I think these financial and watch comparisons are a bit meaningless.

It's all about the performance. The 552 performs better than a 282, and there is no doubt about that.

I'm sure the S1 has even a bigger performance gap to the 552 than 552 to 282.

how else can Naim ask for 2.5 the price of 552 for an S1? 

ok I see DB has already clarified before I posted.

having said all this, after many many tests and experiments, I think we need to remember that no - preamp can actually improve on a source, it can only do increasingly less damage to the signal which originates from the source.

This weekend I had the luck to test again, Linn KDS/1 vs CD555 and a Chord Dave on a 552/500 system.

There are clear differences between all 3 sources, and I'm not sure that for example, a Naim S1 preamp upgrade from 552 can turn a KDS/1 streamer into a CD555. These have quite different voicing, and the brands of all 3 companies are easily identifiable.

All 3 sources play music quite differently and this is quite easily heard through a 552. I find it a big puzzling when preamps are referred to as having a character of their own, when in fact the very best preamps are not supposed to have any character at all.

I think based on what I can hear, more gains are to be had by choosing the very best source and, and then buy the preamp that one can afford, but only after maxing out the source.

That's what I did anyway, and I'm happy with my decision.

analogmusic posted:

well, it is after all, a matter of money.

It is a bit like saying I love my BMW 750, so why desire a Bentley

Or better still if you have a 430 Scuderia, a LA Ferrari, 918 or MC P1 blow the former into the weeds

Btw Mr answer should dispel any doubt.

Regards

Roberto

The existance of the Statement lets me describe my 552/500DR as humble.

analogmusic posted:

well, it is after all, a matter of money.

It is a bit like saying I love my BMW 750, so why desire a Bentley

Welcome back, Conscious Mess!

4 hours, and over 20 replies, I asked for an opinion from the Active Club 4 Days ago, zero!

But Analog has summed it up, in one word, Money!

But allow me to share, a brief episode, of how Money affected my disposition! 

Way back in 1995, I thought, what the heck a sports car!

Three choices came to mind!

Chrysler's Viper

Mercedes Benz 500 SL

Cadillac Allante

You guessed it, the last year they were produced, 1993!

Hence

Of course, I didn't fork out 65 K USD in 1993, but 45K in 1995 was no small potatoes!

Similar to an, 2015 open box 250.2, 4K full warranty kind of deal!

But it always felt nice, to sport top of the line Technology, at its best!

Especially when other sport car owners, complemented me and my car!

But the most fun, was when 2nd tier car owners, challenged me!

Of course, I was always on the look out, cruising 3 miles above the minium speed limit!

Those were the days, for the most part, The Brand New 32 value 295 HP North Star done it's job, even when I came across, the 325 HP Corvette!

When it's all said and done, your money may be long, but life is short!

Enjoy your Pre-Amp!

S1>552>252>282

Naim's Marque Separate Pre-Amps!

Allante93!

PS. S1 Active 500's with 800s!

Wow!

I would have called the monsters 'Understatements' to give the fanatics a clear hope that these are not the final words, just another step on the road of lunatic upgrades.

Darke Bear posted:

MDS posted:

 

The S1 just does a better job than the 552 - it was significantly better in the context of the rest of my system that it made sense, if anything at this price-point can be said to make sense.

When I first had my home-demo of the 552 it was clear it was in a different league of performance to the 252 ........

DB.

S1>552>252>282

Naim's Marque Separates

Didn't know you had posted DB, but as you can see I was point on!

Funny thing, one will never know unless they pull the trigger!

I'm not talking, test driving a Ferrari, but owning a Ferrari!

Allante93!

PS. Reply was delayed, my Cousin just pulled up in his Brand new 2 Seater Mercedes Benz!

Nice! Of course, I didn't ask him, how much!

S1 ~ 90K

I've had my 552 for just over four months now. I've now recovered from the financial hit, it's sounding very very good now (nearly as good as the demo one o borrowed) and I'm really happy with my system. I do a manual job and have to physically work to pay for anything, I'm not prepared to suffer endless hours on the tools to afford an S1. I'd like to work slightly less and enjoy my 552. That's my situation.

I've had the chance to compare the 552 vs S1.  The shop owner asked me bluntly, "Are you sure you want to do this....it's hard to go back".  He was right, the S1 was in another world compared to the 552.  It didn't take more than a few seconds of listening to hear the difference.  With a significantly lowered noise floor, everything sounded more natural and real.  It's a remarkable achievement.  I only wish they'd build an Statement-integrated with a built-in streamer.  I'd be first in line to buy such a product.   

Consciousmess posted:

I need to challenge people here as if one looks through older posts, the 52 was once the bees knees.  Of course its updated model is better, but then the praise and words said for the 552 make one think THAT was the pinnacle.

No post says the 552 is lacking. None. So why desire the Statement?

(And how is the 52 now viewed?!)

Human fickleness is perplexing. Maybe that's the wrong word, but when the 'Statement 2' comes out, how will the Statement be commented on... e.g. "I was listening to superb hifi but now the band is properly in the room".

Curious, don't you think?

More detail, more space between the instruments, more body in the sound, 3d space, more slam in the bass etc this never ending detail in the recordings is my favorite 

Or because you can...

Or pride of ownership..

Or no drugs no girls no gambling this iş the only thing i can spend my money on...

But also budget wise some people's statement is some people's muso

If i had the funda i would buy it looks cool!

Can i use statement pre with 300dr? mono blocks are expensive

Frank F posted:

Going back to the watch analogy, I have a Seiko divers automatic, underwater you can't change a battery but you are always moving your arm.  More reliability, enjoyment and sufficient accuracy.

You can always relate this theme to analogue vs digital.

FF

Frank F , when my Casio packed up as mentioned I purchased a Citizen Eco Drive Titanium very light and no arm waving not sure whether this would be analogue , digital or a Hybrid ? either way a nice watch.  

I have recently changed over to a 552dr and it is fabulous ... the tonality and punchyness is pure Naim indulgence.... the gentleman I bought the 552dr from said..... 'the 272 opens the door a little the 552 is wide open.... and the S1 is the door wide open and the patio doors fully open!!!' 

Richieroo posted:

I have recently changed over to a 552dr and it is fabulous ... the tonality and punchyness is pure Naim indulgence.... the gentleman I bought the 552dr from said..... 'the 272 opens the door a little the 552 is wide open.... and the S1 is the door wide open and the patio doors fully open!!!' 

@ Richieroo

Excuse me OP, for going off topic, but Rich how is that DD 10 +, its been on my wish list for a long time!

2nd System:

Primare Pre 30

Arcam P 1 Mono Blocks

Arcam P35 Three Channel 

Emotiva surround sound processor

Vienna Acoustics Baby Grands> P1 monos

vienna Acoustics Grand Waltz> P35

Sold my Linn Sizmick 5 years ago, and never replaced it!

Thinking about an OLED!

Hence, DD 10 +

Allante93!

Hi the DD10+ has been one of the best things I have ever purchased ..... it is so tuneful tight and responsive .... you don't know it's there its like your speakers have grown in size 10 fold. The key is the excellent room sampling and equalisation so it ties in with your other speakers. I think the another important aspect is to have a small speaker with good fast bass control down to around 60hz and then cross over and integrate. Also have a look at the SVS 13 ultra sealed much cheaper but very impressive. My personal preference is for a sealed sub I think they are faster. The DD10+ will go down to 20hz easily .... and will work into moderate size rooms. Don't expect massive spls from a small sub....in hi fi terms it's perfect. 

Richieroo posted:

Hi the DD10+ has been one of the best things I have ever purchased ..... it is so tuneful tight and responsive .... you don't know it's there its like your speakers have grown in size 10 fold.....

The DD10+ will go down to 20hz easily .... and will work into moderate size rooms.

{Don't expect massive spls from a small sub....in hi fi terms it's perfect.}

 

Not that good with hi-fi jargon, what does spls stand for???

Otherwise, thanks for the info., just as I thought, fast quick, and small in stature!

Yet can achieve sonic low frequencies down to 20 hz.

Thanks!

Allante93!

sound pressure levels

Hi Chris Bell,

Which source did you hear when you compared 552 to S1 preamp?

Interesting thread, in a way, being quite familiar with the 282, 252, 552 and S1 I do think they have different styles.. to my ears the 552 is more forward and in some ways is a natural successor to the 282, where as I find  the 252 less forward and natural to my ears and seems to have more similarities with the S1... so if you really enjoy the 252 you may find the S1 really feels like it's natural sonic successor where as if you are more the 282 type person, then the 552 might seem the more natural evolution. Yes there are absolute performance terms involved but I do find the sonic traits quite interesting. 

I really enjoy the 252, and the S1 is on my lottery win list.... I have passed up on a 552 as although good I don't prefer it sufficiently compared to the sonic traits of my 252DR unlike the S1 ... whether that's relevant or not I don't know .. we all hear things differently.

interesting, that preamps have character of their own, when in fact at 252 and 552 level they aren't supposed for that kind of money.

Sources, on the other hand, well to me these have very distinct sonic traits (Naim source sounds different than Chord Source and Linn sources)

Ali, Naim believe the NAC lies at the heart of an audio replay system... and therefore perhaps not surprising they therefore introduce or even spot light the traits that one enjoys.. What I am less sure of is that Naim set out to define a particular preamp is forward, or this one is laid back.. I suspect this evolves through development and listening tuning.

analogmusic posted:

interesting, that preamps have character of their own, when in fact at 252 and 552 level they aren't supposed for that kind of money.

Sources, on the other hand, well to me these have very distinct sonic traits (Naim source sounds different than Chord Source and Linn sources)

 I always thought all preamps are "supposed to be" completely neutral and so not have a character of their own but the reality is they are imperfect and they do have characters. (Also, if the 252 had no Effect on the sound then there would be no difference in sound with the 552, let alone the Statement.

Also, the impression given on this forum is that Naim preamps which are the key to the "Naim sound" - is that not a form of audible character?

analogmusic posted:

interesting, that preamps have character of their own, when in fact at 252 and 552 level they aren't supposed for that kind of money.

Interesting indeed. I've found that any new device, regardless of cost, introduced into the listening chain will produce a detectable sonic change. For me these have included secondary contributors like power cables, interconnects, speaker cables, power strips and outlets. I'd expect the change from primary gear like the preamp would be readily be more profound, although I've only ever owned integrateds, so can't truly separate the abilities of the pre from the amp.

OTOH, I'd guess if the 252 and 552 had no supposed distinct character between them most rational people would opt for the cheaper box and the 552 would no longer persist. 

Darke Bear posted:

The DR upgrade to the 552 took it further along, but I'd not say it was as big an upgrade to the basic musical performance of the 552 as the DR upgrade was to the 500 Amp, which was staggering to me.

DB.

Yep, I'd go along with that DB. Having had my 500s DRd, I'm increasingly impressed with how good the system sounds. Anyway, the other day you asked me if I was going to try the S1. Well, I've heard yours and Signals' one but I'll not be trying one in my system unless I win the Lottery - a forlorn hope as I don't buy tickets. I've made the mistake of "Just giving X a try, out of curiosity" in the past. I've no doubt it'd sound wonderful in my system but then the system's really singing as it is. Best not to know...

Hungryhalibut posted:

I wasn't aligning the Casio watch with the 552, for the benefit of the more literal minded. The point was that if you have a Casio and it tells the time, why do you want a Rolex? It's like one's hifi - it plays music quite happily, so why do you want something better? There are many reasons of course and that's down to the individual. It's about deciding what's 'good enough', and that's different for different people. 

There is another question that the OP might like to ask - what's your hifi to house price ratio? What's you hifi to car price ratio? The list is endless, and all it reveals is that different people have different priorities. 

Well in 1984 my hifi at retail price, (I bought mine second hand, as a trade in and as a dealer so I was lucky), cost 85% of the value of my house in an inner city location, (2200m from the CBD). I actually sold the hifi to fund the house purchase. Today my hifi at retail is 4% of the value of my house. The real cost of hifi performance has plummeted, (I'm not saying my little toy is at the same level as my old glory days), and the real cost of housing in Australia has gone up by 2.5 times give or take.

I could buy a Statement/Some enormous loudspeaker here in Australia for say $500,000. My home today is worth about $650,000. And to be specific, both in 1984 and today I sit at about 110% of the average home cost.

I think a 252/300 based system with only slightly enormous speakers would blow away my old tri-amped Isobariks and in real terms be only 25% or so of what they cost back in the day. If I had my rathers, my next step if it happens is probably a 272/XPS/250 bolted onto my lowly S400's. I don't think I would go much further. Spend any extra spare cash on a holiday. As you say, different people have different priorities.

Allante93 posted:

Darke Bear posted:

MDS posted:

 

The S1 just does a better job than the 552 - it was significantly better in the context of the rest of my system that it made sense, if anything at this price-point can be said to make sense.

When I first had my home-demo of the 552 it was clear it was in a different league of performance to the 252 ........

DB.

S1>552>252>282

Naim's Marque Separates

Didn't know you had posted DB, but as you can see I was point on!

Funny thing, one will never know unless they pull the trigger!

I'm not talking, test driving a Ferrari, but owning a Ferrari!

Allante93!

PS. Reply was delayed, my Cousin just pulled up in his Brand new 2 Seater Mercedes Benz!

SL5502017

$110,800* MSRP

• Engine4.7L V8 biturbo
• Horsepower449
• Acceleration4.3 sec0 to 60 †

 

Nice! Of course, I didn't ask him, how much!

S1 ~ 90K

 

Not Speaking from experience, but I am familiar with the 282, nice pre-amp!

But that doesn't surprise me, way back in 2007, Naim felt it was worthy enough to debut  it's reference CDP.

The same CDP, DB is sporting this very moment!

2007 CES SHOW:

CD 555>282>Snaxo>3 x 250>The Iconic DBLS

All this from you Guys, and a fine Bunch you are:

The 252 is more laid back less forward than the 282. A more mature version of the 282. Mr Richard Dane adds, the 252 may be a better pre-amp than the 282, but more revealing.

Hence, the set up can be problematic, whereas the 282 is less problematic!

Now if you like the 282, and the what the 252 brings to the party, more Cash!

Right you are Analog! Money!

552 type of Money!

Now if you have the Loot, and curious what it would be like, to wake up every morning with an $90K USD/Mercedes-Benz Pre amp in your primary System, pull the Trigger! 

Naim's Statement to it's Competitors!

Our Finest Work, in the field that we Pioneered!

Naim Amps, paired with are S1 pre-amp!

But hold on a 552 ain't cheap, Guessing, about $20K Pounds, along with the extra SL Cabling!

The beauty of the S1, no PS! Only 50K GBP

JMHO, based on feedback from the Forum!

Allante93!

PS. Voice Activated Texting Please excuse errors!