If the 552 DR is so good, why desire the Statement?

whsturm posted:

I'm disappointed that there is no upgrade path for the statement. In the usual Naim style it could have had lots of supporting black boxes with upgrade options. Otherwise what does a statement owner do with their time when there are no tweaks to explore? 

That the rich way do most things, get the most expensive one and more on....

So would anyone considers to buy s1 pre for close to 552 pricing to use with 300/500nap? The power blocks makes all thing uber expensive

analogmusic posted:

All I'm saying is over the years I learnt small investments in cables from Chord cables and Vertere and affordable DAC like Mojo can give much more satisfaction than the upgrade boxes some of which are out of reach for me.

Do look into these, for example  the entry level Chord interconnect - clearway has some of the hi-end Tuned Aray technology from Sarum and sounds superb to me.

Same with DFI range from Vertere, real game changing sound.

I also managed to buy an old Chord Chrysalis - from eBay - and now I understand why Richard Dane likes it so much.

So I've learnt to try to get the very best out of what I got.

 

Very good Advice!

Quick Question, please excuse me for going off topic!

I don't no much about Streaming, but from what I gather from the Forum, I'm Streaming Locally!

Airport Express = AE

MM > Time Capsule > Airport Express.

AE > 282 > HCDR > Passive Tri-Amped Bricks.

AE > Emotiva Dac 1 > Primare Pre 30 > Arcam 

P1 Mono Blocks >  Vienna  Baby Grands.

(Audio Quest King Cobra XLR ICs )

(Dac > Pre 30 > Mono Blocks.)

When Streaming from my local itune Library, the Vienna Acoustic Baby Grands/ Family Room

is the place to be!

I would imagine it's due to the fact I'm using an $100 dac within the Airport Express in the Living-Room, as opposed to my Emotiva Dac in the Family-Room, with King Cobra XLR ICs throughout the System.

Question:

Would an mojo be comparable to my Emotiva Dac?

Allante93!

PS. Now Cdx2 > 282 > Briks

A different Story, no contest!

Sold my oppo bd 95, three years ago!

Wasn't a bad deck!

Pre-loved Naim ain't Cheap!

I find chord mojo to be amazing. All the Dac I need. 

analogmusic posted:

I find chord mojo to be amazing. All the Dac I need. 

So does that mean it will supplant Dave?

Of course not. Dave blows mojo away.

but mojo is a lot more portable 

Sorry, that's what I understood, but I couldn't resist as you left yourself wide open to it!

yes but look at the cost of Mojo and cost of Dave....

Mojo plays music in a way that is very musical to my ears.

Just because Statement S1 exists now doesn't make the 552 any less musical.. same sort of logic.

So the answer (for me) for this thread - it is just plain silly to desire a statement S1 if one cannot afford, and if all one can afford is a 552 or 252 or 282 or UQ, well, play some music and enjoy it. 

To lose any sleep over this question is a bit childish. 

So where would Vitus Audio lie in the equation here then ?

Everyone I have come across on my S/H travels over the last 2 years that's also getting rid of a 552 has gone to varying bits of Vitus kit, not one has gone to Statement

lyndon

Last Autumn, my Naim dealer in Kingston-on-Thames, hosted an evening comparing the 552/500, DR, and the Statement units. Source was NDS/555 PS, single, and speakers B & W 802, D3. Quite a system/s. For those who know the shop and their rear demo room they opted for setup in the shop front giving if nothing else a much larger volume to work in.

Music used was mostly hard rock. Something I personally find difficult to evaluate hi-fi with. What struck me was how similar both systems sounded. Blame my OAP ears, but that's how it came across to me and I have similar equipment at home. BUT not the Statement!. The 802s from either amp could play at an enormous volume, sounding better by the entrance door to the shop! Not a criticism.

Chatting to Infidelity's ever helpful staff, the feeling is the Statement pre-amp is the star of two, albeit at three times the price of the 552. With the demise of the 555 CD player it would be likely the NDS will become  junior to a server  in the same price bracket as the 555 head unit, now available used at a comparatively good price. The Linn CD12 is around for about half its original cost.

lotus.

But who here thinks they could hear the difference between a Statement and 3 active Statements into e.g. Sonus Faber Ada?

If the answer is none then there's no where to go for Naim after the Statement!

Consciousmess posted:

But who here thinks they could hear the difference between a Statement and 3 active Statements into e.g. Sonus Faber Ada?

If the answer is none then there's no where to go for Naim after the Statement!

The difference active vs passive is a function of the loudspeaker, and will always be there, so yes, triamping with 3 Statements would be likely to sound better than passive with 1

But that is not a Naim upgrade path. Perhaps there will be no upgrade path for amps beyond Statement, or not until some future technological breakthrough, but they can still develop amps, to bring benefits to lower level models perhaps, though they may desire to maintain a differential otherwise they would lose sales of higher cost models - and the balance there is financial, more sales at lower cost vs fewer at higher.

I have no doubt the statement preamp is better... in all respects .... it has vastly superior stepped attenuator and the next veneration of amp design and earthing technology..... The gentleman I bought my 552dr from who audition carefully stated it was a quantum keep forward ... enough to trade in his 3 year old 552 for a 50k statement pre. The analogy he drew was the 272 I had was like opening the door revealing a crack.... the 552 was door wide open and the statement was door wide open and patio doors wide open to garden!!!!

Source first still applies

Darke Bear posted:

Naim, for me, tend to always retain what I describe as high 'linearity' in the sound at expense of other aspects of HiFi performance. What I mean be linearity is that the louder musical strands do no obliterate the quieter strands. Some manufacturers equipment optimise high-level quality at expense of the quieter strands of music - some to my ears in a shocking way given the praise they seem to get. With Naim kit I hear the quiet with the loud portrayed very well. The 'start-stop' quality or good transient handling and low overhang also give the 'darkness' to the sound I like as well as the good tunefulness.

As the Naim hierarchy is ascended you get more of this ability, together with more of the 'HiFi' so-called round earth aspects, but never sacrificing the inherent linearity to attain the latter. Some levels of the hierarchy attain the system end result differently, but you could hear what Naim were aiming for with the old Reference kit. 

I like this description of 'linearity', and have found while gradually adding SL to make a full loom that quite quiet instruments like a tambourine in a orchestra stand out and are not overwhelmed by the rest of the orchestra. Heard this live in the Albert Hall at the Tchaikovsky Gala recently, which included the 1812 Overture.

Phil

Richieroo posted:

I have no doubt the statement preamp is better... in all respects .... it has vastly superior stepped attenuator and the next veneration of amp design and earthing technology..... The gentleman I bought my 552dr from who audition carefully stated it was a quantum keep forward ... enough to trade in his 3 year old 552 for a 50k statement pre. The analogy he drew was the 272 I had was like opening the door revealing a crack.... the 552 was door wide open and the statement was door wide open and patio doors wide open to garden!!!!

I like that analogy. Interesting, isn't it, how it seems it is always possible to improve the sound, no matter what gear one has - though the cost per step tends to increase exponentially - unless other components are at a lower level.

Still many steps to go, of course, the patio door to become a bifold opening wall, then to step through the room ever closer to that open wall, then out onto the patio, then across it towards the expanse of garden itself, then, maybe, down the steps to enter it fully...

Following your analogy, Innocent Bystander, I think the final step is neo-cortical stimulation of the auditory cortex by transcranial electromagnetism.

(Perhaps the step beyond that includes five Polynesian virgins of whatever gender one chooses - giving that affirmative nod to equality and diversity.)

Consciousmess posted:

I need to challenge people here as if one looks through older posts, the 52 was once the bees knees.  Of course its updated model is better, but then the praise and words said for the 552 make one think THAT was the pinnacle.

No post says the 552 is lacking. None. So why desire the Statement?

(And how is the 52 now viewed?!)

Human fickleness is perplexing. Maybe that's the wrong word, but when the 'Statement 2' comes out, how will the Statement be commented on... e.g. "I was listening to superb hifi but now the band is properly in the room".

Curious, don't you think?

I think the price difference is a gentle clue, if the Statement is not better or different from the 552 then Naim's reputation would go down the loo...?  Obviously if there were to be a Statement 2 then the reviewers description would go something like  " I was entrying a night club and heard Jazz with the original Statement, with the Statement 2 my eyes stung from the smoke in the club, I was tipsy from drinking  double whisky and cokes and the lovely bass  physically resonated through my body, oh my god I think I am going to be sick, blimey I feel like I am there...!"

This post attract me.

I have full 500 series (not DR version, only the CD555 upgrade to DR version on PSU), pairing with ProAc Corbon Pro 8 Speaker which recently obsolete from ProAc. I have this setup sing for 4 years without changing any piece of the component on it. Reason why because I am total satisfied on its performance.

Then the Statement launch and I listened them pairing with Magico Q7 & dCS Vivaldi on Hong Kong HiFi show few years ago. To me the performance was good, but not as good as what I heard the different from 252 to 552 and etc.

To me, if your room approx 20ft length x 15ft more or less, then 500 series will just suite best, if you prefer to put Statement in this similar size of room with suitable speaker  then I can quite sure that the performance shall be very less in different, perhaps only slightly better in overall control the bass line (which the 500 already excellent), and possible slightly better on the sound-stage and detail, I mean slightly. Using the Statement on the small to mid size of room is a waste for Naim user.

Statement will only be good and suitable for large room size (35ft width x 60ft length), large speaker (Focal Utopia/Wilson/Kharma and etc) and require no compromise on the power demand, which's should no compromise to control the speaker from rock (fast) to vocal (slow) musics.

Summing up subjectively, I felt like if you have small-mid size room then don't waste your money to go for Statement, 500 series DR will do the best at its price point or even double/triple price setup. I certainly quite sure about this, if you match well, 500 series are the best combo so far I ever across at this price point or double than that.

Regards,

Joseph.

There is ALWAYS more.

lotus

I do really agree with that ...... the Statement Preamp - will very positively improve on the 552dr,  you may have a point regarding a 500dr in a uk proportion room . However, shows are notorious - the mains supply is usually horrendous ...... and the statement amps need the very best of mains supply - a dedicated circuit being an absolute must.

douglas posted:

There is ALWAYS more.

 

lotus

Richieroo posted:

I do really agree with that ...... the Statement Preamp - will very positively improve on the 552dr,  you may have a point regarding a 500dr in a uk proportion room . However, shows are notorious - the mains supply is usually horrendous ...... and the statement amps need the very best of mains supply - a dedicated circuit being an absolute must.

Clearly the primary way in which Statement - and all other Naim gear - would benefit from improvement would be making them immune to mains power supply issues, so they work perfectly provided the supply voltage and stability are within the specifications normal to mains supply companies' standard specifications. I.e, so that anyone could buy and have working to perfection regardless of the home they live in, or hotel room in which demonstrated, and with freedom to move between rooms or locations without having to rewire the place.

Maybe this would be something worthwhile Naim working on.

BNN posted:

This post attract me.

I have full 500 series (not DR version, only the CD555 upgrade to DR version on PSU), pairing with ProAc Corbon Pro 8 Speaker which recently obsolete from ProAc. I have this setup sing for 4 years without changing any piece of the component on it. Reason why because I am total satisfied on its performance.

Then the Statement launch and I listened them pairing with Magico Q7 & dCS Vivaldi on Hong Kong HiFi show few years ago. To me the performance was good, but not as good as what I heard the different from 252 to 552 and etc.

To me, if your room approx 20ft length x 15ft more or less, then 500 series will just suite best, if you prefer to put Statement in this similar size of room with suitable speaker  then I can quite sure that the performance shall be very less in different, perhaps only slightly better in overall control the bass line (which the 500 already excellent), and possible slightly better on the sound-stage and detail, I mean slightly. Using the Statement on the small to mid size of room is a waste for Naim user.

Statement will only be good and suitable for large room size (35ft width x 60ft length), large speaker (Focal Utopia/Wilson/Kharma and etc) and require no compromise on the power demand, which's should no compromise to control the speaker from rock (fast) to vocal (slow) musics.

Summing up subjectively, I felt like if you have small-mid size room then don't waste your money to go for Statement, 500 series DR will do the best at its price point or even double/triple price setup. I certainly quite sure about this, if you match well, 500 series are the best combo so far I ever across at this price point or double than that.

 

Regards,

Joseph.

 

I agree with you totally, Naim's top of the line is the 500 series. 

The 282 is where it starts to get interesting, and believe me, it ain't bad either! 

But here in the US, an Statement System:

3 x 90K = 270K

Cabling & IC & Power mains = 12K

NDS & Dual PS,s = 30K

Speakers = 30K

Extras = 10K

Total~ $362K

Car ~ $150K

Home ~ 1 Million Plus!

Room size????

If I was only so lucky!

Allante93!

PS. My Home $160K

I know no experience!

Cdx2>282> HCDR>Tri-Amped > Briks

Statement Seminar, Hosted by the Esteem Manu, over  @ Audio Plus.

It ain't bad Either!

I use 500dr set up in a small office and it fabulous..... it drives my pmc20.21's brilliantly...the clarity and punch is incredible.... I can't imagine using a full statement system in my office!!!

There has been some discussion in this thread about matching pre  and power amps and it has been said that Naim preamplifiers are designed to work with Naim power amplifiers. I recall the NAP500 was originally demonstrated with the NAC52, but I am interested in changing my preamplifier so was wondering if anyone on here has any experience of a NAC552 with a pair of Olive NAP135s?