pre upgrade - from Audio Research to Naim

richard999 posted:

Not been on the forum for a few years so please be nice ;-) -

My current setup minus cable specs is - Audio Research LS7 (with gold lion tubes 10hrs), Rega rp3,groove tracer upgrade inner platter plus ttpsu, rb303 plus gelding 1042. into a stage line 'N' and then an old but recently serviced red led chrome bumper hicap (1984 holden fisher). Quad 606mk2 to ATC scm 7 mk2. 

To me, although a bit of a miss-mash of gear it all works to provide me with a great sound and insight that i can live with day to day. BUT my Pre amp is getting noisy and is in need of a re-build to which will cost a lot of cash and I'm thinking maybe its time i should get another pre for when it eventually it dies. So I'm looking at Naim gear again, another pre with another hicap but used. Any input from you guys would be most helpful but don't tell me off about the quad 606, its the best I could get to drive the ATC properly ;-)

non naim amp with naim preamp is not a thing that a lot of naim members do. For myself i have non naim tube preamp ( ear yoshino) with naim amp. It works very good. As for quad/naim, i don't know.    But why you want absolutely naim preamp ?

Apparently ATC can be driven by most Naim pre-power combos. Hey - they even drive Quad speakers quite easily.

I think I understand why you'd want a Naim pre. After all it's the preamp that defines the sound. One thing that you should be mindful of - you will need a lot of RCA > DIN and RIN>RCA cables. Naim really does sound better via DIN sockets.

I had built my whole life around tubes, included dedicated earth grounds and Merlin tube friendly speakers but got tired of boutique audio.  I got a second hand deal on a 300, ran it with my tube preamp initially and have never looked back.   I do not miss tubes at all and my wife who hears everything believes Naim sounds better than tubes.  Buy the nicest Naim rig you can afford.   You could start with a Super Nait and go way up from there until you are satisfied if you had a dealer you trust.    I recommend you find a dealer rather than launch yourself into Audiogon unsupervised.

I'm curious as to how you ended up with a Stageline/HC combo in the mix. I get you say your pre is noisy and that's your focus of upgrade, but what are you seeking overall? In a vinyl system the phono stage can be equally as important as the pre and there are better options for air, staging, and dimension than a Stageline/HC at far less money.

joerand posted:

I'm curious as to how you ended up with a Stageline/HC combo in the mix. I get you say your pre is noisy and that's your focus of upgrade, but what are you seeking overall? In a vinyl system the phono stage can be equally as important as the pre and there are better options for air, staging, and dimension than a Stageline/HC at far less money.

ok, many years ago i ran a nac72 hicap with the same ATC and quad 606, the tubes came up at a very good price, i liked them so much i lost the 72. I was paying london rents at the time so couldn't have it sat around with nothing to do etc. Couple of years ago i heard the stage line against a musical fidelity, a project and also trichord dino with the never connected psu (all in my system) and decided to put the stage line on the hicap. I like its sound with the gelding 1042.

On the way into Naim amps I had a 282 driving a Rega Maia via a couple of DIN to 1 RCA Naim supplied leads via either a flat cap or a hicap. The Rega didn't have the current reserves of the its replacement 250 but sounded pretty good unless pushed. I even ran a superline off the 282 when it was powered from half a flatcap 2x with some success.

You don't mention budget but it might be worth considering a better pre off your exiisting hicap and powering the stageline from the pre. With a superline I prefered the AUX2 powered input to any dedicated power supply short of a supercap via a Burndy.

If you're going to try mixing Naim with other amp makes then much better to go with a Naim pre-amp and other make power amp than the other way around, which can give Naim power amps problems.

Richard Dane posted:

If you're going to try mixing Naim with other amp makes then much better to go with a Naim pre-amp and other make power amp than the other way around, which can give Naim power amps problems.

in general it is not indicated, but there are exceptions : ear preamp with naim amp, heaven match.  I had before nac252 with nap250 then ear 912 with nap 250 then nap 300:  i prefer the ear 912 over nac 252. .  Chord made be special cables between ear preamp and nap 300.

I know one person that have aesthetix preamp with naim, he loves the sound.

Hifi plus magazine had reviewed a mcintosh tube pre with nap 300,  they liked very much the sound.

Ear preamps are very dynamic, with good prat and also very nice presentation. The phono inside is also dead quiet and very good.

Yes, there are bound to be exception to the rule.  

richard999 posted:

Not been on the forum for a few years so please be nice ;-) -

My current setup minus cable specs is - Audio Research LS7 (with gold lion tubes 10hrs), Rega rp3,groove tracer upgrade inner platter plus ttpsu, rb303 plus gelding 1042. into a stage line 'N' and then an old but recently serviced red led chrome bumper hicap (1984 holden fisher). Quad 606mk2 to ATC scm 7 mk2. 

To me, although a bit of a miss-mash of gear it all works to provide me with a great sound and insight that i can live with day to day. BUT my Pre amp is getting noisy and is in need of a re-build to which will cost a lot of cash and I'm thinking maybe its time i should get another pre for when it eventually it dies. So I'm looking at Naim gear again, another pre with another hicap but used. Any input from you guys would be most helpful but don't tell me off about the quad 606, its the best I could get to drive the ATC properly ;-)

Easiest question in the forum's history.  Put a 72/hicap/140 in between the P3 and the ATC 7s. You will have a system with massive synergy at every link in the chain and a ton of prat.  I speak from personal experience, having run that exact system. 

ngarritson posted:

richard999 posted:

Not been on the forum for a few years so please be nice ;-) -

My current setup minus cable specs is - Audio Research LS7 (with gold lion tubes 10hrs), Rega rp3,groove tracer upgrade inner platter plus ttpsu, rb303 plus gelding 1042. into a stage line 'N' and then an old but recently serviced red led chrome bumper hicap (1984 holden fisher). Quad 606mk2 to ATC scm 7 mk2. 

To me, although a bit of a miss-mash of gear it all works to provide me with a great sound and insight that i can live with day to day. BUT my Pre amp is getting noisy and is in need of a re-build to which will cost a lot of cash and I'm thinking maybe its time i should get another pre for when it eventually it dies. So I'm looking at Naim gear again, another pre with another hicap but used. Any input from you guys would be most helpful but don't tell me off about the quad 606, its the best I could get to drive the ATC properly ;-)

Easiest question in the forum's history.  Put a 72/hicap/140 in between the P3 and the ATC 7s. You will have a system with massive synergy at every link in the chain and a ton of prat.  I speak from personal experience, having run that exact system. 

nap 140 will not drive easily the atc  speakers. Quad 606 have 140 watt, i know watt is not all, but also the op don't want to change his amp.

French Rooster posted:

ngarritson posted:

richard999 posted:

Not been on the forum for a few years so please be nice ;-) -

My current setup minus cable specs is - Audio Research LS7 (with gold lion tubes 10hrs), Rega rp3,groove tracer upgrade inner platter plus ttpsu, rb303 plus gelding 1042. into a stage line 'N' and then an old but recently serviced red led chrome bumper hicap (1984 holden fisher). Quad 606mk2 to ATC scm 7 mk2. 

To me, although a bit of a miss-mash of gear it all works to provide me with a great sound and insight that i can live with day to day. BUT my Pre amp is getting noisy and is in need of a re-build to which will cost a lot of cash and I'm thinking maybe its time i should get another pre for when it eventually it dies. So I'm looking at Naim gear again, another pre with another hicap but used. Any input from you guys would be most helpful but don't tell me off about the quad 606, its the best I could get to drive the ATC properly ;-)

Easiest question in the forum's history.  Put a 72/hicap/140 in between the P3 and the ATC 7s. You will have a system with massive synergy at every link in the chain and a ton of prat.  I speak from personal experience, having run that exact system. 

nap 140 will not drive easily the atc  speakers. Quad 606 have 140 watt, i know watt is not all, but also the op don't want to change his amp.

The 140 drives the ATCs with margin to spare, especially with a hicap to relieve it from having to also power the preamp.   I am running that combo right now to great satisfaction.  I understand the OP may not want to change his amp but he should consider it.  

ngarritson posted:

French Rooster posted:

ngarritson posted:

 

The 140 drives the ATCs with margin to spare, especially with a hicap to relieve it from having to also power the preamp.   I am running that combo right now to great satisfaction.  I understand the OP may not want to change his amp but he should consider it.  

ok, if you have atc and nap 140, you are right so.  

Another classic combo would be NAC 72 / HiCap / NAP 250 - this should drive just about any speakers out there (in my case it drives Quad ESL-63s) 

In defence of Quad power amps, I used my 272 with a Quad 909 (which is basically the same as the 606 but in a more modern case) for a few months and it worked very well. I swapped the 909 for a NAP 250DR and that was better, but not that much better. I think putting a Naim preamp in front of a Quad 606-2 will be fine.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

In defence of Quad power amps, I used my 272 with a Quad 909 (which is basically the same as the 606 but in a more modern case) for a few months and it worked very well. I swapped the 909 for a NAP 250DR and that was better, but not that much better. I think putting a Naim preamp in front of a Quad 606-2 will be fine.

best

David

it is finally the response the op was waiting. He will be pleased to read that. 

French Rooster posted:

David Hendon posted:

In defence of Quad power amps, I used my 272 with a Quad 909 (which is basically the same as the 606 but in a more modern case) for a few months and it worked very well. I swapped the 909 for a NAP 250DR and that was better, but not that much better. I think putting a Naim preamp in front of a Quad 606-2 will be fine.

best

David

it is finally the response the op was waiting. He will be pleased to read that. 

heheheh ;-)