inexpensive, so siting the components to the side (which has always sounded better to me) is a realistic option.

Johnell posted:

Aric, as your new room is capable of both layouts why not do a direct comparison and report back. 

Aric posted:

Not looking forward to breaking down the Fraim...again 

I agree with Johnell. Seems a preemptive post - I'm doing this what should I expect?

What are you looking for here? Cheerleaders to cajole you into moving your Fraim?

It also depends on whether the equipment is more sensitive to air movement or air pressure.  Without knowing this it's irrelevant as all it will do is alter the balance of effects that are very minor by comparison to the effect of the construction of the room and of conducted vibration.

The effect of acoustic scattering may be relevant, but it's irrelevant whether this is from the HiFi rack or any other acoustically solid object.

.....Less inclination to pull out the vacuum cleaner.

I don't care what hi-fi furniture you put in between your speakers: in the real (not Mana) world, this type of obstruction diffracts the wave fronts and produces a whole lot of 'apparent' sources from each edge, since these arrive at later times some can be discounted (in a big room, maybe) due to Haas effect, but the majority will seriously affect your soundstage especially when using speakers with wide dispersion and which are not set forward of the obstruction.

Julian Vereker (December 02, 1999 09:15 AM ! )

My system sits between the speakers. Years ago, if I played an LP at high volume, the needle would eventually start skipping across the record. Hanging some pictures above the TT fixed the problem.

Depth.. ??   I was led to believe that traditional Naimites weren't that bothered if the drumming came from behind the wall and way back in the neighbours garden.  More forward locked around the cranium, yes ?

It doesn't matter if there is a rack or book cabinet between the speakers. Just as long as the front of the speakers are is in front of the rack/cabinet and the distance to back wall and side walls is optimised. You be surprised to hear more presence than in free space. 

joerand posted:

Johnell posted:

Aric, as your new room is capable of both layouts why not do a direct comparison and report back. 

 

Aric posted:

Not looking forward to breaking down the Fraim...again 

I agree with Johnell. Seems a preemptive post - I'm doing this what should I expect?

What are you looking for here? Cheerleaders to cajole you into moving your Fraim?

Not looking for your response, that's for sure - you always seem to make a habit of being an ass. Move on to another thread. 

Robiwan posted:

It doesn't matter if there is a rack or book cabinet between the speakers. Just as long as the front of the speakers are is in front of the rack/cabinet and the distance to back wall and side walls is optimised. You be surprised to hear more presence than in free space. 

I have always maintained at least 6" separation between front baffle of speaker and whatever was between them. While obviously constrained by room logistics, I was able to move the speakers further out - when I wanted to go through the exercise - increasing the distance to as much as 3'. They were a sealed design and didn't need a back wall to reinforce/shape the bass. AFAIR, there was gradual improvement in doing this, soundstage and muscial cohesion, but it seemed less of a benefit the further out the speakers were. So maybe something like 1' out was optimal. 

Just curious if moving the rack completely out of the way provides further benefits. 

Thanks for sharing your experience(s).

Aric posted:

joerand posted:

Johnell posted:

Aric, as your new room is capable of both layouts why not do a direct comparison and report back. 

 

Aric posted:

Not looking forward to breaking down the Fraim...again 

I agree with Johnell. Seems a preemptive post - I'm doing this what should I expect?

What are you looking for here? Cheerleaders to cajole you into moving your Fraim?

Not looking for your response, that's for sure - you always seem to make a habit of being an ass. Move on to another thread. 

Speaking of asses, you would be best served by getting your ass into gear rather than directing me where to respond. Do the deed if you please and tell us what you found. All else is speculation.

Breaking down the Fraim?  Wah!

Long ago I moved my system out from between the speakers, paid for additional cables and found it well worth the cost. You can consider that encouragement coming from an ass. Otherwise, keep your Fraim in the middle and continue to wonder about the results.