Potential NAP 180 Heresy

The 180 probably does not have that much more 'grunt' than the 120, but it may run a bit cooler because it has a larger chassis/heat sink. If your 120 is running excessively hot, it may due to several reasons....
1. Equipment needs servicing
2. Speakers are way too inefficient
3. You are using verboten speaker cables with fancy braiding etc that causes your amp to oscillate. 
4. You are using a turntable with excessive LF noise that is being passed on for amplification. 
5. Your room really is too big. 

Don't be surprised if you prefer the sound of the 120 (assuming it is still working to spec) over the 180. And there is something very special about the NAC12 that was not found in the 102-although the latter does have a wider audio bandwidth. 

I would take a fully fettled 12/120 over a 102/180 anyday. BTW, the 102 has a much greater polarization of opinion than does the 12. I personally quite liked the 102, but only after it was fitted with the NAPSC and a Supercap. Even reverting to a Hicap made it sound a little ho-hum. 

I'm running a NAC12S straight of a Bolt Down NAP 160, it has to be one of the best sound you can get from Naim, bit scrappy looking but so good to listen to. 

I'm going to have to go with number 5. It's a 25'x18' room with a cathedral ceiling, so it's probably cheaper buying more kit than it would be moving house.....

Regardless, I think this is going to be an interesting experiment.

Cheers,

Hamish

The NAC12 will be just fine - an excellent pre-amp and will partner the NAP180 well.  I have a very early but updated NAC12 along with a matching SNAPS - I was using it in one of my systems until fairly recently, but it's currently stored away. Do you have a SNAPS for the NAC12 or will you be powering from the NAP180?

Initially planned on powering it from the NAP180, see how things go and then explore other power options once I'm happy. The dangerous part of this is that, if the NAP180 does do well in the room, I may get NAP250 fever......

Cheers,

Hamish

Hamish posted:

It's a 25'x18' room with a cathedral ceiling, so it's probably cheaper buying more kit than it would be moving house.....

An alternative may have been something > 90dB efficient on the end of the NAP120.

But let's hope the NAP180 does the business.

C.

In one of my other systems I have a pair of JBL L100s with the Murphy modified x-overs. DEFINITELY won't be trying those..... although they are excellent on 70's & 80's rock... I think they are probably around 22Ω after the mods....

Cheers,

Hamish

Hamish, You've lost me on the technical stuff. In what way are your JBLs inefficient and why would they be wrong for your NAP120?

Chris

The "Murphy Mods" redesign the x-over network and adds more resistors, capacitors and inductors, which in turn increase the resistance, lowering efficiency......

However, I highly recommend this mods as it removes the 4kHz spike and makes them MUCH more listenable.....not realistic, but listenable. I'm driving them with a Soundcraftsmen 300wpc amp and there's times it feels like it's running out of steam.

Cheers,

Hamish

The JBL L100s are pretty efficient and though I'm not familiar with the x-over mods, a 22Ω (are you sure about that figure?) load shouldn't be too hard so long as it's not too reactive.  I can't believe that's the average load figure though, 4 ohms maybe, but 22 seems an odd average.

A NAP110 is more than enough to blast my own JBL 4311s and L110s to anti-social levels.

Just taking a SWAG at the impedance...., but there is a noticeable reduction in output. I built one x-over, compared "pre" vs "post" speakers to see if the mod was truly beneficial and I was able to hear a clear difference in the output.

Cheers,

Hamish

So what will you actually use on the end of the NAP180?

I have a pair of modded Paradigm Mini Monitors. I had originally set this up as a system for primarily acoustic music and jazz and there is honestly no way my wife would agree to a pair of Quads or Maggie's in "her room".....

Cheers,

Hamish 

Quads and Maggies can be visually stunning and architecturally enhancing,. If these can't work then you have *no* hope of bring in a set of DBLs-which would not only fill the room with sound, but the entire house too. No 'mini-monitor' will give you even close to realistic levels in a room that size, unless you are into 'near-field listening', regardless of how powerful an amplfier you use with them. You don't need a bigger amp-you need bigger/more efficient speakers. Its a shame that corner loaded horns fell out of fashion-you probably could drive them with the headphone output of a smartphone!

If you can find a way to discretely place a subwoofer, you will get back much of what you are missing with the mini-monitors. Some are even fashioned to resemble coffee tables, and can co-exist in domestic harmony. 

Ron Toolsie posted:

If you can find a way to discretely place a subwoofer, you will get back much of what you are missing with the mini-monitors. Some are even fashioned to resemble coffee tables, and can co-exist in domestic harmony. 

Coffee table? Sacrilege!!

God, I must sound so hen-pecked, but I have found in twenty-nine years of marriage that one must pick one's battle's when toys are involved....

As far as the mini-monitors go, I had originally set this up as basically an experiment for primarily acoustic music sourced through an iPod and realized that I more than likely didn't need something that went to 20Hz....think of all the marvelous "unplugged" albums and acoustic music that is out there.  After a while I had then renewed the original affair I had with the NAC 12 and NAP 120, and found a really nice AR XB turntable, the Sondek's grandfather. Well, that's when all my problems began...

I believe it was Sam Tellig that wrote an article in Stereophile about 47 years ago about three of his female friends that attended chamber music recitals on an almost weekly basis, so were well versed on what music should sound like. One was an M.D. and two were Ph.D's, so disposable income wasn't a problem, yet all three listened to music at home through boomboxes or some similar dubious source. That's my wife.... I will continue to educate her, as is my duty as a dutiful husband, and I am sure that, with the support of this forum, I can one day bring her to the realization that a speaker that looks like the monoliths from 2001 are necessary.... But she still complains I don't have a tuner...

And yes, "English Whisky" is about as correct as "Scottish Bitter"....

Have  good weekend everyone,

Hamish

I think someones making it  in Norwich, no idea if it's drinkable but with the price of drinkable Scotch soaring there's a gap if someone can fill it. 

Hamish are you using NACA5 with your 120?

Hamish posted:

And yes, "English Whisky" is about as correct as "Scottish Bitter"....

Have  good weekend everyone,

Hamish

I quite like it actually. I once had a Japanese turntable I was very fond of, too 

Not sure if I can mention the speaker cable, but it rhymes with "Bitch Hat"...

Cheers,

Hamish

ChrisSU posted:

Hamish posted:

And yes, "English Whisky" is about as correct as "Scottish Bitter"....

I quite like it actually. I once had a Japanese turntable I was very fond of, too 

I bought some Japanese whisky which was very drinkable!

Hamish posted:

But she still complains I don't have a tuner...

And well she might.

C.

Witch Hat is made for Naim amps though I don't know how well they hit the inductance/ capacitance requirements.

When was the 120 last serviced?

They told me it was basically a NACA clone. Last service was four years ago.

Cheers,

Hamish

No such thing as a NACA5 clone - its Naim's own exclusive cable not available to anyone else. 

NACA4 though, possibly...

By way of a follow-up, my "new" NAP 180 arrived and I'm well-chuffed. It has the extra power I was looking for and per other folks reviews, it seems to have more clarity in the midrange and bass extension. I'll definitely take to heart the comments around mini-monitors and once I have more time with the amp, then some speaker shopping may be in order.

I'm also thinking that my NAP 120 may be due for a recap and a going through. It has a lot of sentimental value as I bought it from Russ Andrews in Edinburgh in 1976 and it's serial number is 707 so it's seen a lot!

Cheers,

Hamish