C'mon guys (and gals), what does the atom sound like?

Sadly mine didn't work.  Picked it up on the 27th (as an aside I also got the Core rather than Atom instructions), plugged it in, and it started an update.  Dealer suggested I just leave it to complete - 48 hours later it was still updating.  Took it in to the dealer on Monday, they couldn't work out what was going on, and were sent a patch from the Naim techies.  That didn't work, so it's gone back.

I'm back to waiting patiently, as I have done since November, but rather jealously as I hear the stories of how good it is.

I'm hoping to get a new replacement - rather that than a repaired original - kind of lost my confidence in that one....

My experience suggests that this is not the first time Naim have launched a new product without it being properly tested. When the Uniti 2 was released I went through 3 units which all suffered the same fault (something to do with the CD player I seem to recall) and my dealer confirmed was a manufacturing problem. I gave up and got a SuperUniti instead. I'm thinking of getting a Star but I shall wait until I'm sure all the problems have been ironed out. I would have thought Naim would have got their pre-release testing to be more robust.

To be fair to Naim, I believe that the issue with the Uniti2 came from the new CD drive that they were forced to change to which, when batches of production pieces supplied, turned out slightly different to what had been designed for. Naim had to discover the hard way and re-do the firmware to accommodate the change.

It sounds like Phuggie's unit may have bricked during an update - it can happen to anyone, especially if there's any unforeseen interruption.

Re the Uniti2 CD drive issue Richard Dane refers to above. A couple of years ago I was on a Naim factory tour and Jason mentioned it when telling us about the thoroughness of Naim QA processes. I was very impressed with the explanation of how the Uniti CD drive issue was, with some difficulty and persistence, identified and resolved by Naim (and, yes, it was something beyond Naim‘s control).

I’ll try to do justice (from memory) to the explanation I heard. I don’t think I’m saying anything here that Naim would rather wasn’t repeated, but if Richard thinks otherwise, then no doubt he will edit or delete as necessary.

In summary, Naim, an experienced and high quality manufacturer of CD players was finding unexpected returns of the Uniti product due to CD drive failure. In testing they were unable to find any reason for this in their production. After to-ing and fro-ing with the CD drive supplier, the latter, after doing their own checking/testing, maintained that nothing could be attributed to their product or processes. To move this forward, Naim then referred an example of a Uniti and the CD drive to an independent lab for testing and analysis. This found (if I recall correctly) that the composition of certain cable insulation in the CD drive had been changed, and that when in use, this resulted in some substance being emitted causing a failure somewhere in the electronics of the Uniti CD replay. These lab results were referred back to the CD drive supplier and accepted by them. The cable insulation was changed by the supplier and the CD issues with the Uniti ceased.

This explanation came across to me as entirely plausible, and told with absolute sincerity and conviction.

For me it emphasised how mind bogglingly complex the manufacture of high quality electronics and components can be, and, how easy it can be for a manufacturer’s hard earned reputation for quality to be shaken by something so apparently innocuous and beyond their control.

I had previously read on this forum about the Uniti issues, and as a Naim customer (albeit not for Uniti) was reassured to know how it had come about. I was also reassured and impressed by the rigour of Naim’s approach to the problem, and, of the quality of their staff at being able to see it through to a satisfactory conclusion. I got the feeling that both the CD drive supplier and Naim had learned from this.

I think your response is fine up to a point. I appreciate these things can be complicated and that Naim was not at fault for causing the fault. Furthermore there will inevitably be teething problems with new models - but these should be identified and resolved before they go on sale.  This was a problem that was immediately obvious on all 3 of the units I had so surely it should have been picked up when they were testing the new Uniti 2 before releasing it to the public? The fact that people are reporting issues with the Atom and new releases of the app suggests to me that they still need to test their new models more robustly before they put them on sale.

Unfortunately we're not yet in a world where we can completely rely on software being robust - coding is complex and certainly even more so if some is from different suppliers, which I understand to be the case with the Atom.  Testing can never replicate real world usage, and from the happy stories I'm hearing from other users, it seems my Atom had some form of glitch (or bricked, as per Richard Dane) and may well be unique or at least unusual in that.

I'm happy to give Naim the benefit of doubt - at least as long as I get a replacement soon!

A time dependant fault caused by a change to a bough in component (e.g. one caused by a change to a chemically incompatible formulation) isn't going to be shown up in pre-release testing unless you're going to keep the first production batch for several months (or a year? two? three? where do you stop?) before releasing them.  That's just not practical.

If the fault was "immediately obvious" then the three Unitis you had had probably been in the distribution chain before delivery.  In other words they worked fine when tested in the factory but the fault developed during storage or transport before you received the item.  This is a rare type of event but not something that can be predicted or completely avoided.

In the case of the Atom, the systems have now become so complex that faults will inevitable slip past the testing.  I assume that you accept patches for your computers and mobile devices?  Well why are they necessary?  Answer: To fix faults that weren't found in testing.  Same problem.  Apple, Google, Microsoft et al. have enormously more resources than Naim and even they can't get it right immediately all the time.

Well said Huge. All that matters is that a Naim is onto it and I'm sure they will deliver. Comments re sound quality seem very encouraging so worth cutting them a little slack I think. 

Not totally convinced so I'll still wait a few months before I get my Star.

Huge posted:

 

In the case of the Atom, the systems have now become so complex that faults will inevitable slip past the testing. 

Huge, this made me chuckle - the saying goes something like: everyone has a job, it's hardware's job to create problems and software's job to fix them

Actually a software engineer I worked with here in Silicon Valley brought that to my attention. This reminds me of another story the intrepid engineer told me - while working at one of the router companies here he took it on himself to make absolutely sure his fix was sufficiently  tested and being late at night with the office empty and no other way to do it decided to use the company network to direct enormous amounts of traffic at the product he was working on, thereby triggering all sorts of alarms and a visit from the head of IT.

Seen the uniti update about the Atom with hdmi. Thats the model I am after 

dear naim people, please take your time to get it right. We are very aware of how difficult it is. I don't want to join the moaning crowd expecting perfection. They have a point probably but all I am asking is that you take your time to get it right...better your side than mine with my little patience.we know that you will continue fixing issues and thats all I need to know.

Big thanks to all naim people for your effort. My job is to deliver difficult programmes and projects so I know how challenging it is for all parts of the chain. That's no excuse but too easy to talk when we don't know the whole story. Make sure you share this message internally from a future naim owner (newbie)

what hifi gave you a glowing review but I will trust my ears and more serious places :-) 

Perhaps Naim should get back to making the Aro....

naim old business is changing ,the new direction is total focus on new customers. it the muso designed arena

To answer the OP, IMHO - not as enjoyable as an old Qute2 + Nap 100. Not able to point to the precise reason, but just not as engaging. On that basis, i am dissapointed.

Don't you think it's probably a bit too early to make any definitive judgements? - Naim kit is well known to take a few weeks at least to run-in, with plenty of ups and downs until that magic moment.  Once units have been properly run-in, then by all means...

Life was so much simpler when we had the Classic components

Just to add i mentioned in anotger thread i got the death cycle as I call it now using the ipad, had to deep sleep, then unplug the Atom, factory reset to get going.

I actually bought an iPad as similar manufacturer (Nespresso) have the same Apple fanboy employee team, no doubt so focus on that o/s.

So now I just don't use Android and do not power on or off the Atom from the ipad as that's what caused the cycle of death.

Really if the Atom wasn' so damn bloody good, I would have been returning for a full refund.

It's still sad to see big reputable companies not just naim scrimp or overlook the o/s and app development team, almost an after thought, damn most team have higher paid graphic designer on making the app look cool but bollocks to does it even work.

What is not acceptable as mentioned by other earlier is basic 101 end of line and good product DV.

Lastly there have been comments on other threads about Naim advising it's home network, WiFi, LAN protocols - well bollocks what were you expecting only IT gurus to set devices up or them to work in perfect lab environments - I think the vast majority of novice customers will ask for a refund.

I recall trying to setup my old Muso to Wi-Fi (LAN cable I had was too short) after a few hours I gave up, next day got a longer LAN cable sorted. But plenty of people do use these devices purely on WIFI.

Obsydian posted:

 

Really if the Atom wasn' so damn bloody good...........

Could you elucidate on what the bollocking sound is like?

.sjb

Sloop John B posted:

Obsydian posted:

 

Really if the Atom wasn' so damn bloody good...........

Could you elucidate on what the bollocking sound is like?

 

.sjb

John - think I'm 3 weeks in just gets better and better (bar the cycle of death reboot issue), dare I say for me the best description is from what HIFI, "but the Atom is like opening a door and now listening to the music from inside the room".

Oh got a toslink for A/V use and a Cisco 2560 switch arriving today to replace my Netgear - so things are only going to get better 

Also looking to invest in proper Focal stands which my speakers screw into, to lose that occasional bass bloom, affecting the otherwise impeccable PRaT 

I guess you mean either a 3560 to 2960 device.... ?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I guess you mean either a 3560 to 2960 device.... ?

Yes the latter (fat thumb sydrome)

Enjoy - should be good

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Enjoy - should be good

Simon, good is an understatement 

In general mid range so much more defined, more air around the soundstage (stretches further out) and so much more detail in terms of separation, vocals bang centre, backing vocalists now very clear and separated all with a vice like PRaT. Bass again another layer peeled away to reveal more detail to the baseline and different strands. Bass is also going allot deeper, tried a very known to me complex bassline track, first time hearing parts of the bassline where it would get muddled or tripped up as the bassline change direction, now it lays it out with ease, sublime.

Most impressed with the midrange detail uncovered, akin to much greater system changes. Vocals are so sweet now, bar far the midrange is where it all happening at the moment (assume a bit of settle in and things will improve). Instruments that were single strand and dull are now dynamic multi stranded texture. Subtle very subtle instruments in the background are now audible in some cases maybe a little more than I would like, but thats why I went Naim the ability to do PRaT, unravelling complex tunes with ease.

Versus my prior Netgear 105, night and day significant improvement. The Netgear versus my Sky router was a noticeable improvement with the Muso, but versus the Cisco, the Netgear sounds muffled, veiled and confused.

I purposely avoided reading other posters findings in detail, so as not to pre judge.

Oh the IEC is poor but for now will stay, one change at a time so sure where the change originates. Oh and my setup is for living room aesthetics, so router on it's side, cables all stuff behind tv cabinet.

Had fun talking to my brother IT guru as was unsure where to plug the wires, got the whats wrong with the Netgear, it's a switch man, you not going all hifi crazy again (recalls my obsession 20 yrs ago).

I'm a firm believer of squeezing the most out of a setup before box upgrades and this switch delivers.

Lastly midrange I say it again as so major, dare I say this is closing the WAV 24 bit via USB. Some say chill and buy more music, but get step changes like this and you end up listening to the same collection in a new light.

Acknowledge sound is a little clinical and forward, that may settle but for me the Naim sound was always clinical which I liked.