sound is not what expected

At this stage of the thread we should take bets to see if the op is genuine or wind up.  Whatever it seems to me the op has stirred up a real HiFi hornets nest..!

Romi posted:

At this stage of the thread we should take bets to see if the op is genuine or wind up.  Whatever it seems to me the op has stirred up a real HiFi hornets nest..!

He is. I've exchanged emails with Ofer on some other topics.

I think he simply does not frequent the forum as often as we do.  Perhaps he did not set automatic notifications on thread replies. Or maybe he's just ill and cannot access his computer...

Anyhow - he has all the advice now. I've also emailed him separately few days ago with some more hints and tips.

Let's just leave it at that.

Adam

Yeah, I agree drop the nDAC and just set it up simple first, SN2/NDX and seeing what you think then maybe adding it back in or trying different speakers. Start simple to complex. I have found that NAIM has a product line with very few clunkers, that you can get 95% there with any of it. If you can't find the sound appealing with just the NDX and SN2 additional power supplies, fancy cables and more boxes won't change the fundamentals. Not everyone likes the same thing, you may just not like the sound. I personally have never heard a Focal speaker that I like despite them being well regarded - my personal thought is that is where the dullness is coming from; but again it's all opinion.

Romi posted:

At this stage of the thread we should take bets to see if the op is genuine or wind up.  Whatever it seems to me the op has stirred up a real HiFi hornets nest..!

can you translate for me please " the op has stirred up a real Hifi hornets nest.." in simple words.  thanks.   i don't understand a single word in it.

To "stir up a hornets nest" is an English idiom meaning to cause trouble.

If, in real life, you disturb a nest of hornets (large insects closely related to wasps), they'll attack you and you'll get stung very painfully.

Huge posted:

If, in real life, you disturb a nest of hornets (large insects closely related to wasps), they'll attack you and you'll get stung very painfully.

Hornet = 'frelon' en francais

thanks Mike and Huge.  In french" mettre le feu aux poudres ". For me there is just a little disappointment to not have more information from the op and understand what is wrong.

A long time ago we had someone called Guy Fawkes who tried to do that literally (fire and gunpowder), underneath our parliament building.

Maybe we should have a thread on these "sayings"    set fire to the powder,  stir up a hornets nest,   put the cat amongst the pigeons,  fox in the hen house,  fuel to the fire,    ...............   OK maybe not a thread.    

i have learned some expressions, thanks 

I fear the diner won't be eating at our 'restaurant' again   ;-)

Unfortunately, I have found, it is too easy to get a system to sound wrong.

So I do have symphony with the op.

If you're coming from a 24 band equaliser type system to the minimalist style philosophy of a Naim system then the culture shock would be too much to bear, I can well imagine. Most of us don't start life as Naimees so we should cut the op a little slack.

My advice : at least, start with a demo before taking the leap.

I've had several friends who had systems with tone controls.  In every case with any reasonably balanced system (even as lowly as a Denon DM38), when I've set the tone controls to flat (or even better bypassed) and sometimes slightly repositioned their speakers, they've had to agree the system has sounded better.  In the case of the Denon owner, she didn't know I was doing it, she came in and said "Wow, that sounds better, you've done something, what did you do?".

The response has usually been one of surprise and "I'd never have believed that" or "Now I see why you didn't build tone controls into your amp".

If you think you need to boost both bass and treble, then you've definitely got it badly wrong.

Huge posted:

I've had several friends who had systems with tone controls.  In every case with any reasonably balanced system (even as lowly as a Denon DM38), when I've set the tone controls to flat (or even better bypassed) and sometimes slightly repositioned their speakers, they've had to agree the system has sounded better.  In the case of the Denon owner, she didn't know I was doing it, she came in and said "Wow, that sounds better, you've done something, what did you do?".

The response has usually been one of surprise and "I'd never have believed that" or "Now I see why you didn't build tone controls into your amp".

If you think you need to boost both bass and treble, then you've definitely got it badly wrong.

"Badly wrong" in this context could mean different things - including speakers that roll off too much in the bass and treble - however boosting to compensate could rapidly lead to other problems so is a poor solution, and does not seem likely with the OP's speakers. Also treble boosting possibly might help a person suffering from high frequency hearing loss, though with a negative effect for anyone else in the room, and with risk of overloading the tweeter.

Perhaps the most valid 'tone' adjustment would be for listening at very low sound levels and still wanting to hear the extremities that are rolled off by the ear's natural loudness contour (but to do it right would need different amounts of EQ at different sound levels.

Of course, some people could simply like the sound with boosted bass and treble (or diminished mid), and that is fine - but to do so would require the tools to do it, even in a Naim system, when parametric EQ using DSP may have less adverse effect on sound quality than an analog graphic equaliser.

i think we're all waiting now for the OP to return to the thread - if indeed he ever will - to feed back on what luck he may have had re Naim dealer, answer the many questions people have asked of him/her, and try the various suggestions that have been made, all with the intent of helping him resolve the issue to her/his sayisfaction.

Indeed.

You can boost top and bottom to get a "hifi" sound to impress those who don't really listen to music.

Or you can go for a quality properly balanced system so that you can enjoy listening to the music you like.

I'm in the last category. 

Aaarrgh!!  This thread is frustrating.  I too sympathise with the OP.  I've been there.....recently.  That feeling of, well, it sounds good I suppose, but I don't like it.  Like the OP is trying now it seems, I tried to get used to it, tweak this and that, and then this....and that again.  Nothing worked!  I definitely don't like the idea of a graphic equalizer in the signal path, or even the idea of digital trickery outside of Naim's own DSPs, but I believe the effect the OP describes, and now having confirmed the EQ settings were along the lines I expected, damn it, it's all achievable and with the electronics is question.  

Assuming those 936s sound very similar to the 926s I spent some time playing with, they are gorgeous.  I think.  Many don't I expect, and it really seems to me that you don't.  There is a massive difference between those in terms of HF and LF emphasis to comparably priced offerings from PMC and Proac that I've heard, and indeed lived with recently.  I would seriously recommend trying some different speakers with your current set up, and without EQ, and just see if the problem is cured.  I've heard your electronics deliver a sound that is much much more boosted in the highs and lows, and plenty of people like that, and there's no reason why they shouldn't.  

It's strange that I seem to be guiding someone to toward a system I wouldn't like, and am pretty sure I'd prefer the current arrangement by far.  However, there really is no point in having a system, at any price point, that serves only to impress other people, or be in line with recommendations around here.  You should enjoy listening, even if that does mean having questionable EQ settings, but personally I think you'll get better results without and the right system synergy for you.  

i propose that we go all together at his home place, knock at his door, and insist to enter in order to hear the op system.

We will profoundly disagree on the solution direction. I propose that a French bloke will provide the food and wines during the session since I trust the French the most regarding this.

French Rooster posted:

i propose that we go all together at his home place, knock at his door, and insist to enter in order to hear the op system.

It'd a long trip  

Ardbeg10y posted:

We will profoundly disagree on the solution direction. I propose that a French bloke will provide the food and wines during the session since I trust the French the most regarding this.

no problem, good red wine and cheeses, french baguette, and flowers for the lady, if lady there is....   I am quite sure that i will not like very much these focal speakers with naim, so each person can also bring his speakers.....After some wine and adjustments of the speakers, the op will be in heaven.

There's only one thing missing…..the OP!

nigelb posted:

There's only one thing missing…..the OP!

Perhaps he's too busy rediscovering music...

With no peep from the OP in over a week, he/she is either on holiday, or too busy trying the things suggested, or so bemused by the responses that he has gone into seclusion to allow her/his head to recover, or has no real interest and is laughing at the activity it generated. 

I wonder if/when we will learn which...

Who cares .... it was clearly not a genuine post from the outset and was a complete wind up.

Not sure if this is what is usually referred to as a Troll

Mr Frog posted:

Who cares .... it was clearly not a genuine post from the outset and was a complete wind up.

Not sure if this is what is usually referred to as a Troll

I would still premit yourself a smidgen of a chance that you can be mistaken