What is the purpose of additional outputs if Naim doesn't recommend them?

In the case of a 300 or 500 you need two of the outputs anyway but most of all its flexibility for different customers and their various needs. Whilst Naim don't advocate passive Bi / Tri-amping it works for some. 

My understanding is that Naim acknowledges that with some speaker designs biamping can have benefits but they have always designed speakers that don't benefit.

james n posted:

In the case of a 300 or 500 you need two of the outputs anyway but most of all its flexibility for different customers and their various needs.

{Whilst Naim don't advocate passive Bi / Tri-amping it works for SOME.}

+2

Especially if one is on the Path to an Naim Active System. The three outputs, located on the rear of my HCDR, delivers the signals to three 250.2s.

Hence, passive Tri-Amped Briks!

Naim definitely, frowns upon bi-wiring, which is not conducive to the design of NAIM amps.

However, Naim doesn't have a beef, with Passive  Tri-Amping, or Bi-Amping.

But to James point, Naim believes, that a Speaker Manufacture could have designed their speakers to perform in the same manner, without the bi-wiring Sales Pitch!  { SOME }

With that being said, LINN designed their Speakers to be utilized with their upgrade path, in the same manner, that NAIM designs their Electronics to be utilized in their upgrade path.

But when it's all said and done, Naim, Linn, Vivid, just to Naim a few, believes that the purist route to the Speakers Drivers is the Active Route.

Getting a bit long winded, with this voice activating texting, but Just wanted to elaborate on James N's reply.

Allante93!

Adam Meredith posted:

Consciousmess posted:

This would imply passive biamping....  It also may be for subwoofer output...

So I ask you, why have additional outputs ... ?

Why would Consciousmess ask (additional) additional questions when he already has the answers?

To give us something to talk about, also new members can utilize your infinite wisdom, as it pertains to Naim:

FAQs, Thanks HH!

All used in my active NBL system - with 3 x 250's.

I suspect I'm being dim, but how come, when the three 250s are connected to a Snaxo?

I thought the SNAXO is connected to the supercap, through which everything goes. Or maybe I need to take another look to remind myself!

Knock me down with a feather - Burndy to SNAXO then SNAXO to 3 x 250's. I stand corrected :-)

I used to, in my previous house, use one of the extra outputs on the Supercap to route audio to another amp, to give me music in other areas of the house - sort of primitive multi-room.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I suspect I'm being dim, but how come, when the three 250s are connected to a Snaxo?

The Snaxo is taking the place of the crossover that is located within the Speaker, there by, Naim's external electronic crossover.

But now, the idea situation, has been put in place. Depending on the Speakers design, (2 way or 3 way), the signals are directed to the drivers, which handle that particular frequency range.

There by, eliminating Phase Distortion, that is incumbent, in the most expensive Speakers in the Market!

Maybe a typo, I'm quite sure, the Big Fish is aware of this!

Voice Activated Texting, button here, button there, etc....

Allante93!

PS. I get it now

Pretty Clever HH, better yet, witty!

Consciousmess posted:

For example the Supercap 2, the 552    power supply?

This would imply passive biamping, something advised against (by Naim).  It also may be for subwoofer output, but again very few use a subwoofer in stereo mode (if one's speakers are good enough there is no need, plus all the frequencies come from the same speaker).

So I ask you, why have additional outputs if it theoretically degrades performance?

I can somehow understand the underlying message of your post. Why have additional outputs if they theoretically degrade performance. Instead of degradation in sound quality, I would be more inclined to say it's a case of requirement. Why have additional outputs if you don't require them.

Personally I believe passive biamping has its benefits. It will improve instead of degrade performance ONLY if implemented correctly by using the same power amps to drive the bass and treble, and speaker cables of the same type and length. This is the ideal configuration. The only issue is it may not the best method to achieve higher level of sound reproduction unless the loudspeakers are truly a difficult load.

One can also use different amplifiers in passive biamping, say the NAP300 driving the bass and NAP250DR driving the treble, or the NAP250DR driving the bass and NAP200 driving the treble. I've tried the latter and it sounds different than using NAP 250DR alone driving both treble and bass with jumpers connected. Some days I felt the passive biamp sounded better, some days the single amp better. In the end, I reverted to the single amp as I couldn't make up my mind.  In my mind, the different cables that were used with the amps (NAC A5 and Chord Epic Twin on both amps) were a compromise, doing more harm than good. A potpourri of  mess with the cables and different amps. Having said that, my speakers are fairly an easy load. If the speakers present a difficult load, the benefits of passive biamping may be better appreciated although the setup may be a compromise (different amps and cables).

"What is the purpose of additional outputs...."

I previously have this concern as well, not specific to the power supplies but preamps. Well,  I guess it's the Naim's way of getting owners to climb the upgrade ladder. With the 282, there is an unused output to connect another power supply if one is only using a Hicap to power the 282. The unused output can be connected with another Hicap or a Supercap. In other words, the unused output can be used to achieve better(or different) sound quality. If one has the Supercap connected to the 282, he would be wondering about the unused output that requires the Burndy cable. And that can only connect to the 252.

It may not be so much about passive biamping or connecting a subwoofer with additional outputs, but looking at a wider scope, the additional outputs may be useful in few ways..

I hear you Ryder, and the first comparison within my dwellings, will be SC vs HCDR!

But for me, it really doesn't matter, the SC will be powering the Snaxo.

Of course the HCDR could also power the Snaxo, but then the Burndy could not be utilized!

Furthermore, I suspect, the difference between the HCDR & SC is subtle, as it relates to the 282!

But I wasn't aware that Naim Speakers couldn't be passively bi, or tri-amped, until HH & Mr Richard Dane brought it to my attention.

My Briks are unique in that instance!

But it appears that your Speakers, can also handle the task!

Allante93!

Bi-Amping

Richard Dane posted:

"Well, for the benefit of others and just to avoid any possible confusion here; while it's true that you can't passively bi-amp a pair of SL2s, you can actively bi-amp them by removing the passive crossover and using an appropriate active crossover and additional amp(s). Same goes for SBLs, IBLs, later Intros, Credos and Allaes. DBLs and NBLs can be actively tri-amped in a similar way.

The point here is that in the realm of Naim, when Naim refer to bi-amping and tri-amping, it's taken as read that this means active rather than passive."

Harbeth Super HL5 Plus,  Nice looking Speakers, bet they sound Great! 

Passive with one amp or Passive with two Amps. 

And if you eliminate the Crossover in the bias box, even better with Naim's Snaxo, if that is possible, I don't know! 

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

I hear you Ryder, and the first comparison within my dwellings, will be SC vs HCDR!

But for me, it really doesn't matter, the SC will be powering the Snaxo.

Of course the HCDR could also power the Snaxo, but then the Burndy could not be utilized!

Furthermore, I suspect, the difference between the HCDR & SC is subtle, as it relates to the 282!

But I wasn't aware that Naim Speakers couldn't be passively bi, or tri-amped, until HH & Mr Richard Dane brought it to my attention.

My Briks are unique in that instance!

But it appears that your Speakers, can also handle the task!

Allante93!

 

 

You can always try the SCDR on the 282 instead of the Snaxo. Who knows you might find a larger transformation when the 282 is powered by the SCDR.  The 282/HCDR is staying put in my system though.

ryder. posted:

Allante93 posted:

I hear you Ryder, and the first comparison within my dwellings, {will} be SC vs HCDR!

But for me, it really doesn't matter, the SC {will} be powering the Snaxo.

Of course the HCDR {could} also power the Snaxo, but then the Burndy could not be utilized!

Furthermore, I {suspect}, the difference between the HCDR & SC is subtle, as it relates to the 282!

=======================

But I wasn't aware that Naim Speakers couldn't be passively bi, or tri-amped, until HH & Mr Richard Dane brought it to my attention.

My Briks are unique in that instance!

But it appears that your Speakers, can also handle the task!

Allante93!

You can always try the SCDR on the 282 instead of the Snaxo. Who knows you might find a larger transformation when the 282 is powered by the SCDR.  The 282/HCDR is staying put in my system though.

Sounds Great, but all I have at the moment is:

Passive Tri-Amped Briks

Cdx2>282>HCDR>3 × 250.2s> 1988 Briks

Fraimlite Naim Cups & Balls

Need some Glass~ NOW!!!!!!! 

1976 - 1986 Briks, couldn't be ran in the manner that I run mine!

My Crossover is located in Stand beneath the Speakers.

Hence, my Briks have been ran with: LINN

A single LK 280

Bi-Amped with an LK 280 & Spark

Tri-Amped with 3 x LK 280s

Full Blown Aktiv with Bingo Card

============$$$$==================

Naim

Bi-Amped with Nap 250.2 & Nap 200

Tri-Amped with 3 x 250.2s - NOW!

Next purchase SC

Christmas~ Snaxo 362

Done! 

2 other Non-Naim System to Enjoy!

Allante93!

Nice Allante. Do keep us updated once you managed to get both pieces into the system, especially the Supercap. So the Supercap will come before Christmas. You are surely in for a treat with your triamped NAP 250.2. 

What is the purpose of the tape outs which nobody uses anymore? 

Robiwan posted:

What is the purpose of the tape outs which nobody uses anymore? 

I use them for recording and headphone amp  replay... really useful feature, I just love how Naim allow you to decouple the main pre out from the secondary line out ... really nice feature

To further what Simon says, I believe you get a direct signal from the source to tape-outs. The volume and balance circuits are not in the chain.

I use the tape-out on my Supernait to drive a Nait-2 in another room.  Source selection is from the 'record' button row & it's a very nice convenient arrangement for my situation.   The tape out stage is buffered so does nor afffect input loading. 

Robiwan posted:

What is the purpose of the tape outs which nobody uses anymore? 

To generate forum traffic. (And as you can see by this response, those pesky tape outs have succeeded).

I'm another who finds the TAPE OUTs really useful - particularly the ability to apply separate mute and mono control to the tape circuit.  In fact, I could do with a couple more than the three that come with the pre-amp.

Robiwan posted:

What is the purpose of the tape outs which nobody uses anymore? 

Feeding an ADC so I can rip vinyl for playing in the car.

Willy.